# Hey cyclists, d'ya wanna stop running red lights please? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770 "2007-06-05T00:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/21 "2007-06-05T08:39:00Z")
[QUOTE=Red Barchetta] Sticking to the subject matter strictly at hand; I see far more bicyclists run stop signs and traffic lights than I do motorists. [/QUOTE] Firstly that is no answer to the point I made. Secondly, is there any other balancing consideration you see as relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/22 "2007-06-05T09:27:46Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Only on paper. Enforcement is so lax, they might as well not apply at all. And cyclists know this. [/QUOTE] I’m seeing more and more of them get nailed lately, and it gives me a nice warm feeling every time I see it. Idiot cyclists are a far greater hazard to me when I ride than cars and trucks. A couple of weeks ago I saw one jerk getting reamed by a traffic cop after sailing through a red light (which I was waiting at) at night without so much as a reflector on his granny bike. He pointed over in my direction and asked the cop why he was just picking on him and not me. Because I’ve got my lights on and I’m following the traffic rules, asshole! ---
**Author:** ![ignoramus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@ignoramus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignoramus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/23 "2007-06-05T11:44:56Z")
Hi, my name is **ignoramus** and I’ll be the target for your ire today - as I happily cycle through red lights every day (well, not necessarily on weekends). Stopping is just too much of a hassle and if I wanted to be stationary 90% of the time I’d drive. And while riding without lights is certainly moronic it’s the cyclists without mudguards that are the real bastards… ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/24 "2007-06-05T12:15:41Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] But I can’t recall anyone ever expressing the type of spitting venom **Equipoise** displays about an incident where a stupid motorist killed himself. [/QUOTE] There’s a first time for everything. There have been threads in the way past about car vs. train accidents, where people were pretty unhappy about the motorist. It’s definitely not an everyday topic around here, though. I think the issue here is not just that the cyclist did something stupid, but that it’s a continuation of an obvious pattern cyclists have of ignoring road signs. When a car blows straight through a red, it’s unusual, and nobody is out there justifying it the way cyclists do. So this cyclist, who very likely blows through red lights all the time and justifies it, simply thought of this as another red light to ignore, and has now gotten himself killed in the process. Ignoramus, what’s so bad about not having mudguards? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/25 "2007-06-05T12:16:46Z")
The key thing about cycling is to maintain momentum. Stopping really should be avoided if at all possible. While red light jumping is illegal, it can be perfectly safe and in these circumstances (when I used to cycle) I would jump the light. I also regularly jump lights when driving, to save time. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/26 "2007-06-05T12:32:18Z")
[QUOTE=ignoramus] I happily cycle through red lights every day [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cryptoderk] While red light jumping is illegal, it can be perfectly safe and in these circumstances (when I used to cycle) I would jump the light. [/QUOTE] Interesting. Do motorists have any obligation to avoid you when you run a light? Or can I crush you into a pulp without being a bad person? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/27 "2007-06-05T12:38:26Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Interesting. Do motorists have any obligation to avoid you when you run a light? Or can I crush you into a pulp without being a bad person? [/QUOTE] Legally they do in this country, as a green light is only permission to proceed if safe (and I assume it’s the same over there). However I don’t jump lights where it would bring me into conflict with other traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/28 "2007-06-05T12:48:46Z")
[QUOTE=ignoramus] Hi, my name is ignoramus and I’ll be the target for your ire today - as I happily cycle through red lights every day (well, not necessarily on weekends). Stopping is just too much of a hassle and if I wanted to be stationary 90% of the time I’d drive. [/QUOTE] Sorry, you’re going to have to share being the target. I typically run 2 red lights and ~a dozen stop signs every day. For the stop signs, I stop if there’s cars around. It’s pretty flat around here, so it’s rather difficult for them to sneak up on you. I always stop for red lights, but I’ll ride across if there’s no one around, just like I jaywalk if there’s no cars around. Occasionally I’ll also drive across in my car, usually late at night. ---
**Author:** ![ignoramus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@ignoramus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignoramus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/29 "2007-06-05T13:02:33Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] Ignoramus, what’s so bad about not having mudguards? [/QUOTE] Try cycling behind someone without them on a rainy day, the plume of muddy water they can fire out behind them is impressive… ---
**Author:** ![ignoramus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@ignoramus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignoramus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/30 "2007-06-05T13:10:10Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Interesting. Do motorists have any obligation to avoid you when you run a light? Or can I crush you into a pulp without being a bad person? [/QUOTE] Probably worth trying to avoid me, you wouldn’t want to bugger your no-claims bonus after all… ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/31 "2007-06-05T13:16:22Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] Precisely. I can recall a (very) few threads expressing outrage about motorists who’ve done something very stupid resulting in deaths of others. But I can’t recall anyone ever expressing the type of spitting venom **Equipoise** displays about an incident where a stupid motorist killed himself. [/QUOTE] There’s always [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=422545) from a couple of weeks ago ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/32 "2007-06-05T14:10:48Z")
Lacks the spitting venom. Plus a major source of ire in that thread is the threat to others. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/33 "2007-06-05T14:23:21Z")
When biking, I have much better awareness of traffic- I can hear much better, and see much much better. So I have no problem crossing against red lights and stop signs. I do slow down and make sure though. One accident is more than enough- I was riding against traffic, on the left hand side of the road, and someone turning right onto the street clipped my back wheel. Now I wear a safety vest like highway construction workers, and take the whole lane if I need to. Drivers are starting to realize that I’m entitled to it. Doesn’t really change their ire levels, though. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/34 "2007-06-05T14:34:00Z")
This shit comes up every year on the dope. Bile spewed at bikers outweighs the amount spewed at speeders or drunk drivers, or red light runners in cars. . .every one of which is insanely more dangerous than anything bikers do. There’s really only one explanation: people get mad at cyclists who run red lights because of their own self-loathing at being wasteful, fat slobs who can’t balance on two wheels. At least be honest enough to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/35 "2007-06-05T14:43:52Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] How many posts have you seen expressing **Equipoise** style venom towards motorists driving small cars who are at fault and the only casualty in collisions with trains or semi trailers? [/QUOTE] What exactly are you trying to prove here? ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/36 "2007-06-05T14:45:56Z")
I get mad at cyclists who run red lights and put me in the position of having to take evasive action to avoid hitting them not because I can’t ride a bike and I’m envious of them (I’m a perfectly good cyclist, thank you), but because in a car/bicycle collision, the odds are pretty good that the bicycle is going to get a _lot_ more damage than a car. In a 25 mph collision, a car hitting another car might cause some dents and maybe a some minor injuries. Hitting a bicyclist at 25 mph is a very, very different animal. So I’d rather not spend the rest of my life haunted the image of striking a bicyclist and seeing their severely injured body go flying over the hood of my car, if you don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/37 "2007-06-05T14:49:52Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] This shit comes up every year on the dope. Bile spewed at bikers outweighs the amount spewed at speeders or drunk drivers, or red light runners in cars. . .every one of which is insanely more dangerous than anything bikers do. There’s really only one explanation: people get mad at cyclists who run red lights because of their own self-loathing at being wasteful, fat slobs who can’t balance on two wheels. At least be honest enough to admit it. [/QUOTE] I might feel that way if cycling was even a remotely feasible way to commute around here. I have a mountain bike and I ride it every weekend, but there’s just nowhere on the roads here where I’d ever consider cycling. I don’t live that far from where I work, but I don’t live in a major urban area, my commute is about 20 minutes (almost no stop lights that whole time) on roads with top speeds of 65 mph, minimum speeds of 40 mph, where it is actually illegal to drive any vehicle that is not capable of going 70 mph (for example even small motorized bikes that can’t go 70+ cannot legally be driven on these roads.) I think the reason cyclists get so much bile is precisely because of people like you and Ignoramus. Not only do you gleefully admit you run red lights, but you look down on people who drive cars for well, driving cars. In my experience on the road no one is quite as reviled as the car driver who barrels through a four way intersection, running a red light going 55 mph. He risks the lives of several other motorists simply because he can’t be bothered to push his foot down on the brake. However, in general those are the _rare_ motorists, and even most of them will more or less admit that they were in the wrong when confronted about it, but will justify it saying “well, I thought I could beat the yellow.” Cyclists on the other hand will say shit just like the moronic cyclists in this thread say, that “if I wanted to be stopped all the time I’d be driving a car” and then add some insult where you actually have the stupidity to generalize that every person who drives a car does so because they’re too fat and lazy to pedal around on a bike. It shows that you live a very sheltered life, and I see this from pretty much all cyclists who think that way. These are people who live specifically in areas where cycling is viable, and are too stupid or too short sighted to realize that, hey, guess what, most of the United States isn’t an urban metropolis, most Americans live in suburban areas and small cities where pedaling around on a bike just isn’t a feasible way of getting around. Or, they work in a professional setting where walking in to the office smelling of BO you’ve worked up pedaling to work and wearing cycling clothes just wouldn’t fly. ---
**Author:** ![beergeek279](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@beergeek279](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beergeek279)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/38 "2007-06-05T14:51:59Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] This shit comes up every year on the dope. Bile spewed at bikers outweighs the amount spewed at speeders or drunk drivers, or red light runners in cars. . .every one of which is insanely more dangerous than anything bikers do. [/QUOTE] Well, I haven’t seen vehicle red light runners come here and defend their inalienable right to do so. Of course, I’ve never seen a pitting of a drunk driver at any time here. > [@](#): > > There’s really only one explanation: people get mad at cyclists who run red lights because of their own self-loathing at being wasteful, fat slobs who can’t balance on two wheels. > > At least be honest enough to admit it. Or maybe…it’s because it becomes MY responsibility, when I have the legal right of way, to stop in order to prevent your dumb ass from becoming a splatter on my fucking bumper. If you’re Lance Fucking Armstrong, a superhuman god amongst us poor wasteful, fat slobs, I’m sure you can get your bicycle back up to speed a couple of times. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/39 "2007-06-05T14:55:16Z")
I am a cyclist and it pisses me off to see cyclists not following the rules of the road. I mean, how can you expect courtesy from motorists when you aren’t willing to follow the same rules they are following? We want the motorists to share the road with us, but then we want to do whatever we want while on that road? Plus, to have this behavior when you are soft tissue exposed on a bike and motorists are in their heavy, hard, shiny metal boxes, does not make sense. ---
**Author:** ![ignoramus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@ignoramus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignoramus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770/40 "2007-06-05T14:59:53Z")
[QUOTE=Mama Tiger] I get mad at cyclists who run red lights and put me in the position of having to take evasive action to avoid hitting them not because I can’t ride a bike and I’m envious of them (I’m a perfectly good cyclist, thank you), but because in a car/bicycle collision, the odds are pretty good that the bicycle is going to get a _lot_ more damage than a car. In a 25 mph collision, a car hitting another car might cause some dents and maybe a some minor injuries. Hitting a bicyclist at 25 mph is a very, very different animal. So I’d rather not spend the rest of my life haunted the image of striking a bicyclist and seeing their severely injured body go flying over the hood of my car, if you don’t mind. [/QUOTE] Must admit I skimmed the OP somewhat. While I ride through red lights I do that when all traffic is stationary, zipping through junctions while dodging traffic is something I’m much too cowardly/sensible for. I’ve even been known to stop at roundabouts, on occasion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-cyclists-dya-wanna-stop-running-red-lights-please/406770.md?page=3)