# Hey, BlackKnight, ya cheap fuck! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592 "2003-05-07T04:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/181 "2003-05-08T05:28:05Z")
> [@](#): > > See, that right there is what’s wrong with the service industry and some of the people that work in it. That’s fucked up that you would lie to your manager about giving lousy service because you think someone is going to stiff. You should at least be honest and own up to the reason why you gave such lousy service. Then we’ll see how long you’ll keep your job. It’s probably my fault, but I stated this as a hypothetical situation, not as how _I_ actually acted when I waited tables. When I actually worked waiting tables, when someone came in that I knew for fact didn’t tip, I never intentionally gave bad service. I also, however, wouldn’t give them great service. They’d get what they paid for, i.e., the bare minimum. I took their order, brought em their food (when it was still hot), came back to see if they needed anything else/if their order was correct/cooked to satisfaction, etc. I, however, would be damned if I was doing more than I had to at that table. The extra service, I saved for people who deserved it, i.e., the people who appreciated the fact that I bust my fucking ass for them and tip accordingly. “You want extra salad dressing? Sure, no problem!” Then you can wait while I go get the drink order for that table, put the apps in for that table, order dessert for that table, and get menus for that table. Then, when I’ve taken care of the customers that take care of me, I’ll be more than happy to bring you your extra dressing. You get what you pay for. Pay for great service, you get it. Stiff a waitress of an establishment you frequent, don’t expect me to drop what I’m doing to do extra stuff for you. ---
**Author:** ![Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Star_to_the_Right)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/182 "2003-05-08T06:10:19Z")
Okay. Other people are on fixed incomes. Other people are college students. These are not unique situations. I’d wager that most, if not all, of the people who have posted in this thread thus far know what it is like to be on a budget. I know I do. But. That is not the server’s fault. Why should they get screwed because you can’t/won’t cough up a few extra dollars to PAY THEM FOR THEIR SERVICE, WHICH IS HOW THEY MAKE THEIR LIVING? Tipping is part of the cost of dining out. It is UNACCEPTABLE AND RUDE to tip “when you can”. As Cerri pointed out, if you don’t leave a tip, your server is essentially paying you to eat there, and paying to wait on you. As for the whole “well if you don’t like the tipping system, bitch to your manager” attitude. A lot of people don’t like the system. I’m not a huge fan of it, if only because of ignorant asshats who still seem to think tipping is optional. But it’s not likely to change anytime soon. Get over it. I second the tip(heh) not to become a regular at places if you frequently do not tip. People do remember. Trust me. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/183 "2003-05-08T06:20:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Second Star to the Right \* > **But. > That is not the server’s fault.** By the same token, it is not the customer’s fault that serving staff are paid a substandard wage and effectively expected to make up the difference on their own. If tipping is part of the bill, put it on the bill up front. If it is left to the customer’s discretion, get used to not always getting a tip, regardless of the quality of service. It’s not like people didn’t know that going into such a line of work, is it? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/184 "2003-05-08T06:20:52Z")
The solution to all of this is for the restaurant owners to pay the staff more. It’s about time that it happened. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/185 "2003-05-08T06:24:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cerri \* > \*\*Wrong. When I have to pay taxes based on what you bought, when you don’t tip, you, point in fact, are taking money out of my pocket. Otherwise known as stealing. May be legal theft, but there it is. \*\* I am truly impressed that you can say that. Thank you for being honest about how you see this. Needless to say, I disagree. I am not taking money from you. If I did, I would have extra money after you serve me. I don’t. I don’t make any money whatsoever from the transaction. How can I be stealing from you if I don’t have any more money after the “theft” than before? If not tipping is theft, then surely tipping is extortion: pay me money, or else. (As several people in this thread have said, beware the scorned waitperson.) Look, I hate to sound unsympathetic, but the fact is that you chose the job you are in. There are other jobs with guaranteed wage levels which require relatively equal or even less skills than waiting tables. If a guaranteed wage level is something you desire, there are options available. If waiting tables is something you choose to do regardless, then you’re going to have to accept the fact that it does not guarantee you a specific wage. ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/186 "2003-05-08T07:04:56Z")
What I get from this thread is, if I can’t affort to tip a prostitute, I can’t afford to eat her out. ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/187 "2003-05-08T07:05:57Z")
- afford. ---
**Author:** ![Liz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/liz/32/17737_2.png) [@Liz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liz)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/188 "2003-05-08T07:30:19Z")
::snorts with laughter:: ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/189 "2003-05-08T08:04:35Z")
I think the fact that most restaurants DO add a 12-15% gratuity charge to tables of 6-8 or more (depending on restaurants), DOES in fact, prove that no, tipping isn’t really optional. And for the record, I DO think there should just be a service charge added to each and every bill. Doesn’t mean the system’s changing anytime soon. Look, you technically have the right not to tip. I likewise have the right to think you’re a rude, cheap, ignorant piece of shit for not doing so, especially when I’ve done my damndest to make your eating/drinking experience a pleasant one. It’s a slap in my face when you don’t. As for those people who say they shouldn’t have to tip since they can’t afford to, let me relate you a story. I worked a family-type, fairly inexpensive restaurant in the downtown Chicago Loop. There was a homeless guy who’d come in about once a week, order the cheapest special and a cup of coffee, and pay in crumpled up dollar bills and piles of change. He ALWAYS left whatever waitress waited on him at least 50 cents and a folded paper napkin rose. If a homeless guy can tip at least something, so can you. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/190 "2003-05-08T08:07:29Z")
T = To I = Insure P = Proper S = Service ---
**Author:** ![Madawc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@Madawc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madawc)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/191 "2003-05-08T08:27:06Z")
so if non-homeless people tipped you 50 cents and a folded paper napkin rose, you’d be all happy? I think not, you’d probably think they’re cheap-asses for the 50 cent tip and a crappy joke of origami. Sure the homeless guy would tip 50cents, but you know that he’s financially on hard times and that the 50cents to him means a big deal, therefore, it means that much more to you. If a business man came in giving you 50cent tip, you’d piss in his coffee and then some. Nice try with your story, but I don’t buy it… ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/192 "2003-05-08T08:28:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cerri \* > \*\*T = To > I = Insure > P = Proper > S = Service \*\* [Try again.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_333.html) > [@](#): > > The dullest and most likely has it coming from the Latin stips, meaning “gift.” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/193 "2003-05-08T09:25:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cerri \* > **I think the fact that most restaurants DO add a 12-15% gratuity charge to tables of 6-8 or more (depending on restaurants), DOES in fact, prove that no, tipping isn’t really optional.** So a gratuity (“something given voluntarily”) isn’t optional? Erm, did you post that with a straight face? By the way, over here I can deduct from the bill any service charge they include at my discretion. Can’t you do that in the US too? ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/194 "2003-05-08T09:27:00Z")
It is, however, a euphemism, used frequently in the service industry 😉 And you missed the REST of that article, **Garfield226**. > [@](#): > > The most charming explanation refers us back to the days of Dr. Johnson and his eighteenth century circle of wits. Upon entering his local coffeeshop for a session of epigram-flinging, Dr. Johnson (or rather, one presumes, his flunky, Mr. Boswell) would drop a few pence in a box labeled “To Insure Promptness” (“T.I.P.”–get it?) in order to encourage a greater display of vigor on the part of the generally listless attendants. Cecil also mentioned this tidbit, which is what we’ve been trying to drill into people’s heads: > [@](#): > > These days, of course, taxi drivers and waitpersons depend on tips for a substantial part of their income. If you didn’t tip, presumably they’d expect to be paid more, and your restaurant bills and taxi fares would consequently be higher. The fifteen percent standard is mostly a question of what the market will bear. In New York, the figure these days is twenty percent; European restaurants generally add a ten percent gratuity to the bill As for **Madawc** , it goes without saying if someone in a business suit did that who could obviously afford a decent tip, I’d be irked, you obviously didn’t read what preceded it. That story was directed at people who said even though they go out, if they can’t afford to tip, they shouldn’t have to. My point, as stated above, was that if you really honestly can’t afford to tip, at least making an effort to do so, makes me think you’re not an asshole. That being said, I’m done with this thread. To you Mr. Pinks out there, just remember, Karma is a bitch. I’m always amazed at people who treat the people who handle their food like shit. You do realize they’re handling your food, right? The Mr. Pinks out there are why I: a) overtip b) no longer work waiting tables. That’s why I went back to dancing. Tits and ass, for some reason, people are ALWAYS willing to tip to see 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/195 "2003-05-08T09:31:34Z")
Ok, one last time, then I’m really done. > [@](#): > > So a gratuity (“something given voluntarily”) isn’t optional? > > Erm, did you post that with a straight face? > > By the way, over here I can deduct from the bill any service charge they include at my discretion. Can’t you do that in the US too? To the best of my knowledge, no you can’t refuse the added gratuity on a large party in the US, you do however, have the right to refuse to eat there. The added gratuity for large party is always posted on the menus. In the US, usually for parties of 6-8 or more depending on restaurant, gratuity charge is automatically added to the bill. When the restaurant has this policy, they ALWAYS post said policy directly on the menu. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/196 "2003-05-08T09:35:14Z")
For what it’s worth: [http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.htm](http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.htm) Yes, tipping really is optional. When restaurants automatically add gratuity charges to large groups (which I certainly have no problem with them doing) then they are no longer tips. If they want to do this for every meal, good for them. But until and unless they do, tipping is optional and you have no right to call anybody else an ignorant piece of shit for opting not to spend their money on you. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/197 "2003-05-08T09:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cerri \* > \*\*That being said, I’m done with this thread. To you Mr. Pinks out there, just remember, Karma is a bitch. I’m always amazed at people who treat the people who handle their food like shit. \*\* What’s with all the hyperbole? We’re discussing not tipping. We are not discussing treating people like shit. If you honestly think that not being tipped reaches the level of being treated like shit, then there’s not much I can say except that “being treated like shit” means very, very different things to us. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/198 "2003-05-08T09:46:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cerri \* > \*\*It is, however, a euphemism, used frequently in the service industry 😉 And you missed the REST of that article, **Garfield226**. \*\* I most certainly did NOT miss the rest of the article. I merely pointed out that that was NOT the correct derivation of the word, and whether you like the cutesy story or not has no bearing on where the word comes from. You’ve been given two independent sources explaining that now, please do not perpetuate this ignorance further. And in regards to what you’ve “been trying to drill into people’s heads” that Cecil said, I think what we’ve been trying to drill into your head is that THAT’S WHAT WE’D PREFER. At least, that’s what I’d prefer. I’d prefer to pay a bit more for my dinner and know that my waitperson was being paid a living wage and not have to worry about tipping. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/199 "2003-05-08T10:20:37Z")
**Garfield,** if someone is rude and unpleasant to me when they sit down at the bar, I do not expect them to tip me, because rude and unpleasant people are generally very poor or nonexistent tippers. And even if they aren’t, I don’t really want their money badly enough to put up with their unpleasantness. (See my previous post about the great tipper with the bad attitude. I meant it.) So if you are rude and unpleasant when you order your coffee, I don’t really care if you tip me on it; I just don’t want to deal with you. There will be plenty of other pleasant people with lovely demeanors and bigger wallets to take your place, both while you are there and when you are gone. See, the thing is, bad tippers and mean people are the minority at my bar, and I intend to keep it that way. And if that means ignoring these people til they go away, I’ll do it. Sure, tips aren’t mandatory; neither is alcohol. You don’t have to tip me; I don’t have to serve you. Get the picture? So feel free to be rude and unpleasant, as often as you like; feel free to stiff every waiter you encounter. Don’t tip your bartender, don’t tip your barber, don’t tip anybody. Don’t part with a single red fucking cent that isn’t mandatory by law. That’s your right as an American. God, isn’t it great to live in a country where you don’t _have_ to tip anyone! And for those of you on fixed incomes, college students, etc…that goes for you, too. And you’re right about the fact that people in the service industry “signed up” for it knowing that they wouldn’t always make a steady paycheck. And that people would stiff them. And that certain customers would always want great service for free. And that there are a lot of assholes out there who take advantage of the fact that tipping isn’t mandatory, by stiffing their server just because they can. Because it’s so important to eat out to these people that they don’t mind screwing someone out of money, and they’ll use any excuse they can. “It isn’t in the menu price. It isn’t mandatory. I don’t have to tip. Fuck off. I just have enough money for the food. I don’t have any extra for your service. Make your two bucks an hour, you moron. You signed up for this! You _deserve_ this because you can’t get a real job! Take it up with your boss and see if I care! Nanny-nanny-boo-boo! I win!” Sure, servers are briefed on all this. Doesn’t make you a better person for doing it. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/200 "2003-05-08T10:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So if you are rude and unpleasant when you order your coffee, I don’t really care if you tip me on it; I just don’t want to deal with you. There will be plenty of other pleasant people with lovely demeanors and bigger wallets to take your place, both while you are there and when you are gone. > > See, the thing is, bad tippers and mean people are the minority at my bar, and I intend to keep it that way. And if that means ignoring these people til they go away, I’ll do it. Sure, tips aren’t mandatory; neither is alcohol. You don’t have to tip me; I don’t have to serve you. Get the picture? So you will only serve people who YOU assume to be good tippers? You’re a gold digger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592.md?page=11)