# Hey Brits - Where's the The? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2001, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714 "2001-08-17T12:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/41 "2001-08-20T02:07:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*In other words, school or hospital becomes descriptive of the function rather than the place. > > There’s a similar ont that works the other way around; > Americans often seem to say “a couple boxes of nails”, whereas Brits usually say “a couple **of** boxes of nails” \*\* I think the ‘of’ in ‘a couple of boxes of nails’ is a semi-meaningless space-filler. Would you say ‘two **of** boxes of nails’? I know this isn’t quite the same thing, but in a sense it is similar. “A couple boxes of nails” and “a couple of boxes of nails” are correct. I can understand both, and I’ll bet most other people can. _I_ never say “go to hospital”, but I understand what is meant. I can even guess at the idea that “to hospital” refers to being admitted as a patient rather than just visiting. PS. If anyone thinks I am wrong about of not being necessary, I have this to say: :p. Seriously though, give it some thought before you write back bashing my interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/42 "2001-08-20T04:11:09Z")
A British housewife (upper class, I suppose) seems to discuss tonight’s dinner with “Cook.” An American housewife might discuss it with “The Cook.” ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/43 "2001-08-20T05:05:55Z")
This isn’t exactly on topic, but it’s already wandered so much I feel no guilt. Are there tank tops in Britain, and if so, what do you call them? On this side of the pond we use this term to refer to “a sleeveless collarless shirt with usually wide shoulder straps and no front opening,” according to [Merriam Webster](http://www.m-w.com/). I bring this up, because I was taken aback by the imagery [this BBC article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1498000/1498997.stm) suggested: > [@](#): > > **Boris Yeltsin, then president of the Russian Federation, whose tank-top protest at the White House became the defining image of the coup…** ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/44 "2001-08-20T05:43:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sjc \* > \*\* > I think the ‘of’ in ‘a couple of boxes of nails’ is a semi-meaningless space-filler. \*\* But “couple of” is British and Australian, and that means it’s RIGHT, dammit! Actually, **sjc** , you have a very good point. Damn Americans having to go and be logical… 😃 This thread gets more complicated with every post. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doug Bowe \* > \*\* A British housewife (upper class, I suppose) seems to discuss tonight’s dinner with “Cook.” > > An American housewife might discuss it with “The Cook.” \*\* …whereas an Aussie housewife (or househusband in my case) might think, “Geez, there’s nothing to eat. I’d better go to the supermarket!” Seriously, the dropping of the “the” in the situation **Doug Bowe** mentions is a snobbery which grates on my ears. My local council (municipal government) describes themselves in the third person in this manner: “Council has decided …”, and “Council is going to…” in all their correspondence with me. What’s wrong with “the Council”, or even “we”? It’s as though they are awarding themselves godlike status. Just one of my pet peeves… So, thus far it seems to my understanding that the British usage of “hospital” without the article “the” is the better one as it provides more clarity, and the American “couple” without the “of” is sensible, simpler and more efficient (and I quite like the way it sounds). Anyone care to disagree? It sounds like high time we started a global SDMB official version of English. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/45 "2001-08-20T11:02:06Z")
An American will fill **out** a form, whereas a Brit might fill **in** a form. ---
**Author:** ![fierra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@fierra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fierra)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/46 "2001-08-20T13:10:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*OTOH the British refer to “sport” rather than “sports”, which kind of blows the multiple-varieties theory out of the water. \*\* But we’d say scholl sports day, rather than school sport day & there definitely would be more than one type of even there. ---
**Author:** ![fierra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@fierra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fierra)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/47 "2001-08-20T13:12:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fierra \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > > \*\*OTOH the British refer to “sport” rather than “sports”, which kind of blows the multiple-varieties theory out of the water. \*\* > > But we’d say scholl sports day, rather than school sport day & there definitely would be more than one type of even there. \*\* And we might even spell it correctly too. Sorry “school”. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/48 "2001-08-20T13:20:56Z")
Interesting addendum to “maths” vs “math” Mathematics indeed used to have many different facets. However work done on group theory in the 1960s and 70s essentially unified the theory - a GUT of maths, if you like. At that time, the French changed their word from “les mathematiques” to “la mathematique” - in other words they “singularised” it. [Here](http://www.francophonie.hachette-livre.fr/) is a French dictionary. Type “mathematiques” and “mathematique” and see what you get. I note that bizarrely enough most French-English dictionaries (eg [Babelfish](http://babelfish.altavista.com/)) seem to persist with “les mathematiques”. But personally I prefer to trust an actual French dictionnaire and my French mathematician mate in this matter. Anyway, by the French logic, both the Merkins AND the Brits have it wrong - it should be “mathematic” not “mathematics”. But our US cousins are more correct than we are - at least their abbreviation is appropriate. I still say “maths” though. pan ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/49 "2001-08-20T16:07:52Z")
Continuing the trend towards digression, I note that Rickjay originated a thread elsewhere in which I see the term ‘East Indians’. Is this a standard US term for those people from the country of India, used to distinguish them from inhabitants of the West Indies? UK usage is ‘Indians’ and ‘West Indians’ respectively, although if we know the island of origin in the latter case we might say ‘Jamaican’ or similar. ---
**Author:** ![Servo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Servo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Servo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/50 "2001-08-20T17:15:04Z")
He might be trying to distinguish between Indians and Native Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Tretiak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Tretiak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tretiak)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/51 "2001-08-20T17:57:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xanakis \* > \*\*Also American say “I could care less” whereas the British say “I couldnt care less”. > > I think the British version is more correct here grammatically. The idea is to express the fact that you REALLY dont care about the object/person/whatever. > > If you REALLY dont care then saying “I could care less” implies that you have more care than necessary - it is possible to care even less. > > Saying “I couldnt care less” shows that you dont care at all - it would not be possible to have less care than you do. \*\* I always rationalized “I could care less” to imply “If I wasn’t already at the absolute bottom of the caring scale then I could care less, but alas but I am already at my lack of caring potential.” ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/52 "2001-08-20T18:37:45Z")
**ZipperJJ** , I can confirm that dropping ‘the’ in front of words like ‘mill’ is a regional thing. Were you watching Monty Python’s _Meaning of Life_? Michael Palin’s “…trouble at t’mill…” announcement to his family before Every Sperm is Sacred is a good example, but the whole scene is a parody of life in Victorian Yorkshire. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dqa \* > Are there tank tops in Britain, and if so, what do you call them? On this side of the pond we use this term to refer to “a sleeveless collarless shirt with usually wide shoulder straps and no front opening,” according to Merriam Webster. I don’t think we’d use ‘tank-top’ in the Boris Yeltsin sense very often (let’s face it, so few people stand on items of military transportation these days), but it’s meaning is obvious in context. Lots of equipment would be called a ‘desk-top’ (or desktop) model, or a laptop etc. either in Britain or America. We do have clothing called tank tops, but they’re sleeveless sweaters over here. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*An American will fill **out** a form, whereas a Brit might fill **in** a form. \*\* I seem to be the only person left here who still _fills forms **in** _, Coldy, everyone else has started _filling them **out** _. Get’s on my nerves. [hijack] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > Anyway, by the French logic, both the **Merkins** AND the Brits have it wrong … interesting word to use for your fellow countrymen, BTW :). [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/53 "2001-08-20T19:34:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > > Anyway, by the French logic, both the **Merkins** AND the Brits have it wrong … > > interesting word to use for your fellow countrymen, BTW :).\*\* kabbes has got the strangest Merkin accent I’ve ever heard 😉 ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/54 "2001-08-20T21:20:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*kabbes has got the strangest Merkin accent I’ve ever heard 😉 \*\* For a minute I thought you meant he lisped whenever he crossed his legs (!), but I checked his profile and can see my mistake now - sorry **kabbes** , mate. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2001, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/55 "2001-08-21T08:57:01Z")
That’s OK. Just call me a man of the world. pan ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2001, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714/56 "2001-08-21T09:42:49Z")
One that I still notice and only seem to come across on US network news is: “President Bush said in Washington, Wednesday…” rather than “Tony Blair said in London **on** Wednesday…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-brits-wheres-the-the/76714.md?page=2)