# Hey Der Trihs, over here **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926 "2008-11-15T23:48:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/361 "2008-11-17T20:50:48Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > So. KGS goes to Randi, says he can read auras. The test is set up exactly how KGS wants it to be. KGS reads the aura. How exactly do we prove that he saw an aura and isn’t just making stuff up? Because presumably someone’s aura reveals something factual about them that could be independently verified. Hence my question a few posts back about what exactly he can tell about someone by looking at their aura. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/362 "2008-11-17T20:57:31Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > So how many tests should have been done? How many should he have been allowed to fail? What were the pass/fail conditions agreed to by the psychic? If this person could do what he said he could do, he wouldn’t have failed. I’d have thought a minimum of three would have been polite, after dragging his ass all the way from the UK to take his test. Doesn’t Randi’s scepticism stretch to a worldwide branch? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/363 "2008-11-17T21:21:31Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’d have thought a minimum of three would have been polite, after dragging his ass all the way from the UK to take his test. Doesn’t Randi’s scepticism stretch to a worldwide branch? He can either do it or he can’t. If he can, why didn’t he? If you will read the Challenge Rules you will understand that _no one_ has passed a preliminary test, which is what this was. And you have to pass the preliminary test to get to the actual test. He was treated just like anyone else. As for “dragging his ass,” why should Randi go to him? He’s the one offering the million. No one made the guy travel from England. And if he could do as he claimed he stood to gain a great deal. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/364 "2008-11-17T21:23:57Z")
> [@glee](#): > > So you gathered evidence under scientific conditions and thereby proved you had these abilities to others? Do tell us more. I’ve already explained, these “tests” I spoke of (which have nothing to do with auras, btw) were performed under _uncontrolled_ conditions, which of course means they can’t be repeated. However, the results _do_ suggest something very interesting, and further study (under more controllable conditions) might lead to a major scientific breakthrough…or, perhaps, nowhere. It doesn’t really matter at this point, since I’ve decided to stay on the creative writing path instead of a detour into formal education. As I said before, science can wait. Let somebody else do the dirty work. > [@](#): > > Ah, you’re a mathematician too. :smack: > What is the statistical probability that someone has committed suicide? > Could you show your working? This is a fair request. Let’s do the math: (1) The U.S. suicide rate (as of 2001) is [10.8 per 100,000](http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html), or 0.000108% (2) I don’t know how many people have taken the JREF exam, but my educated guess is around 2,000. Therefore, the statistical chance that any JREF subject has ever committed suicide (for any reason) is 0.216% (3) Naturally, we must consider that public humiliation, and loss of faith in one’s psychic ability, can be MAJOR trigger in someone’s decision to take their own life, especially if they’re near the breaking point already. I don’t know how to calculate this “X” factor, so let’s be conservative and merely double the number: 0.532%, or 1/2 of 1% – which covers ALL of Randi’s test subjects. (4) Now, the important part. I believe most suicides do NOT result in Soul Death, and even if the suicidal person wishes for Soul Death, it does not mean their wish will be granted. Therefore, let’s assume that only 1 in 10,000 suicides result in extinction of their soul – which gives us a statistical chance of 0.0000532%. That’s a pretty small number, so chances are, Randi’s soul is safe. 🆒 Still…would YOU play those odds? Remember, we’re talking about eternal damnation here!!! (Naturally, the “purification” process would not last forever – but it might _feel_ like forever, especially if the process takes place outside our common Time Dimension.) (Somebody please double-check my math…I’ve a gut feeling the decimal point was misplaced.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/365 "2008-11-17T21:29:12Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Well, you are only as young as you feel…and what you believe about the afterlife has little effect on what the afterlife really is. I suspect you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Wait, a page ago you were threatening me with dire consequences about my life. Now I’m going to be pleasantly surprised? Nothing I can do about it and no way I can believe in it, so it’s not worth thinking about. I’m content with dying and ceasing to be. It means what I do matters. This isn’t just a weird rat maze. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/366 "2008-11-17T21:39:01Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Somebody please double-check my math… [/QUOTE] Well, numerically, your only mistake was that 0.216 \* 2 = 0.432, not 0.532; conceptually, of course, none of this had anything to do with math, being basically just a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions slapped unto another like meat flaps are to make a kebab spit. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/367 "2008-11-17T21:40:51Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Wait, a page ago you were threatening me with dire consequences about my life. Now I’m going to be pleasantly surprised? **jsgoddess** , I did _not_ threaten you. All I did was make a factual statement. Please, read my words again. > [@](#): > > Nothing I can do about it and no way I can believe in it, so it’s not worth thinking about. I’m content with dying and ceasing to be. That’s the perfect attitude to have, concerning our certain mortality. Most people never reach that level of acceptance, so you’re WAY above the curve. I don’t think you have anything to worry about – indeed, it’s that attitude which lead me to say, “You’ll be pleasantly surprised.” ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/368 "2008-11-17T22:05:50Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > That’s a pretty small number, so chances are, Randi’s soul is safe. 🆒 Still…would YOU play those odds? Remember, we’re talking about eternal damnation here!!! Your premise is bullshit. Randi debunks someone’s psychic power, they commit suicide because they can’t handle it, and HIS soul is eternally damned? Even if there were souls, I highly doubt it would work that way. No one is responsible for anyone else’s personal decision to commit suicide. I don’t think Randi should stop trying to get scientific proof for psychic powers because someone else might do something crazy and self-destructive. If we lived that way, we’d all be held hostage to the fear that something we said, in good faith and the best intentions (and yes, I think Randi is acting out of good faith and intentions) pushed someone else over the edge. How do you know that your strident rantings about eternal damnation didn’t cause someone reading the SDMB to commit suicide? Answer: you dont. And even if someone did, it’s neither your fault nor your problem. Ditto for James Randi. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/369 "2008-11-17T22:31:49Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > I’ve already explained, these “tests” I spoke of (which have nothing to do with auras, btw) were performed under _uncontrolled_ conditions, which of course means they can’t be repeated. However, the results _do_ suggest something very interesting, and further study (under more controllable conditions) might lead to a major scientific breakthrough…or, perhaps, nowhere. It doesn’t really matter at this point, since I’ve decided to stay on the creative writing path instead of a detour into formal education. As I said before, science can wait. Let somebody else do the dirty work. Fascinating. It’s uncanny how closely some of your claims (e.g., the above) resemble what someone might say, were he completely full of shit. Which is not to suggest that _you_ are, of course, but the similarity is truly jarring. Perhaps some further study is warranted. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/370 "2008-11-17T23:19:31Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > No where in anything I have studied have I found the insane gibberish you’re spouting, not even in the _Malleus Maleficarum_ or _The Yellow Sign_. Don’t you mean The King In Yellow? ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/371 "2008-11-17T23:21:42Z")
With all this talk of souls feeding on each other I’m beginning to wonder if Peter Hamilton realises that large segments of his Night’s Dawn trilogy is being repeated on the SDMB as “truth”. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/372 "2008-11-17T23:46:19Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Don’t you mean The King In Yellow? I might. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/373 "2008-11-17T23:47:57Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Don’t you mean The King In Yellow? The Yellow Sign was one of the short stories in The King in Yellow. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/374 "2008-11-18T00:15:07Z")
People, people, people - no matter how eloquent a person is, no matter how intelligent they may appear, and no matter how reasonable his or her arguments may seem in tone, “batshit fucking crazy” is still a legitimate response to **KGS** , imnpfho. When “batshit fucking crazy” has been diagnosed, no amount of debate or logic is going to have an affect. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, and Batshit Fucking Crazy gotta vomit crystals and radiance all over the landscape. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/375 "2008-11-18T01:12:52Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > No one is responsible for anyone else’s personal decision to commit suicide. Really?? Are you saying the indictments against [Lori Drew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myspace_suicide) are bullshit too? > [@](#): > > How do you know that your strident rantings about eternal damnation didn’t cause someone reading the SDMB to commit suicide? It only counts if the psychological pain is _intentionally_ inflicted. And that’s what James Randi does. He pretends to be a skeptical scientist, and he’s fooled lots of people, but he doesn’t fool me. At least he’s terminating the JREF contest soon – that’s a promising sign that he’s willing to examine his life and possibly make amends to the world at large. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/376 "2008-11-18T01:29:08Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Really?? Are you saying the indictments against [Lori Drew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myspace_suicide) are bullshit too? She’s not being charged with causing the girl’s suicide nor with anything else directly related to the death. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/377 "2008-11-18T01:51:56Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > It only counts if the psychological pain is _intentionally_ inflicted. And that’s what James Randi does. Prove it. Either step up or quit with the whiny bullshit. > [@](#): > > He pretends to be a skeptical scientist, and he’s fooled lots of people, but he doesn’t fool me. Oh yeah, you’re much too smart for him. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > At least he’s terminating the JREF contest soon – that’s a promising sign that he’s willing to examine his life and possibly make amends to the world at large. Only a complete nutjob like you would think Randi has to make amends for his life. Randi has done more good in this world than most people you can mention. And what’s his reward? Some loon calling him a scammer and a sadist. Evidence. You have none. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/378 "2008-11-18T02:02:37Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Really?? Are you saying the indictments against [Lori Drew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myspace_suicide) are bullshit too? She was a child. Thus, the situations are not analogous. > [@](#): > > It only counts if the psychological pain is _intentionally_ inflicted. And that’s what James Randi does. He pretends to be a skeptical scientist, and he’s fooled lots of people, but he doesn’t fool me. At least he’s terminating the JREF contest soon – that’s a promising sign that he’s willing to examine his life and possibly make amends to the world at large. You are claiming a lot of expertise on what’s in James Randi’s mind and heart. It’s very presumptuous of you to attribute malice to what he does. You don’t like it. You feel threatened by it because you fear your beliefs being shown as false, so you kill the messenger. But you don’t know him as a person, so I can’t believe that you’re able to speak with authority about who he is. People have done the same to you in this thread and you have not taken it well. Do unto others. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/379 "2008-11-18T02:04:27Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > Prove it. Either step up or quit with the whiny bullshit. Prove what?? I said from the start that my “Soul Theory” was pure conjecture. How can I prove something I don’t necessarily believe in myself? > [@](#): > > Randi has done more good in this world than most people you can mention. Such as…? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926/380 "2008-11-18T02:08:07Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Such as…? Publicly humiliating people like you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-der-trihs-over-here/472926.md?page=20)