# Hey Chargers, get the f\*\*\* out of San Diego. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359 "2015-06-24T14:43:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/41 "2015-06-25T13:42:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m sure JERRY JONES is making lots of money off the stadium. It’s a great investment for the team owner, because someone else is picking up a portion of the tab. > > Getting taxpayers to build them new stadiums is a major part of the business plan of most pro sports franchises. You don’t think Jerry paid for that big stadium himself, do you? The good people of Arlington are paying big bucks for that place; every household in Arlington paid $3000 for the initial subsidy. Their taxes are still higher. The Cowboys pay rent of about $2 million per year, which means, by my calculations, that they will pay back that $325 million… never, given the future value of money. The naming rights sold to AT&T cover that for ten years (of course, the Cowboys get all that money.) Yeah, it’s a great investment for Jerry. The Wikipedia article on AT&T Stadium says that eminent domain was used to acquire some of the property. That seems ironic, given how unpopular the Kelo vs City of New London decision was among conservatives and Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/42 "2015-06-25T14:00:47Z")
I got you beat. The Atlanta Braves are building their new stadium in the county I live in. Not only are taxpayer funds being diverted from silly things like schools and roads, but they decided on this without letting us vote on it. The stadium is part of a complex that will include retail, restaurants, an amphitheater, etc. The Cobb County government says the money to build the complex will be paid back from property taxes paid by the retailers. Of course if no one goes there the shops and restaurants won’t last very long. Since the Braves can’t sell out playoff games, when they make it, much less a regular season game, the tax payers of Cobb County are getting boned. The stadium opens for the 2017 season, and there are currently no plans to fix the already ridiculous amount of traffic in that area. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/43 "2015-06-25T14:13:24Z")
The theory is that the Braves don’t sell out games in part because of where Turner Field is located. (Having gone there for a game, I can believe it.) It makes no difference; the taxpayer shouldn’t be paying for the stadium even if the games sell out. 40,000 people instead of 37,000 is nothing, and retail stores are a flat business. If the complex is economically viable, why aren’t private investors building it themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/44 "2015-06-25T14:30:27Z")
The league has to put salary caps on player salary because somehow, the team owners think their players are worth multimillion dollar yearly contracts to chase balls around a field funded by taxpayer sweat. What a business model. I’m really beginning to hate the owners of pro teams. Which begs the question. Is college football even profitable? They field teams that are every bit as good without salary caps and, in many cases, taxpayer funding. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/45 "2015-06-25T14:32:31Z")
I think some college football teams are profitable. I’ve heard, for example, that Alabama is. But most are not. And I think many college athletic programs are the benefit of taxpayer funding. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/46 "2015-06-25T14:47:39Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Which begs the question. Is college football even profitable? They field teams that are every bit as good without salary caps and, in many cases, taxpayer funding. College football has a rather stringent salary cap. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/47 "2015-06-25T14:56:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The Wikipedia article on AT&T Stadium says that eminent domain was used to acquire some of the property. That seems ironic, given how unpopular the Kelo vs City of New London decision was among conservatives and Republicans. Perhaps it’s time for the NFL to stop fostering its culture of dependency and pull itself up by its bootstraps. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/48 "2015-06-25T16:13:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If the complex is economically viable, why aren’t private investors building it themselves? The short answer is, they don’t have to. They don’t need to put any of their own money at risk. It’s all reward for them, and I can’t blame them. Who wouldn’t take all that money? They own the team. As long as there is another city out there willing to pony up the money, if you want to keep that team, the taxpayers are put over a barrel. It is a great thing to be a team owner. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/49 "2015-06-25T16:16:58Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > The short answer is, they don’t have to. > > They don’t need to put any of their own money at risk. It’s all reward for them, and I can’t blame them. Who wouldn’t take all that money? They own the team. As long as there is another city out there willing to pony up the money, if you want to keep that team, the taxpayers are put over a barrel. > > It is a great thing to be a team owner. I don’t know about other people, but i’m not blaming the owners for asking for the money. There’s nothing to be lost by asking for a handout. That’s the fundamental principle behind panhandling, and it applies to squeegee bums and to NFL team owners alike. I’m blaming the elected officials, and the voters who support them, for handing over the cash. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/50 "2015-06-25T16:43:02Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > The short answer is, they don’t have to. Exactly. It was a rhetorical question. Other businesses do this too, of course. The Big Three automakers are infamous for it. A few years ago Chrysler demanded the province of Ontario give them $700 million or else they might close up their plants here. The province couldn’t promise them the money… so they just came up with it themselves, and publicly stated the reason they asked for it was just to see if they could get it. Those weren’t the exact words but it was along the lines of “since the government has given us a lot of money before, we felt we should approach them to see if they were interested in more handouts.” I mean, fair enough. The governments of Canada and Ontario had already given Chrysler and GM $14 billion in handouts through stock purchases, of which $3.5 billion was pure profit to Chrysler and GM. If the government is going to hand your business free money, it would be crazy not to take it - I know small companies who have someone on staff whose entire job is to navigate government subsidy programs to get free cash. Hell, I’d argue Chrysler would have been fiscally negligent to not ask. If they can just get $3.5 billion for nothing, asking for more is just the prudent thing to do. If the government offered me free money, I’d take it. All government stadium deals are handouts. None are economically logical. Some, like the arena in Glendale, are fiscal catastrophes and you notice those; others, like pretty much any baseball stadium - let’s say Target Field - are also ripoffs, but it’s not a giant disaster because the tax base is large enough to absorb it and the team it hosts is not perpetually in a state of getting ready to leave town. ---
**Author:** ![Lubricious\_Integument](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lubricious\_Integument](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lubricious_Integument)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/51 "2015-06-25T16:53:29Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The league has to put salary caps on player salary because somehow, the team owners think their players are worth multimillion dollar yearly contracts to chase balls around a field funded by taxpayer sweat. What a business model. I’m really beginning to hate the owners of pro teams. > > Which begs the question. Is college football even profitable? They field teams that are every bit as good without salary caps and, in many cases, taxpayer funding. > **[Begging the question](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question)** > > In classical rhetoric and logic, begging the question or assuming the conclusion (Latin: petītiō principiī) is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion. Historically, begging the question refers to a fault in a dialectical argument in which the speaker assumes some premise that has not been demonstrated to be true. In modern usage, it has come to refer to an argument in which the premises assume the conclusion without supporting it. This mak... ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/52 "2015-06-25T18:52:47Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Is college football even profitable? They field teams that are every bit as good Every bit as _entertaining_, maybe. As good? Not hardly. > [@](#): > > without salary caps To the contrary, the NCAA caps student-athlete salaries, and benefit packages, pretty damn tightly. Not that there aren’t ways for boosters to express appreciation to players, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359/53 "2015-07-08T06:31:13Z")
> [@bup](#): > > All municipal bonds are federal income tax-free. 4 billion, _spread from 1986 to 2047_, is nothing. New ball parks generate interest, and business, and tourism. Their construction provides jobs for a couple of years. > > That’s a good government investment. Not everyone agrees with this assessment, as Dan McSwain demonstrates in a recent [column](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/04/san-diego-may-do-better-without-nfl-chargers/) in the local paper. I don’t always agree with McSwain, but I think he makes a good point here: > [@Dan McSwain](#): > > Sports venues certainly generate sales, but the overall economic activity is generally the same — and often less — than what would have happened anyway. > > Experts offer various explanations: The NFL’s millionaire players have high saving rates and often live elsewhere. Family entertainment budgets are finite, so catching a game simply diverts spending from something else. Something to that, I think. In today’s economy about the only business people who can be assured of a windfall from a football stadium are the ones who operate parking lots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chargers-get-the-f-out-of-san-diego/723359.md?page=2)