# Hey comic fans, why all the hate for sexiness in comics and toons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 4, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045 "2005-07-04T19:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/41 "2005-07-06T16:25:34Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Come on. At least some of us want to see Batman & Catwoman make it. They have. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/42 "2005-07-06T16:27:28Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > They have. Where?! I must have missed it. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/43 "2005-07-06T16:29:47Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Where?! I must have missed it. Oh, it was an issue of Catwoman last year that had Brucey getting dressed the “morning after” having spent the night at Selina’s place, wasn’t it, Lou? ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/44 "2005-07-06T16:35:03Z")
Yeah. I don’t remember the exact issue number, but I’m thinking it was while Ed Brubaker was still writing it. ---
**Author:** ![Selkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Selkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Selkie)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/45 "2005-07-06T16:41:07Z")
Was it Bruce, or Slam? I’m remembering the latter quite vividly, but drawing a blank on the former. I bailed at issue 24, so it’s possible there’s a Bruce moment that I missed. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/46 "2005-07-06T16:45:23Z")
> [@Selkie](#): > > Was it Bruce, or Slam? I’m remembering the latter quite vividly, but drawing a blank on the former. I bailed at issue 24, so it’s possible there’s a Bruce moment that I missed. There was a Bruce moment, after he helped her with that killer fellow, if I recall correctly, that she’d been having trouble with. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/47 "2005-07-06T17:16:16Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Oh, it was an issue of Catwoman last year that had Brucey getting dressed the “morning after” having spent the night at Selina’s place, wasn’t it, Lou? \*Bruce \* and \*Selina \* getting it on is not the same thing nor as satisfying as \*Batman \* and \*Catwoman \* getting it on. No, it’s not. Bruce Wayne can have sex with whomever he likes, I don’t care\*. - I would have put “couldn’t care less” but with all the SDMB threads on it now I can’t remember which is the correct one. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/48 "2005-07-06T17:28:15Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > \*Bruce \* and \*Selina \* getting it on is not the same thing nor as satisfying as \*Batman \* and \*Catwoman \* getting it on. No, it’s not. > > Bruce Wayne can have sex with whomever he likes, I don’t care\*. > > - I would have put “couldn’t care less” but with all the SDMB threads on it now I can’t remember which is the correct one. Oh, you just like the costumes, eh? 😉 Have you ever read _Watchmen_? ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/49 "2005-07-06T17:32:40Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Let me see if I can clarify here. I don’t think you’re going to attract female fans to comics by toning down the sexiness in the comics that presently appeal to male readers. What you need are comics that are made to appeal to female readers. Sailor Moon kinda things, to hook them while they’re young, moving up to comics to appeal to female readers in their teens (romances, action-adventure with female leads, whatever works). That’s they way it works in Japan. Why do you think toning down the sexiness in standard comics is ever going to attract female readers? I bet it would just lose a bunch of male readers. Sure. There’s no one thing that will bring female fans in, but I challange any self-respecting woman to walk into a comic shop and look at the “bad girl” type of comic art, what with the dental floss coustumes and impossible anatomies and not have her eyes roll right out her skull. An industry where that is a very common portrayal of women is not an industry that will attract female viewers. There are serious issues with the portrayal of women in comic books. Not automatically sexualizing them is a start (not a whole!) to fixing them. As for the men, I’m not suggesting that we make Wonder Woman wear a victorian frock or send Zatanna in for a nice pair of trousers, but guys don’t read comics just to see impossibly proportioned women in sexy poses. If they wanted that they’d turn to… Any other form of media, really. Sex sells, yes, but that doesn’t mean that men can’t be turned off by sex that gets in the way of good artwork or story. There’s also geek social concerns. Comics aren’t socially mainstream. Sexy media, in many of its forms, is not socially mainstream. Sexy comics are thus doubly damned. Nobody wants to be thought of teh guy who’s so pathetic that he drools over Power Girl instead of going out and buying a Maxim. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/50 "2005-07-06T18:07:34Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Oh, you just like the costumes, eh? 😉 > > Have you ever read _Watchmen_? They’re not costumes! They’re alter egos! 😃 I’m afraid I haven’t read Watchmen, haven’t been able to find any place that loans them (library) and I don’t want to buy them. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/51 "2005-07-06T19:59:02Z")
> [@The Hook](#): > > Exactly, you said it better than I could ever had. Fans tune out and are displeased when confronted with any tacked-on “sexiness” because they know it’s unnecesary, it shows a lack of maturity from the author, and it simply doesn’t work. To put it better, in your terms, the “sexiness” aspect of it doesn’t come naturally from the world the comics create and instead seems forcibly attached. It takes you out of that world when not done right (and it usually isn’t). Hear, hear. Byrne’s “Black Queen” was one of the hottest things I’d ever seen. It was also integral to the story and Byrne _didn’t_ alter Jean’s proportions to do it. He understood anatomy. And there’s _never_ been a sexier costume than Zatanna’s (IMO) and it doesn’t require cantilevers. > [@Evil Captor](#): > > Currently there’s a threadful of rolleyes about a new mutant in the Xmen 3 movie whose ability is seductiveness – a siren, I guess. Apparently, a woman whose ability IS sexiness just won’t do. (I personally find the thought of a woman with sexiness ramped up to mutant superpower levels to be intriguing.) For me, it’s not that: it’s that the first two X-Men movies stuck pretty close to the comics. This seems like a cheesy attempt at pandering to cover the fact that he (allegedly) has no plot. There are thousands of mutant characters and 50 years of stories to mine/swipe that are open to the director…and the best he can do is “I’ll stick a sexy-hot woman in and no-one will notice I don’t got no plot”? > [@Evil Captor](#): > > Then there’s the matter of Jim Balent, the mere mention of whose name is enough to elicit groans and rolleyes from some Catwoman fans. His crime: he made Catwoman too sexy. Again, speaking only for myself “A woman with watermelons stuffed down her shirt” != “sexy”. Hell, Harvey Kurtzman’s famous “Little Annie Fanny” cartoons had sexier art and bigger boobs. If I’m gonna look at a sexy drawing of a woman, I want to look at a sexy drawing of a _woman_, not a vaguely female creature with an “S” shaped spine, such that her butt sticks up and out while two magic anti-gravity boobies shaped and proportioned like watermelons hover over a 3" waist who’s legs/crotch are three times longer than her body. Dood, she’d snap like a twig. Look at the aforementioned ByrneWhite/Black Queens (hell, or his Phoenix/Storm/Misty Knight/Colleen Wing women for that matter) for hot. Or Romita’s Mary Jane Watson and Gwen Stacey for “Wholesome but sexy as hell” or even Kurtzman’s “Little Annie Fanny” for “exaggerated/cartoony but hot”. Tex Avery’s “Little Red” cartoons were hot. Modern bad art of the “Dur, we’ll make der boobies bigger an’ der tushie bigger too!” style art is bad art, regardless of boob/butt size. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/52 "2005-07-09T23:25:22Z")
OK, I HATE to bump this thread, but I have a question that somewhat relates to the title. On page 278 of the July issues of previews is an ad for a lithograph featuring Solarman, Man of the Atom. (Same image repeats in smaller version on page 279). The largest character on the lithography is a woman with a nice, large rack who is standing spreadeagled in the dramatic pose that typically means, “I’m casting a magic spell/throwing lightning bolts or getting a shot of same up my butt.” She’s wearing a disaphanous green harem girl kinda thingie that makes it clear she’s naked beneath it. Now, here’s the curious thing. The nipples of her breasts are missing in the time-honored comic book fashion, but there’s what appears to be a drawing of her vagina between her legs. It’s perfectly located, it’s shaped like a vagina, etc. Any others Perveiws … er, Previews owners, who can confirm? And how common is this kind of (I’m assuming) slip-up? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/53 "2005-07-10T20:47:26Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > OK, I HATE to bump this thread, but I have a question that somewhat relates to the title. On page 278 of the July issues of previews is an ad for a lithograph featuring Solarman, Man of the Atom. (Same image repeats in smaller version on page 279). The largest character on the lithography is a woman with a nice, large rack who is standing spreadeagled in the dramatic pose that typically means, “I’m casting a magic spell/throwing lightning bolts or getting a shot of same up my butt.” She’s wearing a disaphanous green harem girl kinda thingie that makes it clear she’s naked beneath it. > > Now, here’s the curious thing. The nipples of her breasts are missing in the time-honored comic book fashion, but there’s what appears to be a drawing of her vagina between her legs. It’s perfectly located, it’s shaped like a vagina, etc. Any others Perveiws … er, Previews owners, who can confirm? And how common is this kind of (I’m assuming) slip-up? It’s just “Solar”, Man of the Atom. Verified, though - or, at least, the folds of the diaphanous thing she’s wearing certainly give that impression. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/54 "2005-07-10T20:58:14Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > It’s just “Solar”, Man of the Atom. Verified, though - or, at least, the folds of the diaphanous thing she’s wearing certainly give that impression. Concur. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/55 "2005-07-11T12:07:07Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > It’s just “Solar”, Man of the Atom. Verified, though - or, at least, the folds of the diaphanous thing she’s wearing certainly give that impression. I’m sure hand-waving of that sort will be attempted by whoever publishes the lithograph if some bluenose complains. But I don’t think any reasonable person could look at that drawing and not see it for what it is. ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/56 "2005-07-11T12:51:14Z")
For those of us without a _Previews_ handy, but would still like to weigh in on this very important issue, you can see the lithograph [here](http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/p-C103703.html). For myself, it’s in the right position, but it looks like no vagina I’ve ever seen (it seems to have a helical structure, for one thing). That dark band – whatever it is – also seems to extend up to her belt (you can see a little bit of it above Solar’s leg), so my vote is that it’s a bad drawing of a thong. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045/57 "2005-07-11T16:55:24Z")
> [@G.B.H. Hornswoggler](#): > > For those of us without a _Previews_ handy, but would still like to weigh in on this very important issue, you can see the lithograph [here](http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/p-C103703.html). > > For myself, it’s in the right position, but it looks like no vagina I’ve ever seen (it seems to have a helical structure, for one thing). That dark band – whatever it is – also seems to extend up to her belt (you can see a little bit of it above Solar’s leg), so my vote is that it’s a bad drawing of a thong. I have examined it carefully. It is clearly a drawing of a vagina. There are two labia on either side of it, the line of the cleft down the middle and a blob at the top where the inner labia tend to poke out on some women. Don’t know where you’re getting that helical structure. Sounds like you’re getting a little DNA-ish on us here. Anyway, this is the most important topic ever debated on the Dope, so there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-comic-fans-why-all-the-hate-for-sexiness-in-comics-and-toons/311045.md?page=2)