# Hey, BlackKnight, ya cheap fuck! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592 "2003-05-07T04:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/221 "2003-05-08T12:56:32Z")
My God, you’re an idiot. I give up. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/222 "2003-05-08T12:58:43Z")
WARNING! WARNING! IRONY-METER OVERLOADING! DANGER! DANGER BLACKKNIGHT! (I’ll note that this is the third time you’ve said you’re leaving the thread. Dare I hope you mean it this time?) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/223 "2003-05-08T13:01:06Z")
**BlackKnight** -how do you feel, then, that the waiter or waitress has to pay taxes on what you didn’t give him or her? How do you feel that tips are basically how they make their living? How do you feel that you’ve just cheated someone out of something they depend on to make their living? Yeah, it’s voluntary. But then, like I said, it’s also voluntary to be a decent, considerate human being. Don’t like it? Well, too bad. There’s a lot of things I don’t like. Suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/224 "2003-05-08T13:11:42Z")
I don’t feel much at all. I assume they were not forced into that particular job. The chances of that being the only job they can possibly find is very, very small. They are guaranteed minimum wage regardless of my actions. I have not cheated anyone out of anything. They know the rules, and knew them when they took the job. I have not hornswaggled them. I haven’t swindled them. I haven’t conned them. I haven’t cheated them. They don’t like it? There’s a lot of things I don’t like. (Such as being out of the running for decent human being because I don’t tip 100% of the time.) They can suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![smam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/46a35a/32.png) [@smam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/225 "2003-05-08T13:14:55Z")
Tipping/China, hey that was funny, you should tip the guy who wrote it:) Whoever said they would spit on the food of a non-tipper they are a fucking degenerate. the great [Should America Tip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3391680#post3391680) has started. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/226 "2003-05-08T13:17:20Z")
I brought up spitting. I didn’t say anyone should-in fact, they should NOT. However, there are some who will, and it’s a risk you take. I do not condone it, and I would fire someone if I were a boss who caught an employee doing that. However, if someone was a repeat customer who never tipped, I’d probably eventually ask them not to come back. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/227 "2003-05-08T13:18:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I brought up spitting. I didn’t say anyone should-in fact, they should NOT. > > . \*\* I hope that’s a typo… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/228 "2003-05-08T13:19:55Z")
What’s a typo? I said people shouldn’t do it, but it happens. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Jessity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jessity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jessity)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/229 "2003-05-08T13:22:52Z")
Uh, Guin? You’ve been whooshed, I do believe. Think about it. Spitting. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/230 "2003-05-08T13:25:04Z")
Oh. Dammit. Sorry, I’m really nervous this morning. ---
**Author:** ![smam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/46a35a/32.png) [@smam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/231 "2003-05-08T13:25:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* > > I do not condone it, and I would fire someone if I were a boss who caught an employee doing that. However, if someone was a repeat customer who never tipped, I’d probably eventually ask them not to come back. \*\* If you were the owner and this guy spent a hundred dollars a week or more, wouldn’t you rather just pay your staff a little bonus? Cos lets face it , the staff would know where your Porsche Boxster came from. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/232 "2003-05-08T13:27:07Z")
If he was screwing over my staff, then he wasn’t worth it. If he was being a jerk, I can do without him. I would probably hope to pay my staff the minimum wage. However, I was pointing out in this case, that I would fire an employee who tampered with a customer’s food, and that I would not tolerate jerks who screw over the staff. What’s wrong with that? ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/233 "2003-05-08T13:54:35Z")
I don’t understand the logic behind not tipping because you can’t afford it. The food is cheap enough for you to afford it _because_ of the tipping system. If no one had to tip, the food would be more expensive, and according to some people, any increase in the price would be too much because they only have exactly the amount the food costs. Essentially, people who do this are relying on other people to tip, because if the majority of people did not tip, the price would go up and they wouldn’t be able to eat there at all. If you want food prices to stay low, you have to tip - or rely on others to tip for you. I don’t have a problem for not tipping if your service is truly bad. But to me, not tipping because you can’t afford it, knowing full well the type of restaurant and the prices before you get your bill, even when you have good service, is wrong. I don’t know what else to call it - _someone_ has to pay that waitress, if you don’t do it despite using her services, then others have to subsidize your non-payment. You don’t have to make a profit for it to be stealing - if you don’t pay someone for services provided, that’s stealing their services. If she doesn’t provide that service because she sucks as a waitress, don’t pay her. But if she does the job and you still don’t pay her - what else would you call it? It is not anyone’s _right_ to eat at a certain restaurant. And yes, I do know what it’s like to eat Ramen (or nothing) for weeks because you can’t afford anything else. I didn’t deserve to eat anywhere. I’m not saying that if you don’t tip once or twice you are an evil person. I think if it is your policy that you deserve to eat in restaurants when you know you cannot afford to tip, you’re a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![deball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@deball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deball)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/234 "2003-05-08T14:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BlackKnight \* > **I have not cheated anyone out of anything. They know the rules, and knew them when they took the job. I have not hornswaggled them. I haven’t swindled them. I haven’t conned them. I haven’t cheated them.** So you’re saying, “I’m not tipping and if they don’t like it, they shouldn’t have been a server to begin with.” No, you haven’t cheated anyone. All you’ve done is shown a sore lack of basic character. It’s a rare day indeed when someone _forgets_ to leave a tip after a meal. I don’t buy it for a second. Intentionally stiffing a waitperson, even after good service, now that’s another story. I’ll buy that, you can admit it. Also, you can take heart in the fact that you’re not alone, you can stand proud with your fellow cheapskates who feel the world should serve them. You too, can stand on the shoulders of the working class while you attend college. God knows they aren’t trying to better themselves. But, while you’re at it, perhaps your school offers a basic etiquette course. And, try some ethics courses while you’re at it. You may learn not to blame others for your own character flaws. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/235 "2003-05-08T14:05:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BlackKnight \* > **I assume they were not forced into that particular job.** You (and others) keep bringing this up like it’s a holy mantra. Playing the “responsibility” card. I’m just so sorry that someone put a gun to your head, forcing you to eat at a restaurant when you couldn’t afford it. Must suck to be the only person in the world that can’t make grown-up decisions for yourself. Garfield makes a good point – waitrons that assume a customer is a bad tipper often get the poor tips they deserve. Whenever I enter a restaurant, I go in expecting to leave 20-40% tip, depending on circumstances. And yet, I’ve gotten “the look” from waitrons, indicating that I look like a cheap bastard. And poor service to boot. Guess what happens to that tip? ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/236 "2003-05-08T14:37:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by deball \* > **So you’re saying, "I’m not tipping and if they don’t like it, they shouldn’t have been a server to begin with."** I’m saying that working as a waitperson does not entitle you to tips. > [@](#): > > **It’s a rare day indeed when someone _forgets_ to leave a tip after a meal. I don’t buy it for a second.** Oh goody, yet another person calling me a liar. Must be my lucky day. > [@](#): > > **Intentionally stiffing a waitperson, even after good service, now that’s another story.** Not only is it another story, it’s another thread topic altogether. > [@](#): > > **You too, can stand on the shoulders of the working class while you attend college.** You caught me. My plan to enslave the lower classes is revealed. You’re far too clever. Indeed, I never suspected that one of _you_ would be so clever. What gave me away as one of the upperclass oppressors? My brandname (Levi) jeans? My second pair of shoes? The car I drive which is three years younger than I am? > [@](#): > > **God knows they aren’t trying to better themselves. But, while you’re at it, perhaps your school offers a basic etiquette course. And, try some ethics courses while you’re at it.** Would they teach things like how not to call people pieces of shit? How not to imply that one is not a decent human being for not tipping 100% of the time? > [@](#): > > \*\*You may learn not to blame others for your own character flaws. \*\* I wish I had a witty reply for this, but quite frankly I can’t make heads or tails of it. What are you talking about here? ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/237 "2003-05-08T14:45:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > **You (and others) keep bringing this up like it’s a holy mantra.** I keep mentioning it because it keeps needing to be said. > [@](#): > > **I’m just so sorry that someone put a gun to your head, forcing you to eat at a restaurant when you couldn’t afford it.** Nobody did, nor did I in any way imply such a thing. The cases I thought we were discussing were where I _could_ afford to eat in the restaurant. The times I couldn’t, I didn’t go. > [@](#): > > **Must suck to be the only person in the world that can’t make grown-up decisions for yourself.** I suppose it must. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/238 "2003-05-08T15:35:38Z")
What a fucking train wreck!! Some of the statements made here make me want to stop tipping. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/239 "2003-05-08T16:38:23Z")
**BlackKnight** , I am guessing that by now you are starting to feel a little put upon, and I want to be 100% clear that I am not here to do that. Also, I want to be up front that there are some aspects of your posts (and others that do not tip from time to time) that I would like some clarification on, as I am not quite understanding a few things. For instance, you have stated numerous times that you forget to tip from time to time. I am willing to take that at face value, but would appreciate some clarification on the thought process that leads to this. It has been stated by others that tipping is a fundamental part of US dining customs. I seem to remember that have made allusions to the fact that you were somehow not exposed to this cultural norm (and forgive the lack of a specific quote, but his has been a long thread that I have read over a couple of days, and I do not have the heart to go through the whole thing again. If I have this wrong, my apologies), I am curious for some more details about this. Conversely, if this is not the case, and we are talking about straight up memory issues, I wonder if you can give other examples of cultural norms that you break because you forget to follow them. In a more generalized way, I guess that I would like to address the notion that has been posted by others that folks that don’t like waiting tables should just get another job with a guaranteed fixed hourly rate. I would respectfully suggest that we simply kick this notion to the curb, for several reasons. The fact is that in our current society, and the way that the system runs, restaurant service folks are not paid anything near a living wage by the business owners and that they rely on tips to meet basic subsistence needs. They don’t like it, and many of you do not like it either. As an aside, the minimum wage is also not anywhere near a living wage and so I do not give points for that being a given. Another fact is that our society seems to need these folks. Granted, it is a luxury, but people do want to go out and eat a reasonably priced meal from time to time. The reason that they meal that you eat is so reasonably priced is because management is saving a lot of money on labor. The final fact that I want to point out is that many, many people wait tables because it is the only thing that they can do. Either because they need the flexibility that the food industry offers schedule wise (college students, single parents, what have you) or they simply do not have skills to do anything else. I guess that one of the ways that I tend to look at this is that if we are not paying these folks by tipping when we avail ourselves of their service, we (as a society) will pay in other ways (more folks on the welfare rolls, food stamps or (if those programs fail) added crime and other problems associated with a surge in homelessness). ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592/240 "2003-05-08T17:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > **The final fact that I want to point out is that many, many people wait tables because it is the only thing that they can do.** True. And there are some people that really enjoy it, and make a career out of it, and really like to hustle for those good tips. I imagine that these people like to earn a living wage for what they do, and be appreciated for their hard work. It must be extremely frustrating to work your ass off and excel at your job only to be stiffed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-blackknight-ya-cheap-fuck/173592.md?page=13)