# Hey Catholics Don't send your daughters to College **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709 "2013-09-12T21:55:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/81 "2013-09-15T21:30:44Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > I would not call all their views outside the teachings of the Catholic Church, they do teach a woman is supposed to be obedient and submissive, the man being in charge. > . > . > . > I really encourage you to read this rather tedious wordy document, if any Catholic holds a romantic view of marriage, this will be a shock. Well, [here is a rating system for wives](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/1954587/Mark-your-wives-The-1930s-marriage-test.html) used by marriage counselers in 1939 to rate wives’ merits and lack thereof: demerits for wearing red nail polish, having the seams of her stockings crooked, and putting her cold feet on her husband at night to warm them; positive points for serving meals on time and letting her husband sleep late on days off. Is the lesson from this that 1930s society in general did not regard women and men as equal partners? I’d say it is. So why, **Icerigger** , does a similar document from the Catholic Church in the 1930s invite an inference that the Catholic Church still holds those views today? ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/82 "2013-09-15T23:13:42Z")
I don’t think George W Crane PhD, MD would believe he speaks with the authority of God. Bricker are you claiming Casti Connubii does not say what it says? Is Casti Connubii no longer binding on Catholics? Was it ever binding, if not when did it change? Is Humanae Vitae binding or just suggestions. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > You’re referring to _Casti Connubii_. That’s from around 1930, right? You could find plenty of non-Catholics, even atheists, who thought pretty much the same thing. > > The Church has gotten a bit better since then. And in any event, _Casti Connubii_ was an encyclical. A teaching letter. Not binding teaching of the Church. Again as with Bricker Casti says woman are required to be obedient and submissive to male authority, Is this no longer the case, when did it change? Encyclicals are not binding??? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/83 "2013-09-16T00:24:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So why, **Icerigger** , does a similar document from the Catholic Church in the 1930s invite an inference that the Catholic Church still holds those views today? If the RCC can’t manage a better batting average than society in general, what good are they? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/84 "2013-09-16T02:33:27Z")
As I understand it encyclicals get superceded by later pastoral documents and by changes in policy, and may be so tacitly rather than expliticly. The Vatican AFAIK in practice got over women having educations and careers a while ago, of course with the caveat of “as long as family duties come first”. (And also: careers and education for the individual is one issue, who wears the pants in the household is another; yes conceding the first makes it harder to justify sticking to the old line on the second but that’s someone else’s problem to justify) And BTW, those more familiar may tell me: does _Casti Connubi_ anywhere actually declare that it is \*sinful \*for the woman to get educated and have a career, as opposed to just “wrong”? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/85 "2013-09-16T03:39:14Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > I don’t think George W Crane PhD, MD would believe he speaks with the authority of God. Bricker are you claiming Casti Connubii does not say what it says? Is Casti Connubii no longer binding on Catholics? Was it ever binding, if not when did it change? Is Humanae Vitae binding or just suggestions. > > Again as with Bricker Casti says woman are required to be obedient and submissive to male authority, Is this no longer the case, when did it change? > > Encyclicals are not binding??? No, encyclicals are not binding. Certain statements in encyclicals may well express certain binding truths, but as a general proposition encyclicals are a teaching for their time as opposed to a definitive dogmatic decree. The vehicle for the Supreme Pontiff to pronounce some truth absolutely beyond question or further debate is the declaration that he is speaking _ex cathedra_. This is used so vanishingly rarely for the obvious reason that the Pope knows what is wise practice for one age may not be wise for another, and he does not confuse the issues of the moment with the holy, sacred, and unending truths revealed by God. When did “that time” end, you ask, that time that led to this business of women-as-second-class-spouses? Definitively by the Second Vatican Council’s Pastoral Constitution “Gaudium et Spes.” (And by the way: a Pastoral Constitution outranks a mere encyclical.) Also see the recognition in the encyclical “Pacem in Terris” issued by Pope John XXIII to the roles women are (then) beginning to take in public life. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/86 "2013-09-16T08:08:28Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If the RCC can’t manage a better batting average than society in general, what good are they? They have a perfect batting average when teaching about matters of sacred truth. When teaching about more secular matters of daily living, their ideas are no more lofty than the general run of mankind. The Church demanded Galileo admit he was wrong, and looks back on that with embarrassment. But the motion of planetary bodies is not where the Church has any more expertise than anyone with a telescope. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/87 "2013-09-16T09:44:56Z")
So the prohibition on birth control in both Casti and Humanae Vitae are not binding on Catholics? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/88 "2013-09-16T12:56:26Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > So the prohibition on birth control in both Casti and Humanae Vitae are not binding on Catholics? Maybe we should define what you mean by “binding.” For example, right now priests celebrate Mass when wearing certain vestments – liturgical garments. The requirement that they do so is “binding,” in the sense that that’s what the boss says to do. Tomorrow, the Pope could order that henceforth, priests celebrate Mass wearing a tuxedo, complete with top hat and tails. And that would then be “binding,” in the sense that this is what priests are then required to do. But neither discipline would be held out as sacred truth. I took “binding,” when you said it, to imply more of a universal, for-all-time, unchanging dogma. What do you mean when you say “binding?” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/89 "2013-09-16T15:01:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > They have a perfect batting average when teaching about matters of sacred truth. When teaching about more secular matters of daily living, their ideas are no more lofty than the general run of mankind. How handy. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/90 "2013-09-16T15:32:45Z")
If Catholic girls stop going to college, then someone will start questioning Catholic girls in high school. That way leads to a reduction in Catholic school girl uniforms. We can NOT have that. Now, back to our education of the masses on what is correctly and officially Catholic dogma/belief/etc. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/91 "2013-09-16T15:41:30Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > How handy. The Pope’s opinion on whether the Braves will win the National League Eastern Division this year is no more or less authoritative than mine. It’s not “handy,” but simply factual. The Church on Earth does not purport to be staffed with constantly unerring members at any level. It does prove useful when refuting persons such as yourself, who seem to believe that any mistake of fact from a priest, bishop, or Pontiff brings crashing down some magnificent fraud. That’s not the case, and never has been. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/92 "2013-09-16T16:26:39Z")
It’s interesting how we started with birth control and ended up on baseball. If someone claims to be divinely guided, then I expect them to be ahead of the curve across the board and not simply in matters of theological navel-gazing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/93 "2013-09-16T16:50:48Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > It’s interesting how we started with birth control and ended up on baseball. > If someone claims to be divinely guided, then I expect them to be ahead of the curve across the board and not simply in matters of theological navel-gazing. There’s no reason to harbor that expectation, especially in view of the explicit disclaimer that they offer you. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/94 "2013-09-16T20:38:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Catholic OB-GYN Dr. Kim Hardey notes that a woman is naturally very observant of a man’s faults as long as she is in a platonic relationship with him. Once she becomes sexually active with him, she releases hormones that mask his faults, and she remains in a dreamy state about him. I don’t think the women I’ve had relationships with got that memo… ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/95 "2013-09-16T21:30:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Maybe we should define what you mean by "binding. One can always tell when you are in trouble when you start in on the Clinton style definitional obfuscation, huh Bricker? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/96 "2013-09-16T21:53:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Pope’s opinion on whether the Braves will win the National League Eastern Division this year is no more or less authoritative than mine. Except that his prayers carry more weight with the Big Guy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/97 "2013-09-16T23:00:07Z")
Roman Catholicism has a long legalistic tradition. It’s a feature, not a bug.😉 > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Except that his prayers carry more weight with the Big Guy. 😉 Though this dude’s probably not a baseball but a soccer guy. And considering how Francis has been doing so far I wouldn’t put it past him to say something that the Fix The Family gang will find alarming (though it does not actually change anything as it exists) some time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/98 "2013-09-16T23:34:36Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > One can always tell when you are in trouble when you start in on the Clinton style definitional obfuscation, huh Bricker? Not at all. Unless you think that “binding,” has one clear meaning. I did, and by my lights, encyclicals are not binding. But the continued questions suggest that Icerigger may not agree with my definition. But if discussing the definition strikes you as “in trouble,” then we can return to: no, not binding. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/99 "2013-09-16T23:36:49Z")
Yes, the RCC has been well-known throughout history for making “recommendations”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709/100 "2013-09-17T01:04:07Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And considering how Francis has been doing so far I wouldn’t put it past him to say something that the Fix The Family gang will find alarming (though it does not actually change anything as it exists) some time soon. Wonder what they think of [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=702158)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-catholics-dont-send-your-daughters-to-college/668709.md?page=6)