# Hey, Chumpsky, how about you enlighten us. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100 "2003-01-07T04:28:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/241 "2003-01-13T04:00:45Z")
**Chumpsky** , have you no sense of decency sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency? [sub]The preceding statement just happened to tumble from my fingers. Any resemblence to an actual statement by an actual historical figure is purely intentional.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/242 "2003-01-13T04:02:51Z")
**Chumpsky** , what I don’t think you’ve grasped is that your credibility is completely shot among nearly all of the posters on this board. (Or if you’ll jerk your knee so hard as to bruise your forehead, you can refrain from demanding that I retract such a slanderous allegation. I’ll suggest you just reread the thread.) You can protest and complain that some of your posts weren’t blatantly stolen, but the fact remains that your demonstrated intellectual dishonestly leads me to question every single post you make. For me, at least, it’s going to take a long time before I’ll believe that any of your ‘essays’ aren’t a result of theft. If you can’t even argue your viewpoint in your own words, how am I supposed to be swayed? The honest thing to do now is to _admit_ that what you did was wrong. You’ve not only stolen – now you deny that it was a problem at all. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/243 "2003-01-13T04:04:18Z")
Say goodnight, Gracie… ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/244 "2003-01-13T04:09:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > **For me, at least, it’s going to take a long time before I’ll believe that any of your ‘essays’ aren’t a result of theft.** Ahh yes. Care to back up that “belief”? > [@](#): > > \*\*The honest thing to do now is to _admit_ that what you did was wrong. You’ve not only stolen – now you deny that it was a problem at all. \*\* I already have! Several times! I admitted that copying the sentences from Maas was wrong. Yet, I still totally deny that the sentences on ITT and GM were plagiarized, and wrote a lengthy reply to the paragraph regarding Kosovo. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/245 "2003-01-13T04:10:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Now you’re being too lenient–spammers, IMO, deserve to be tossed out the airlock sans spacesuit, just like the rest of the debris. \*\* Ed sez that he would have to admonish me if he found out that I did any such thing. So far, he’s never noticed any bodies… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/246 "2003-01-13T04:13:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I already have! Several times! I admitted that copying the sentences from Maas was wrong. Yet, I still totally deny that the sentences on ITT and GM were plagiarized, and wrote a lengthy reply to the paragraph regarding Kosovo so you’re saying that the identical word-for-word phrasing of your posts and the ITT and GM sites were just, what? Parallel evolution like the Yangs and Coms on Omega 7? Pull the other one, sister. ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/247 "2003-01-13T04:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*so you’re saying that the identical word-for-word phrasing of your posts and the ITT and GM sites were just, what? Parallel evolution like the Yangs and Coms on Omega 7? Pull the other one, sister. \*\* You moron, they weren’t word for word. Shall I re-post the entire argument I already posted, or will you just ignore it again? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/248 "2003-01-13T04:15:51Z")
:eek: and :eek: again. [Chumpsky\*\*, you’ve haven’t really listened to anything else I’ve ever said to you, so I don’t expect you to listen to this, but you’ve got bigger problems than **Red\_Fury** at the moment. Did you somehow miss **Lynn Bodoni** ’s post on this matter? In case you did, here it is again: > [@](#): > > Chumpsky, I find that you have done some plagiarizing. Then you try to argue that it’s NOT plagiarizing. We at the Straight Dope take plagiarizing VERY seriously. A new instance of this behavior will lead to your banning. Are you completely incapable of seeing what a fool you are making of yourself here? Let it go, for fucks sake. ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/249 "2003-01-13T04:19:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by El\_Kabong \* > \*\*Are you completely incapable of seeing what a fool you are making of yourself here? Let it go, for fucks sake. \*\* Kiss my ass. I will not let it go. Again, I apologized for the copying of Maas’ sentences. But, what really has me irate is the implication from **RedFury** and other posters here that many, if not most, of my posts have been plagiarized. I will not let this drop until there is a retraction of this vicious slander, or some evidence is produced to back it up. Ban me if you like, but I will continue to insist on this point. ---
**Author:** ![BrightEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@BrightEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightEyes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/250 "2003-01-13T04:20:26Z")
Give it up. You plagarised. Apparently at first you were reciting it from memory, now you were just taking from it, not citing it, then posting it three times just so you wouldn’t be marked as a plagarist? Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/251 "2003-01-13T04:23:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrightEyes \* > \*\*Give it up. You plagarised. Apparently at first you were reciting it from memory, now you were just taking from it, not citing it, then posting it three times just so you wouldn’t be marked as a plagarist? > Bullshit. \*\* Bullshit is right. I admitted straight up that I had copied the lines from Maas. What I insist that I wrote from memory are the sentences regarding ITT and GM. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/252 "2003-01-13T04:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Kiss my ass. OK, well, I guess that question’s answered then. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/253 "2003-01-13T04:41:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Early Out \* > \*\*All very tempting, but **gobear** is absolutely correct. If we start believing that personal growth isn’t possible, we’re all in trouble. \*\* It would appear that I spoke too soon… ---
**Author:** ![BrightEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@BrightEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightEyes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/254 "2003-01-13T04:43:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > \*\*Bullshit is right. I admitted straight up that I had copied the lines from Maas. What I insist that I wrote from memory are the sentences regarding ITT and GM. \*\* Does that make the fact you plagarised any better? No, plain and simple you stole it. Even if you owned up on it because someone ‘found you out’, it’s still plagarism in my eyes. The fact is, you posted the link, not telling anybody you plagarised from it. Nobody noticed, up until **Fury** showed it wasn’t you. People were made to assume that YOU wrote that. I still think it’s impossible for you to write something so close to the originial verbatim in your post. Your a plagarising jackass. Still, I ask you to give it up. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/255 "2003-01-13T04:44:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > You moron, they weren’t word for word. Shall I re-post the entire argument I already posted, or will you just ignore it again? Paraphrasing without citation is also plagiarism. Here commences the lesson: {Direct quotation} > [@](#): > > “Plagiarism means using another’s work without giving credit. You must put others’ words in quotation marks and cite your source(s) and must give citations when using others’ ideas, even if those ideas are paraphrased in your own words.” ([UCD SJA Website](http://sja.ucdavis.edu/avoid.htm)) {paraphrase} > [@](#): > > Using somone else’s work without giving that person credit is plagiarism. You are required to put others’ words in quotation marks and credit your source or sources, including when using others’ ideas, even if it’s not word for word. ([UCD SJA Website](http://sja.ucdavis.edu/avoid.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/256 "2003-01-13T04:49:50Z")
I forgot to mention something I found interesting. I’ve had at least one teacher over the years who’s even required that one provide a citation when quoting one’s own published work! This even went to the extent that when I took a digital photograph myself and used it for a term project, I had to cite the photograph as _Photograph by Monty, 2002_. Not only did it help me not plagiarize, it kept the prof happy. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/257 "2003-01-13T04:59:38Z")
Hah! I just noticed that I “double quotation marked” my direct quotation example above. Apparently I forgot that I was already placing the example within the quote lines! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/258 "2003-01-13T05:39:16Z")
Hmmm…if it isn’t my _bud_, **Chumpsky** , back for more. Guess this matter wasn’t settled after all. Well then, let’s see if this helps with your closure issues – or whatever other issues have you in a tizzy. Your claims about posting from work [can be found right here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2738199#post2738199) > [@](#): > > \*\*“I wrote this at work, just perusing a few web sites, so the documentation leaves something to be desired” \*\* Yes, indeed, small trivial stuff like _who actually writes_ some of your stuff? Anyhow, more examples of plagiarism you ask? What do you know, I just may be able to accommodate your request. Anything for a bud, right? [In fact, why don’t we take a look at another post from the Kosovo thread?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2762023#post2762023) Good idea methinks, and I hope you do too. In it, you write: > [@](#): > > **"Even if Serbian atrocities had been committed, and no doubt some were, as happens in every war, where is the sense of proportionality? Paramilitary killings in Kosovo (which occurred mostly after the bombings began) are no justification for bombing fifteen cities in hundreds of around-the-clock raids for over two months, killing thousands of Serbs, Albanians, Roma, Turks, and others, and destroying bridges, residential areas, and over two hundred hospitals, clinics, schools, and churches, along with the productive capital of an entire nation."** And, being the clever fellow that you are, right in the next paragraph, you add the following sentence: > [@](#): > > \*\*"“spewing hundreds of thousands of tons of highly toxic and carcinogenic chemicals into the water, air, and soil” \*\* So, since I am not exactly a chimp either – nothing against chimps, but hey! – I put those two together, and get…well, I get the _rightful owner_ of that intellectual property, one [Michael Parenti,](http://www.michaelparenti.org/yugoslavia.html) \*\* verbatim \*\*: > [@](#): > > **"Even if Serbian atrocities had been committed, and I have no doubt that some were, where is the sense of proportionality? Paramilitary killings in Kosovo (which occurred mostly after the aerial war began) are no justification for bombing fifteen cities in hundreds of around-the-clock raids for over two months, spewing hundreds of thousands of tons of highly toxic and carcinogenic chemicals into the water, air, and soil, killing thousands of Serbs, Albanians, Roma, Turks, and others, and destroying bridges, residential areas, and over two hundred hospitals, clinics, schools, and churches, along with the productive capital of an entire nation."** So, bud, about that definition of plagiarism we don’t agree in, care to explain yours one more time? Because the above most definitely fits mine. On second thought, never mind, no need to answer anyway. Because the only definition that matters at this time, is the one the SDMB staff makes. Have a lovely evening, _bud_. ---
**Author:** ![BrightEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@BrightEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightEyes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/259 "2003-01-13T05:58:40Z")
4th example, chumpsky. gonna give it up? ---
**Author:** ![Vic\_Ferrari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/dbc845/32.png) [@Vic\_Ferrari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vic_Ferrari)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100/260 "2003-01-13T06:03:18Z")
**Chumpsky** , nobody here is going to bother searching through every single one of your old posts for instances of plagiarism because three (or two, or one) is enough. Now we’re going to listen to your arguments with as much interest as you listen to ours: not much. But I’m a glutton for punishment so let’s look at **RedFury** ’s statement that you keep posting because you’re so outraged: **"Number two. Although I am perfectly aware that we have any number of extremely bright and qualified people on this board – some, I am sure, qualify as “geniuses” – it is extremely suspect for someone that often claims to be posting “from work” to be able to sustain the kind of scholarly output (right or wrong in its views, but erudite, well-written and chockfull of factual information) that he did."** Here, **RedFury** simply stated what made him suspicious of you. If you really don’t post from work, then his suspicions were based on a faulty premise, but it _just so happens_ that his suspicions were otherwise on the mark. Hmmm, he must be psychic or something. In the next sentance: **"I am willing to bet that each of those essays and articles he plagiarized, had a lot of hours of research and brainpower behind them."** He states that the articles you plagiarized were probably the result of hard work on the part of the original authors, I would imagine that’s true. Either way, I don’t see **RedFury** _asserting_ that most or all of your posts are plagiarized, he simply laid out why he was suspicious. He later writes that he suspects the rest of your work, but that’s not an accusation, it’s just a statement of how he’s going to look at your work from now on. P.S. On preview, it appears that **RedFury** got you yet _again_, it looks like his suspicions are well founded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-chumpsky-how-about-you-enlighten-us/147100.md?page=14)