Believe it or not, I am sincerely glad that there is no loss or grief. I assume that your last post means that that beatiful baby is healthy and happy?
He is eternally happy. His body suffered, but his spirit has always soared.
I thought you would’ve known what I meant.
I know people who die are still aware but it was your “whats left is rotting flesh” comment that got me.
Not something you’d want to say to someone whose loved one has died.
Jeez. Make that unanimous plus one.
Lib’s grandson’s body has died. But Lib believes the material world is unimportant. What is important is that Dawson’s spirit continues to live, even thrive, with God in the spiritual realm - which is the only real and important existence.
Of course, I have to go with vanilla on this. Libertarian gains peace from his personal beliefs, but if he came up to me at my grandfather’s funeral and said ‘Ah, don’t worry, it’s just his flesh rotting’ I’d politely ask him to leave. I, too, believe in an afterlife and Heaven and all that, but at the point of grief, when I am sad to lose his companionship, his hearty laugh, his jokes, his physical presence, I don’t need someone spouting bizarre philosophies.
First, my sympathies to Lib for his loss.
UM, I’m confused. Jarbabyj. You are a professing Christian, are you not? So what is so “bizarre” about Lib’s belief that his grandson is with God in the afterlife? Mind, the “rotting flesh” comment is over the top, but his serene confidence in a beneficent god is part of the essential creed of Christians, right?
Sure, at a funeral you keenly feel the loss of a loved one, but if you are a theist, wouldn’t you feel some comfort that the deceased is not really dead, but enjoying bliss in the Divine Presence?
OK, gotcha ya.
However, if you were on the jury, would you base your decision on which of the two tacks the defense attorney took? I know I’d be very tempted to, though I’d hope I’d be able to rise above that if I were actually in that situation.
Well, I wouldn’t say that to you at your grandfather’s funeral. By the same token, I wouldn’t expect you to understand completely why my mother’s death was one of the most beautiful moments in my life. We all are talking about a third party here, commenting about the application of general moral principle to a specific instance in the news. That’s the context in which I said what I said. To the family directly, I would express my sympathies because I do, in fact, sympathize with people who mourn. But neither would I call their philosophy “bizarre”.
It is precisely the ‘rotting flesh’ comment that I have a problem with. And while I do believe that there is an afterlife, and my loved ones are no longer suffering and whathaveyou…it doesn’t diminish the physically felt loss of the living here on earth. When my husband dies, he’s going to heaven and I’ll see him there again some day, but if I suddenly woke up and didn’t have his hand to hold, or his laugh in my ear, or the sound of his voice, I WOULD BE SAD. I take COMFORT in my belief of the after life, but it doesn’t mean I’m skipping around thankful that loved ones have died.
And if someone came up to me and said “no biggie, just rotting flesh” I’d be offended because it belittles my immediate grief.
Thanks, Gobear! 
My post above, of course, was directed to Jarbaby.
and by ‘bizarre’ I’m saying that to ME I would understand that, but walking up to people you don’t know and saying ‘oh hey, those kids are still alive’ would most likely be construed as bizarre. I was speaking as an outside party.
But you were talking about behavior at a funeral, where it is unlikely that the people you meet will be complete strangers (unless you were his mistress, gay lover, or long-lost child from a sperm donation).
If a relative or friend told you at your husband’s funeral, “He watches over you and you’ll see him again in Heaven,” would you really be offended? I’m an atheist and I believe talk of the afterlife is all nonsense, but I could not imagine being angry at a well-intentioned attempt to comfort me.
of COURSE not, that’s why I said it was precisely the “ROTTING FLESH” comment that bothered me. It seems a bit morbid and, frankly disgusting for funeral time OR for comforting the grieving. Notice I posted that BEFORE Lib explained that he wouldn’t say it at a funeral.
So we can agree that A)“rotting flesh” comments are out of place at funerals and B) it’s OK to assure people their loved ones survive death.
I’m so glad we can find a point of 100 percent agreement.
I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or something, but yes, I believe both of those are true.
Criminy!
NO, I wasn’t being sarcastic; I was expressing sincere pleasure at agreeing with you.
Just shows what trying to be nice gets me.
yeah, you big jerk. I don’t need your friendship!
The problem with telling someone their loved one is “still alive,” is that if you believe in a heaven and a hell, you believe that you can’t know who is where.
So, is this comforting: “Hey, you know your dead father is now facing God’s eternal judgment and could be roasting in the fires of hell right this minute!”
I vote that “rotting flesh” comments are out of place in ANY discussion of the regrettable death of ANY human being. (I suppose people who are having gloat-fests over the longed-for death of a loathed enemy are allowed a little more latitude in that regard, as long as I don’t have to listen to them.)
Lib, I respect your religious beliefs and honor your courage in your convictions, but I gotta say that that remark was somewhat on the insensitive side. Even I was a little shocked and upset by it, and I don’t know those poor kids from Adam.
(I also hold that it’s rather insensitive to say things like “your loved one is still alive” to bereaved people who you know believe differently—not that I’m assuming Lib would do this, I just think it’s a relevant general point.
As an atheist, I wouldn’t tell a believer in the afterlife “well, your loved one is gone forever, but s/he had a good life and loved you very much” even though I’d find that appropriate and comforting if I were in the bereaved person’s position. Similarly, I would expect any sympathizer in my grief—who knew I was an atheist—to refrain from offering assertions that they’d find comforting but that they know I don’t agree with. Just say “I’m so sorry” or “You have my deepest sympathy and I love you” or something like that, but don’t get into claims about the existence of life after death, 'kay?)
I agree with that, but I also think we have to pick our battles. I have a real problem with folks who believe that every adorable kid who dies was sent to ‘be an angel’, when my theology dictates that it’s not true (all the angels that ever were or will be have already been created. The end). But if someone tells me at a funeral or during my grief that ‘god need a little angel’ by way of comfort, I"m not going to waste my energy raising a stink.
There’s a difference in being offened, like the rotting flesh comments and being sort of…theologically challenged, to me at least.