# Hey Cerowyn! - Blow me **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203 "2002-12-03T13:28:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/1 "2002-12-03T13:28:52Z")
In this thread about banks: Cerowyn plotzes: > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > Originally posted by NutMagnet > Because of the ineptitude of most banks at doing the business they are suposed to be doing, like investing, they now make up the difference by gouging the very people whose funds they use. > > ## Banks are only slightly above insurance companies at the bottom of the food chain. > > Cool! :: rubbing hands :: So? Where’s the evidence? I’m so looking forward to finally seeing some real, hard facts here rather than some dumb shit parroting moronic prejudice about a subject they know less than nothing about. Whaddya got? Internal reports that demonstrate horrible waste? Details of horrible mistakes that cost billions of dollars? Evidence of a conspiracy to defraud the masses of people that are forced at gunpoint to use their services? > > Woohoo. You’re a fucking idiot. > [@](#): > > Cool! :: rubbing hands :: So? Where’s the evidence? I’m so looking forward to finally seeing some real, hard facts here From here: [http://www.pirg.org/consumer/banks/](http://www.pirg.org/consumer/banks/) > [@](#): > > Big Banks, Bigger ATM Fees: A Third PIRG National Survey of ATM Surcharging Rates Compared to PIRG’s 1997 report, overall surcharging by banks has increased 58%. An unprecedented 83% of big banks now surcharge. Big banks, which have the vast majority of all machines, impose higher surcharges, and surcharge at higher rates. and > [@](#): > > Senate Fails to Protect Consumers from Double Dipping ATM Surcharges. Statement of Ed Mierzwinski U.S. PIRG Consumer Program Director: “Consumers will continue to pay twice to use the ATM once, because too many U.S. Senators listened to their big bank campaign contributors instead of to the complaints of the American people about skyrocketing bank fees. How about from here: [http://www.msmoney.com/mm/banking/articles/bank\_moneysiphon.htm](http://www.msmoney.com/mm/banking/articles/bank_moneysiphon.htm) ? > [@](#): > > Six bucks a month for a checking account. Three bucks for every instance of overdraft protection covered by my savings account. > > It’s getting worse. Online banking, which I might as well do since I can’t visit with a live teller anyway, has increased competition within the banking industry–resulting in higher interest rates and lower bank fees. Brick-and-mortar banks, however, have yet to respond in kind. > > Instead of dropping fees and raising rates, they continue to do the opposite. According to [Bankrate.com](http://Bankrate.com)’s fifth semiannual checking account pricing survey, the interest checking account is just about the worst bank product available. And you have the nerve to say this about me: > [@](#): > > rather than some dumb shit parroting moronic prejudice about a subject they know less than nothing about. when you don’t know a fucking thing about me and you don’t know the first fucking thing about the subject, you moron. Maybe I’ve worked in banking? Maybe I’ve had some of the largest banks in the US as clients? Stick your comments up your ass. > [@](#): > > Internal reports that demonstrate horrible waste? Details of horrible mistakes that cost billions of dollars? What a piss poor excuse for a thought! What the fuck has that got to do with the treatment of their customers by the consumer banks? Who’s talking about the internal operations of banks? We’re talking about how the bank treats you, you asshole. > [@](#): > > Evidence of a conspiracy to defraud the masses of people that are forced at gunpoint to use their services? Who said there was a conspiracy, other than you, dipshit? As **SilentGoldfish** points out, (s)he has no choice but to use a bank. Just like the rest of us in the real world. So where’s your evidence you putz? Never had a bank ratchet up the fees while you weren’t paying attention? Never had an experience where you’ve gotten minimal interest on your deposits while being charged outlandish fees for what should be provided as a service? How do you justify $20 to certify a check? How much more does it cost the bank to give you a piece of paper guaranteeing to pay, than to give you the cash? You can buy cheques on the internet at $12.00 a thousand, but the bank wants $40.00? They all but crammed ATMs down our collective throats, mostly by being open only while **people are at work**. Now after ATMs have become a (welcome) way of life, and while saving the bank money… [http://www.nypirg.org/consumer/atm/2002/intro.htm](http://www.nypirg.org/consumer/atm/2002/intro.htm) > [@](#): > > ATMs save banks enormous amounts of money because there are no employees to pay and maintenance of an ATM is significantly less than that of a full-service branch. … the banks add fees. When the backlash to that practise was evidenced by people returning to teller service, banks alienated their customers again by attaching fees to full-service transactions. You see fuckwad? If you have ever been to a bank you would see **evidence** of these practices. I prefer you stay under your rock. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/2 "2002-12-03T13:40:03Z")
You’ve documented sufficiently that banks charge fees, but you have not documented your claim, which was that they are inept at investing and that the fees they charge are intended to mitigate their ineptitude. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/3 "2002-12-03T13:40:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NutMagnet \* > **Maybe I’ve worked in banking?** So, have you? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/4 "2002-12-03T13:58:39Z")
> [@](#): > > **Maybe I’ve worked in banking? Maybe I’ve had some of the largest banks in the US as clients?** Maybe you’re just blowing smoke? You made a claim of investing ineptitude by banks. **Cerowyn** demanded that you back up those claims. You came here and started squealing like a stuck little piggy. But hey, maybe you did work in banking. I’d accept that as evidence of ineptitude in the industry. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/5 "2002-12-03T14:01:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NutMagnet \* > They all but crammed ATMs down our collective throats, mostly by being open only while **people are at work**. Now after ATMs have become a (welcome) way of life, and while saving the bank money… > \*\* Every ATM I’ve ever seen has been a 24-hour machine. Never heard of them being open only during business hours. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/6 "2002-12-03T14:11:56Z")
I’ll add my voice to those suggesting that **NutMagnet** has only demonstrated that banks have been increasing their fees. There is no support yet for the assertion that > [@](#): > > Because of the ineptitude of most banks at doing the business they are suposed to be doing, like investing, they now make up the difference by gouging the very people whose funds they use . In order to defend this point, you must show that banks, in general, are “inept” at investing, and that a direct result of this ineptitude is the increase of user fees. And while I’m here, perhaps you can pass on to Ed Mierzwinski and his ilk that my U.S. Senators were evidently listening to me, not necessarily their “big bank campaign contributors.” Of course, what I was telling them was that I don’t think it’s the proper role of the federal government to regulate bank’s user fees. And I am an American person. Fancy that. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/7 "2002-12-03T14:12:34Z")
Dan. Read the sentence again. It clearly says that ATM use was forced on the consumer because the banks themselves are only open when the people who need their services are at work. ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/8 "2002-12-03T14:14:58Z")
**Coldfire** : Yes, I have. Those were statements, phrased as rhetorical questions. (Sheesh). And I served on the loan committee for a ($12M) credit union for 4 years, and was the president of it for 2 years. The way we competed with the overpowering presence of the banks was to differentiate ourselves by **providing service** and keeping service fees to a minimum. **Lib** No I have not documented my “claim”. This rant was getting long enough. What other justification do you think banks can provide for this practise other than greed? From here, about Bank One: [http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2001/01/22/story4.html](http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2001/01/22/story4.html) > [@](#): > > Sadlier said that while his bank reported that fourth-quarter net income met Wall Street expectations with an 18 percent profit increase, it also raised provisions for loan losses how about: [http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyEarnings/nov27\_bankmontreal-cp.html](http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyEarnings/nov27_bankmontreal-cp.html) > [@](#): > > TORONTO (CP) – The turbulent economy torpedoed Bank of Montreal’s quarterly profit to a measly $4 million after heavy losses at its Harris subsidiary in the United States, bad loans and other writedowns… > …For the full year ended Oct. 31, net profit was $1.47 billion, down from $1.86 billion in 2000. Diluted earnings per share for the year totalled $2.66 compared with $3.25 last year. Christ! $1.47 billion! So, to make up for the bad loans they want my $20? But to shed perspective on this thread. I am addressing Cerowyn’s “response” to my comments. I resent him calling me a “dumb” shit" and accusing me of “parroting moronic predjudice”. He knows nothing about me, he didn’t address the OP, and he’s a fucking jerk. Now how did it fall to me to defend the complaining bank customers in the OP and present my resume because I’ve stated the obvious? (BTW the OP was here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144931](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144931) ) ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/9 "2002-12-03T14:15:51Z")
I wouldn’t go so far as to say it “clearly” says that, although that’s probably what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/10 "2002-12-03T14:22:51Z")
I am not surprised that a schmuck like **NutMagnet** is getting all this flak, but I _am_ surprised that there are so many objections to banking ineptitude. Banks frequently extend enormous loans to extremely unlikely individuals and shady businesses, often because their analysts just don’t get around to reviewing the documents sufficiently. To compound their mistakes, they notoriously throw vast quantities of good money after bad. Yes, I do have personal experience in this field, as I work in bankruptcy law. We represent banks trying to recover their money from insolvent corporations that often enough, they never should have lent to in the first place, a conclusion that requires very little hindsight. ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/11 "2002-12-03T14:38:16Z")
Hey Maeglin Fuck you too. What did I ever do to you? Jesus, how did I become such a pariah on this board? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/12 "2002-12-03T14:42:52Z")
> [@](#): > > . What did I ever do to you? Nothing. This thread stinks from the head, hence I think you’re a schmuck. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/13 "2002-12-03T14:50:40Z")
Then stay out of it. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/14 "2002-12-03T14:55:50Z")
Hm, let’s see. You create a thread bitching about someone else, can’t back up your own claims, and then tell people to stay out of it? You probably shouldn’t have begun the thread in the first place if comments like **Maeglin** ’s irk you so much. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/15 "2002-12-03T14:56:28Z")
**Maeglin** , are you picking more fights with the new posters? Did you forget your anti-crank medicine again? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/16 "2002-12-03T15:05:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Then stay out of it. I think you should have actually read my entire response. I actually agreed with you with respect to your claim of investing ineptitude. Don’t thank me, it’s okay. Really. **Ace** , if by “new posters” you mean “people who have been posting for over a year,” then yeah, I guess I am. It just tickles me that you call me a crank, though. Please don’t stop. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/17 "2002-12-03T15:10:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > \*\*It just tickles me that you call me a crank, though. Please don’t stop. \*\* I thought he was implying _NutMagnet_ was a crank… ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/18 "2002-12-03T15:11:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought he was implying NutMagnet was a crank… Nope. Old **Ace** and I go _way_ back. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/19 "2002-12-03T15:12:24Z")
Ah. I’ll hie myself back to the naiive corner, then. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203/20 "2002-12-03T15:36:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Every ATM I’ve ever seen has been a 24-hour machine. Never heard of them being open only during business hours. \*\* Aren’t amphibolies wonderful! 😃 I love amphibolous headlines: * * * California man shoots woman from Seattle Dead health guru lived on water Enraged cow injures farmer with ax Two sisters reunite after eighteen years at checkout counter Miners refuse to work after death …and my favorite… Eye drops off shelf [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cerowyn-blow-me/140203.md?page=2)