# Hey hauss, suck it up, chickenshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802 "2004-12-14T16:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/181 "2004-12-15T02:50:51Z")
Ok douchebag then you tell me how it works. Here is a [link](http://www.dunebrook.org/haven/) to help. Becuase unless you go and change the definition of words like you have already with ‘child’ and ‘baby’ its pretty fucking clear to me. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Incorrect, douchey. If a father wants custody, all he has to do is say sobefore the kid is born. If he tells a court he wants the kid, then the mother will not be allowed to dump it at a safe haven (at least not without being charged with contempt of court). One more fucking time. IF THE FATHER DOESN’T KNOW HE CAN’T CLAIM CUSTODY. Whats so fucking bad about requiring a mother to tell the fucking father before she gives up the child for adoption? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/182 "2004-12-15T02:52:27Z")
If the father doesn’t know then he’s not a fucking victim. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/183 "2004-12-15T02:53:37Z")
…and another thread devolves into an argument on where life begins with every Tom, Dick and Harry being the authority on the subject. :rolleyes: Makes me glad to be married to the only women I’ve ever had sex with (and vice versa). Much cheaper and safer in the long run. Thanks for the lesson, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/184 "2004-12-15T02:53:56Z")
And your link is about Safe Haven, dipshit, not about adoption. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/185 "2004-12-15T02:54:38Z")
Bullfuckingshit its his fucking child he has a right to know about it. Rilch- So you go up to pregnant women and ask if this is their first blastocyte? Do you ask for the name of the fetus? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/186 "2004-12-15T02:56:15Z")
What do you think they toss the dropped off babies into the trash? They hand it over to child protection services who put it up for adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/187 "2004-12-15T02:58:26Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Rilch- > > So you go up to pregnant women and ask if this is their first blastocyte? Do you ask for the name of the fetus? I’ll say “baby” or “child” on the assumption that if the woman is far enough along to be visibly pregnant, she intends to carry to term, at which point it will become a baby/child. That doesn’t **make** it a baby/child, any more than a Texan calling a soft drink “orange coke” makes orange pop into Coca-cola. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/188 "2004-12-15T03:00:38Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Bullfuckingshit its his fucking child he has a right to know about it. Cite that he has a right to know about it? If a guy is really that concerned about something like this then why isn’t he keeping track of the women he’s shagged to see if they turn up pregnant? > [@](#): > > Rilch- > > So you go up to pregnant women and ask if this is their first blastocyte? Do you ask for the name of the fetus? I do. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/189 "2004-12-15T03:03:22Z")
> [@treis](#): > > What do you think they toss the dropped off babies into the trash? They hand it over to child protection services who put it up for adoption. That’s not “putting it up for adoption,” that’s using a safe haven. I asked if you knew the _adoption_ process. You don’t. If a guy wants the kid, he only has to say so. If he never finds out he made a woman pregnant then he has only himself to blame and he hasn’t been harmed. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/190 "2004-12-15T03:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Cite that he has a right to know about it? Woot! Diogenes the legalist! You go girl! Maybe, just maybe, the poster was talking about fucking equality and justice, not the current legal system? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/191 "2004-12-15T03:17:25Z")
Rilch- I think you are giving two definitions for the same thing based on events that have yet to occur let me try with an analogy. Lets say I have two fridges that are exactly the same. One I intend to install in my house the other I am not quite sure what to do with. If I ask you what they are you will tell me in both instinces that they are refridgerators. If I decide that I am going to scrap the second one in a week it doesn’t stop being a refridgerator and start being scrap until I scrap it. Its the same with a fetus. Diogenes- > [@](#): > > IN RE: MICHAEL M. V. JUDITH M.; NY SupCt Bronx Cty, NYLJ 11/2/90 > > The Court stressed, “the parent-child relationship is an important interest that undeniably warrants deference and, absent a powerful countervailing interest, protection.” A parent’s interest in the companionship, care, custody and management of his or her children rises to a constitutionally secured right, given the centrality of family life as the focus for personal meaning and responsibility. > > A child has an \*\* equal right to be raised by the father \*\*, and must be awarded to the father if he is the better parent, or mother is not interested. [link](http://www.ancpr.org/caselaw.htm) Using a safe haven is a way for the Mother to give the child up for adoption without a chance for the father to stop her. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If he never finds out he made a woman pregnant then he has only himself to blame and he hasn’t been harmed. He certainly doesn’t have himself to blame. A women can move across the country without telling him after she finds out she is pregnant. What should he do? He can’t force her to tell him where she is going. He can’t follow around for 9 months to ensure there is no baby. It is a very reasonable requirement for a father to be informed if his child is born. As far as asking a woman the name of her fetus or blastocyte. Well thats just more evidence you are batshit insane. Ludovic- I was more talking about equality and justice but apparently its legal too. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/192 "2004-12-15T03:28:14Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Rilch- > > I think you are giving two definitions for the same thing based on events that have yet to occur let me try with an analogy. Lets say I have two fridges that are exactly the same. One I intend to install in my house the other I am not quite sure what to do with. If I ask you what they are you will tell me in both instinces that they are refridgerators. If I decide that I am going to scrap the second one in a week it doesn’t stop being a refridgerator and start being scrap until I scrap it. > > Its the same with a fetus. I disagree. “Fetus” is the medical term for something that can’t survive outside of the woman’s body. It gets its oxygen and nutrition from her. Once it’s born; that is, expelled or removed via surgery from her body, and can survive on its own, or with artificial support, then it is a baby. Until then, it’s a fetus. Call it what you like, but it’s a fetus. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/193 "2004-12-15T03:29:27Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Rilch- > > I think you are giving two definitions for the same thing based on events that have yet to occur let me try with an analogy. Lets say I have two fridges that are exactly the same. One I intend to install in my house the other I am not quite sure what to do with. If I ask you what they are you will tell me in both instinces that they are refridgerators. If I decide that I am going to scrap the second one in a week it doesn’t stop being a refridgerator and start being scrap until I scrap it. > > Its the same with a fetus. Huh? 😕 No it isn’t. Refrigerators don’t change and develop. Here’s a better analogy. You have materials for two birdhouses. You build one and complete it. The second one you abandon after two boards together. The second item never became a birdhouse. That’s how it is with a terminated pregnancy. > [@](#): > > Diogenes- > > [link](http://www.ancpr.org/caselaw.htm) > > Using a safe haven is a way for the Mother to give the child up for adoption without a chance for the father to stop her. Nothing in there says a father has a right to know he’s a father, only that a father who wants to assert rights can assert them. > [@](#): > > He certainly doesn’t have himself to blame. A women can move across the country without telling him after she finds out she is pregnant. What should he do? He can’t force her to tell him where she is going. He can’t follow around for 9 months to ensure there is no baby. It is a very reasonable requirement for a father to be informed if his child is born. If he never knows the difference, he isn’t a victim. All the more reason, though, for men to think before they put their peckers into vaginas. [qupte]As far as asking a woman the name of her fetus or blastocyte. Well thats just more evidence you are batshit insane. [/quote] Well, I do it in a joking manner. If I must talk about the pregnancy in a serious or non-smartass manner I will talk in the future tense ("Will this be your first child? What will you name it? etc.) ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/194 "2004-12-15T03:29:40Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > How do you do a paternity test on an embryo? Chorionic villus sampling (CVS) can be safely performed between 9.5 and 12.5 weeks gestation. Since the placenta has the same genes as the fetus DNA testing can be done before the window on unencumbered abortion closes (1st trimester ends at 14 weeks, 2nd at 27 weeks). > [@lavenderlemon](#): > > [Abortion]'s certainly far more responsible than having a child when you don’t have the resources to properly provide for it. Does “you” refer only to the mother… or does “you” refer to the mother, anyone she can hold liable, and any available state programs? In any event, irresponsibility isn’t illegal in and of itself. It would be interesting, though, to take the view that actioning for child support or the dole _with no change in circumstances_ would on it’s face appear to be you irresponsibility endangering the welfare of a child (or child to be)… generating a reasoning for the state to take the child into protective custody. > [@treis](#): > > Child and Baby also refer to fetuses. Don’t try to be coy and pretend you can substitute one word for another with different connotations and not change content of the message. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No they don’t. Don’t try to be coy and pretend you’re trying to be technically correct. Pro-choice folks have their preferred terminology for the exact same reasons as the Pro-Lifers… to provoke a particular emotional reaction to the subject. I say we simply refer to the mass of alien tissue in a woman’s uterus by what makes up the bulk of it: _placenta_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/195 "2004-12-15T03:38:41Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > Chorionic villus sampling (CVS) can be safely performed between 9.5 and 12.5 weeks gestation. Since the placenta has the same genes as the fetus DNA testing can be done before the window on unencumbered abortion closes (1st trimester ends at 14 weeks, 2nd at 27 weeks).Does “you” refer only to the mother… or does “you” refer to the mother, anyone she can hold liable, and any available state programs? That’s not an embryo, it’s a fetus and that procedure calls for piercing the placenta. It’s a painful and risky procedure which cannot be ethically done solely for a paternity test. It would also force a woman to bear a pregnancy that she doesn’t want for longer than she wanted to bear and conceivably longer than is safe for an easy termination. “You” refers to any hypothetical person who would claim to be the father. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/196 "2004-12-15T03:49:20Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > Don’t try to be coy and pretend you can substitute one word for another with different connotations and not change content of the message. I am not being coy I realize that these words have different connotations. I take issue when you deny legimitate and commonly used definitions of words. Diogenes- Don’t try to divert the debate into semantics about words. If you really think that a father has no right (in the ethical/moral sense) to know if he has a child than I won’t be able to convince you. It is such as basic idea to me I can’t begin to explain why I feel he has that right. If you can give me your reasoning behind why he shouldn’t have this right I can respond. The fact still remains that a woman can have a man’s child and give it up for adoption without him ever knowing. It not only deprives a father out of the joy of raising his kid it deprives the kid of his father. On preview: Now you are an expert on a test that 9 minutes ago you didn’t know existed? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/197 "2004-12-15T03:56:54Z")
> [@treis](#): > > …Diogenes- Don’t try to divert the debate into semantics about words… But you have diverted the debate with your pro-life hysteria. What we _were_ talking about is the moral and legal obligations of a father to be to support the child to be. Perhaps you would like to go start a thread in great debates over the abortion issue. I am sure that issue hasn’t been run into the motherfucking ground yet. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/198 "2004-12-15T04:01:05Z")
pro-life hysteria? I am just calling a spade a spade here. That fetus is your child and when you abort it you kill it. Whats hysterical about that? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/199 "2004-12-15T04:03:19Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Diogenes- Don’t try to divert the debate into semantics about words. You brought it up. “Child. It’s a child.” “It’s also a baby.” You used [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) to make your point, not **Dio**. ---
**Author:** ![Jessity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jessity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jessity)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/200 "2004-12-15T04:04:33Z")
> [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > \ > The mother cannot deny the father the right to see the child. If she tries to, he has the right to go to court and the law will see to it that he sees the kid. (Unless he’s proven unfit to) Just so you know… My brother took his child’s mother to court because she denied him visitation on one of his COURT ORDERED weekends. The judge threw it out, said he (brother) was being petty and he wanted them (at 15 and 17) to be “mature” about the situation. Here (Ohio) the father is responsible for ALL court costs, even if the mother is in the wrong. So essentially my younger brother pays child support, has full medical, dental and vision insurance on his child, pays all the court costs, had to pay for the paternity tests, etc. How is that fair? I know fathers in similar situations who can’t afford the court costs every time their child/childrens mother denies their visitation - and are called “deadbeats” because they’re not “doing something” about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=11)