# Hey! Bush likes gay people after all! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 26, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275 "2004-10-26T18:31:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/1 "2004-10-26T18:31:34Z")
[See?](http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/102604bushMarr.htm) > [@](#): > > President George W. Bush has softened his approach to same-sex unions as he makes his final bid to reach out to moderate voters in the final days of the campaign. > > Tuesday morning Bush told ABC’s Charles Gibson that he would support civil unions but remains opposed to gay marriage. > > In an exclusive interview on Good Morning America Bush said that traditional marriage must be preserved. But, for the first time has added a qualifier. > > “I view the definition of marriage difference from legal arrangements that enable people to have rights. And I strongly believe that marriage ought to be defined as between, a union between a man and a woman,” Bush said. “Now, having said that, states ought to be able to have the right to pass … laws that enable people to you know, be able to have rights, like others.” > > \ > > The president said he would leave the issue of civil unions to the states, but said he also would not be opposed to granting some of the federal rights and responsibilities of marriage to gay couples. He also says he’s now open to the idea that sexual orientation isn’t a choice. I’m sure it’s a complete coincidence that Bush has had this epiphany one week to the day before an election in which the estimated million gay votes he got in 2000, and which if those voters have the sense God gave a woodpecker he’s lost, could be the difference between victory and defeat in swing states with sizable gay populations like Wisconsin, Minnesota and Florida. I’m 100% confident that Bush’s heart and mind have actually opened and that he now truly understands the depth of discrimination against gay people in the realm of marital rights in the United States. Words largely fail me. I would say the man has no shame but it’s been obvious for the last decade that he has no shame. I would say that I’m surprised at the depths to which he will sink but compared to some of his other tactics this is strictly shallow end of the pool. I’d wonder aloud how stupid he thinks Americans are but it’s clear that he thinks Americans are very stupid indeed. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/2 "2004-10-26T18:33:02Z")
Wow. All this time I’d been cynical about “compassionate conservatism.” Now, just a week before the election, I’m starting to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/3 "2004-10-26T18:43:33Z")
It saddens me to have to make this partisan a comment but, as with “the reason why we went into Iraq,” that’s **this month’s stance**. Attn: White House observers reviewing this board for potential evidence of sedition: The American people have a mediocre but serviceable memory. They can remember what was said by the President and Administration leaders last month or even two or three months ago. There’s a **big** difference between what Mr. Bush said in those remarks and the Constitutional Amendment he was supporting quite recently that would ban gay marriages and civil unions nationally. Forgive me for saying this, but if the National Weather Service was a part of the Executive Office under **this** Administration, I’d go everywhere equipped with a parka **and** SPF-60 sunscreen, because I wouldn’t be able to credit a word they say. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/4 "2004-10-26T18:47:28Z")
I need clarification. Is Bush on the record for opposing civil union for gays? (I appologize for my ignorance) ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/5 "2004-10-26T18:50:43Z")
I don’t think Bush and Rove are attempting to sway the majority of gay voters. That’s a lost cause and they know it. I think they’re trying to sway people like me; genuine Republicans who are appalled that any President, let alone a Repulican President, would dare limit personal freedoms and usurp States’ rights by way of a Constitutional amendment. At least, that’s my theory. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/6 "2004-10-26T18:57:19Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > I need clarification. > > Is Bush on the record for opposing civil union for gays? (I appologize for my ignorance) It’s rumored that the Federal Marriage Amendment could’ve been used to block Civil Unions. However, Bush did sign a law allowing domestic partners in Washington D.C. the right to register their relationships. (Pg 130 of the US Civil Rights Report, draft report 2001-2004 on the Bush Administration. To see the full report and my BBQ thread about it, follow this[link.)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282413) ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/7 "2004-10-26T18:57:23Z")
If I may, Like **grienspace** , I could use some clarification. What is _Kerry’s_ stance on gay marriages - or gay civil unions? [I think I know Bush’s thoughts ☹] And my apologies for my ignorance as well. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/8 "2004-10-26T19:01:12Z")
> [@gum](#): > > If I may, Like **grienspace** , I could use some clarification. > > What is _Kerry’s_ stance on gay marriages - or gay civil unions? [I think I know Bush’s thoughts ☹] > > And my apologies for my ignorance as well. Kerry’s agin gay marriage, but pro-civil unions. He also doesn’t regard gay people as diseased sinners, so that puts him one up on Dubya. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/9 "2004-10-26T19:06:26Z")
Originally posted by **gobear** > [@](#): > > \*Kerry’s agin gay marriage, but pro-civil unions. He also doesn’t regard gay people as diseased sinners, so that puts him one up on Dubya. \* Yes it does. Thanks, **gobear** and good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/10 "2004-10-26T19:06:35Z")
Mr. Bush is on record as supporting the proposed FMA which included language refusing the rights appurtenant to marriage to any union not comprised of one man and one woman – somebody can post the exact language. That’s why I said what I did, **grienspace**. Although bluntly, sir, and I apologize if this offends anyone, I had formerly had quite a bit of respect for him as a man who seemed to be acting out of deep-seated convictions that did not quite match my own, but lately he’s been acting like he’ll say whatever will win him the most votes, and that negated the respect I did have for him. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/11 "2004-10-26T19:07:03Z")
> [@gum](#): > > If I may, Like **grienspace** , I could use some clarification. > > What is _Kerry’s_ stance on gay marriages - or gay civil unions? [I think I know Bush’s thoughts ☹] > > And my apologies for my ignorance as well. Kerry’s against the ammendment (which would ban gay marriage and probably civil unions), but not for gay marriage _per se_. He favors the federalist approach, leaving it to the states to decide. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/12 "2004-10-26T19:07:54Z")
By the way, isn’t this another flip-flop? A good one mind you, but a flip flop none-the-less? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/13 "2004-10-26T19:09:11Z")
> [@caveman](#): > > Kerry’s against the ammendment (which would ban gay marriage and probably civil unions), but not for gay marriage _per se_. He favors the federalist approach, leaving it to the states to decide. Kerry did say he was for the Massachussettes amendment banning gay marriage. He has said that he’s been for (gay) civil unions that afford the same rights as marriage. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/14 "2004-10-26T19:09:27Z")
And thank _you_, **caveman** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/15 "2004-10-26T19:09:40Z")
Thay may put him one up on Bush _as a person_ --and I’m not willing to even concede _that_– but, at the end of the day, assuming Bush’s desire to amend the Constitution was simply pandering to the religious not-so-right, that puts them both in the same position, policy-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/16 "2004-10-26T19:13:18Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > I need clarification. > > Is Bush on the record for opposing civil union for gays? (I appologize for my ignorance) Bush’s administration is on record as stating that the individual states should decide the civil union issue, but that he would not support civil unions, were he still the governor of Texas. [Transcript of Scott McClellan’s statements.](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36216) > [@gum](#): > > What is Kerry’s stance on gay marriages - or gay civil unions? From [here](http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/workschool/p/JohnKerry.htm): > [@](#): > > On 2/24/04 after President Bush said he would endorse a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriages Kerry said, “I believe the best way to protect gays and lesbians is through civil unions. I believe the issue of marriage should be left to the states, and that the president of the United States should be adressing the central challenges where he has failed–jobs, health care, and our leadership in the world–rather than once again seeking to drive a wedge by toying with the United States Constitution for political purposes.” > On 2/27/04 Kerry said, in the Boston Globe about a Massachusetts amendment to ban same-sex marriage, “If the Massachusetts Legislature crafts an appropriate amendment that provides for partnership and civil unions, then I would support it, and it would advance the goal of equal protection.” He was referring only to the state constitution, not US Constitutional ban that Bush has endorsed. > > Kerry said he would only support the amendment if it made provisions for civil unions. “I think that you need to have civil union. That’s my position,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/17 "2004-10-26T19:15:07Z")
Anyone who plans to vote for Bush because of this “startling new” 11th-hour conversion deserves to have their hopes cruelly shattered when he reverts back to his previous hard-nosed stanced come November 3rd. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/18 "2004-10-26T19:17:35Z")
Thankyou **sir**. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/19 "2004-10-26T19:21:44Z")
And as Bush journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven. And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice that sounded vaguely like Judy Garland, saying unto him, Dubya, Dubya, why persecutest the gays? And Bush said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am those whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. Then Barney Frank went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on Bush said, Brother Dubya, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and began to redecorate and dance with his hands over his head. At least that’s the way I see it in my head… ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275/20 "2004-10-26T19:22:45Z")
Hey, I wonder if there’s a way we can wring a little more support for gay rights out of him before the election. You know, say to whoever you can contact in the campaign “Hmm… I like the direction Bush is moving but I’m not convinced. Maybe if he worked on a few other laws…” 😃 > [@Polycarp](#): > > Although bluntly, sir, and I apologize if this offends anyone, I had formerly had quite a bit of respect for him as a man who seemed to be acting out of deep-seated convictions that did not quite match my own, but lately he’s been acting like he’ll say whatever will win him the most votes, and that negated the respect I did have for him. If we were to assume that he is sincere, it is possible that he’s learned a little bit and is opening his mind. I used to be against gay-rights myself, but I slowly turned around after hearing what the gay people here had to say and meeting gay people in real life. I’m not sure if he’s sincere or not, but I’m willing to accept that he is unless there’s some evidence to the contrary. Still, it is too little too late. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bush-likes-gay-people-after-all/271275.md?page=2)