# Hey Dems - Stop fighting with each other! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 18, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320 "2019-03-18T15:36:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/21 "2019-03-18T19:22:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … I’m not interested in helping you rationalize … Don’t worry, I don’t need your help in making up my mind. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … your continued (and apparently future, regardless of opponent, based on your words) and gleeful support … Sure the opponent matters, I just haven’t seen anyone palatable on the Dem side yet. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … That you root for him to win when his opponent isn’t known at all… We don’t yet know which one it will be, but we’ve got a pretty good idea of who the possibilities are so far. It’s possible some additional contenders will throw their hats in too. I don’t think it’s accurate to say “his opponent isn’t known at all”. We’ve narrowed it down from a few hundred million eligible Americans to one or two dozen possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/22 "2019-03-18T19:27:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sure the opponent matters, I just haven’t seen anyone palatable on the Dem side yet. > > We don’t yet know which one it will be, but we’ve got a pretty good idea of who the possibilities are so far. It’s possible some additional contenders will throw their hats in too. I don’t think it’s accurate to say “his opponent isn’t known at all”. We’ve narrowed it down from a few hundred million eligible Americans to one or two dozen possibilities. The majority of them, if not all of them, have not personally attacked women for nothing more than telling their stories (unlike Trump), have not bragged about violating the consent of women and girls on multiple occasions (unlike Trump), and have not praised, encouraged, and threatened violence on multiple occasions (unlike Trump). So even knowing that, the only “palatable” one, in your eyes, is the one who’s guilty of all three. The attacker of women who just told their stories; the bragger of violating the consent of women and girls; and the praiser/encourager/threatener of violence. When presented with a choice including many who have done none of those things, you choose the one who’s done all of them. Which demonstrates quite clearly (according to your posts alone) your priorities with regards to opposing the abuse of women and violence in our society. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/23 "2019-03-18T19:28:55Z")
By the way, in the spirit of the OP of this thread, hopefully I’ve demonstrated in this thread an alternative for Democrats aside from “fighting with each other”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/24 "2019-03-18T19:38:16Z")
This thread - not about Trump per se. Discussion of who can best beat Trump, candidates against Trump, etc. are all fair game. More like, intra-party argument/squabbles, good or bad? Please stay on topic. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/25 "2019-03-18T19:41:45Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > I keep hearing this on these boards. It’s so odd, because I am personally acquainted with several Bernie people (all of them white men btw) who did sit out the general election or voted for Jill Stein. This is not some kind of a Manufactured by Russia deal. It’s real, and it could be a real problem, and those of us who wish to defeat Trump should not be pretending otherwise. If not pretending otherwise includes [whipping up or taking the bait of trifling drama](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=849772), count me on the side of the OP in that regard. I think it’s known that Bernie has diehard fans in existence who will unconditionally do so if they don’t get their way, and it’s all so tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/26 "2019-03-18T19:46:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Bernie and Biden are older than the hills, of course they said things 100 years ago in a different time and place that they wouldn’t say now. Don’t hassle them! Yeah, I’m sure that Joe Biden wouldn’t have been one of the prime movers of the 2005 Bankruptcy Act if it had been before Congress in 2005, rather than in 1988. Oh wait… Seriously, I’m looking forward to a battle royal between Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden over the 2005 Bankruptcy Act. It will be a good, old-fashioned debate about policy, and Biden’s reputation within the party will be devastated. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/27 "2019-03-18T20:04:56Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > I keep hearing this on these boards. It’s so odd, because I am personally acquainted with several Bernie people (all of them white men btw) who did sit out the general election or voted for Jill Stein. This is not some kind of a Manufactured by Russia deal. It’s real, and it could be a real problem, and those of us who wish to defeat Trump should not be pretending otherwise. I don’t know about your friends specifically, but this was in fact the game the Russian troll farm was playing: to pose as blacks and say things to other blacks that made them wonder whether there was any point in voting for Hillary, or pose as a lefty and say the sorts of things to other lefties that would increase _their_ doubts that there was any reason to vote for Hillary. Besides, she’s gonna win anyway, why not show your true colors and vote for Jill Stein? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/28 "2019-03-18T20:28:04Z")
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. [Hillary Clinton is responsible for the ‘Obama is a Muslim’ smear.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856650) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/29 "2019-03-18T21:12:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know about “gleefully”, but yeah, I’m still glad he’s our President and not the “lady” that undermined her husband’s victims. How do you feel about Bill and Hillary Clinton? Enough with the whatabouts HD. If you can’t constructively contribute I expect you to at least not hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/30 "2019-03-18T21:21:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not for those of us who would prefer a president who hasn’t praised, encouraged, or threatened violence on multiple occasions; and who hasn’t bragged about violating the consent of women on multiple occasions; among other things. YMMV on the importance of opposing violence and the abuse of women. He’s everything Republicans claim to hate, but he has the (R) and says mean things about brown people, so _shrug_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/31 "2019-03-18T21:36:07Z")
This is a primary. What do you think a primary is, anyway? We’re trying to decide which candidate is best (for whatever value of “best” you use). That means deciding that some candidates are better than others. Which, logically, also means deciding that some candidates are worse than others. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/32 "2019-03-18T22:05:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know about “gleefully”, but yeah, I’m still glad he’s our President and not the “lady” that undermined her husband’s victims. How do you feel about Bill and Hillary Clinton? Neat. Say, how do you reconcile your support for putting children in concentration camps with your claims that you oppose abortion for the sake of children? Do you cry “Fake news!” so you can pretend it isn’t happening or do you convince yourself it’s okay to put children in concentration camps because they aren’t white or American? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/33 "2019-03-18T22:15:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This is a primary. What do you think a primary is, anyway? We’re trying to decide which candidate is best (for whatever value of “best” you use). That means deciding that some candidates are better than others. Which, logically, also means deciding that some candidates are worse than others. Those decisions will be mine. When it comes deciding which ones are worse I’ll trust my own judgment over their opponents in a nasty race. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/34 "2019-03-18T22:21:35Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > I keep hearing this on these boards. It’s so odd, because I am personally acquainted with several Bernie people (all of them white men btw) who did sit out the general election or voted for Jill Stein. This is not some kind of a Manufactured by Russia deal. It’s real, and it could be a real problem, and those of us who wish to defeat Trump should not be pretending otherwise. If they’re Bernie Bros. then why didn’t they do what Bernie asked them to and vote for Hillary? Don’t let a handful of jerks and internet trolls convince you there was anything to this. Any real voter anything like your imagination tells you never would have voted for Hillary if Bernie hadn’t run at all. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/35 "2019-03-18T22:24:22Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, I’m sure that Joe Biden wouldn’t have been one of the prime movers of the 2005 Bankruptcy Act if it had been before Congress in 2005, rather than in 1988. Oh wait… > > Seriously, I’m looking forward to a battle royal between Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden over the 2005 Bankruptcy Act. It will be a good, old-fashioned debate about policy, and Biden’s reputation within the party will be devastated. So that one issue to you is so important that you’d rather have Donald Trump get re-elected than the wrong Democratic candidate getting the nomination? Every candidate needs to be asked: What is more important, you being the Democratic candidate or Trump losing? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/36 "2019-03-18T22:30:32Z")
Yup, **TriPolar** , you’ll decide whom to vote for on your primary ballot, just as I’ll decide whom to vote for on mine. But I intend to make that decision based on information, and I don’t have enough resources to singlehandedly find all of the relevant information on every candidate, and so my vote will be influenced by what others say. And, likewise, I also intend to influence other primary voters, so that they’ll be more likely to vote in a way that I would prefer. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/37 "2019-03-18T22:38:22Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Neat. Say, how do you reconcile your support for putting children in concentration camps with your claims that you oppose abortion for the sake of children? Do you cry “Fake news!” so you can pretend it isn’t happening or do you convince yourself it’s okay to put children in concentration camps because they aren’t white or American? I think **Jonathan Chance** and / or **Bone** might be annoyed if I responded to this post in a substantive manner in this thread. You’ll have to start another one if you want to find out the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/38 "2019-03-19T00:31:11Z")
Indeed so. Both of you take it to the Pit or give it a rest. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/39 "2019-03-19T01:06:17Z")
So they’re supposed to somehow compete with each other without pointing out the flaws in the other candidates? You can’t judge based only the “good” qualities. What you are proposing would make it hard to pick a winner, making it hard for everyone to coalesce around a winner. That would make thing worse. This isn’t what Sanders did, alleging that the election itself is fraudulent and attacking the Democratic Party itself. He was saying the Dems were out to get him. That’s where you cross the line. You can attack your opponent, but you do not attack the party you are running for. You don’t attack the election itself, undermining confidence in the vote. But fishing out the dirt on each candidate so people can decide what is and isn’t relevant is great. Getting it out there before the general election during a time when fewer people are paying attention to the election is great. I won’t say anything bad about TriPolar, as I know what side he is on. But I’ve already started encountering conservatives pushing the narrative of Democrats being too divided, and playing up a slight disagreement as “cannibalizing your own.” It’s the conservatives who play up the division between AOC and the other congress people, too. I don’t think we should be helping out that conservative narrative by overhyping the divisions ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320/40 "2019-03-19T01:35:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So that one issue to you is so important that you’d rather have Donald Trump get re-elected than the wrong Democratic candidate getting the nomination? > > Every candidate needs to be asked: > > What is more important, you being the Democratic candidate or Trump losing? Why, do you think that Biden’s the only Dem that can beat Trump? Hell, there’s a plethora of reasons for the Dems to tell Biden to get lost. Here’s [Jamelle Bouie’s](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/opinion/biden-busing-integration.html): > [@](#): > > For decades Biden gave liberal cover to white backlash. He wasn’t an incidental opponent of busing; he was a leader who helped derail integration. He didn’t just vote for punitive legislation on crime and drugs; he wrote it. His political persona is still informed by that past, even if he were to repudiate those positions now. Biden could lead Democrats to victory over Trump, but his political style might affirm the assumptions behind Trumpism. The outward signs of our political dysfunction would be gone, but the disease would still remain. There’s also his support for retaining the filibuster, which, along with the Green New Deal or something at least as good, should together constitute a single-issue package for anyone who doesn’t want to see the world burn up during their children’s lifetimes: a Green New Deal to save the planet, and ditching the filibuster in order to pass the Green New Deal. Yeah, Biden’s awful on multiple fronts. But a lot of Americans who got clobbered in the Great Recession, got clobbered a second time by the bankruptcy ‘reforms’ that Uncle Joe inflicted on them. They should be told whose fingerprints were on them. This sham candidate needs and deserves to be unmasked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-dems-stop-fighting-with-each-other/831320.md?page=3)