# Hey hauss, suck it up, chickenshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802 "2004-12-14T16:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/201 "2004-12-15T04:04:38Z")
This is why I stay out of the Pit… ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/202 "2004-12-15T04:07:20Z")
> [@treis](#): > > The fact still remains that a woman can have a man’s child and give it up for adoption without him ever knowing. Yes, she _can_, just like a man _can_ skip out on a kid he fathered. Doesn’t mean that it’s legal or they’ll get away with it, however. I cannot remember the names of this particular case, but I’m pretty sure I’ve got the basics right (and I hope someone else who remembers more can come up with a cite): A woman gets pregnant, doesn’t tell the father, puts the kid up for adoption. A time later (at least a few years, I think) the woman and man reconcile, and she tells him that she put their kid up for adoption. He decides he wants the kid back, since, after all, he never gave up his parental rights. They successfully sue the adoptive parents and get the kid back. So when the guy _finds out_ that his kid has been given up for adoption, he can get it back (or at least has a shot at trying). Others have mentioned that if he doesn’t _know_ that he is a father, this often is partly his fault (though not always). He’s not interested in the woman anymore, he doesn’t stick around long enough to find out if she got knocked up, so who is to blame for him not knowing about her condition? And in cases where he leaves and she can’t find him—I should think that she’s got a right to do whatever she thinks is best. After all, he’s plain _not around_ to consult, and time is of the essence. However, we know of women who knowingly skip out on a man before he can be asked if he wants to be involved in the child’s life, and that sucks. When a woman does this, it is wrong (and, unfortunately, not always easy to discover), but the point is, it’s still wrong. Just like the deadbeat dad who somehow gets away with never paying child support. He _can_ do it and _maybe_ get away with it, but he’s a scumbag if he does. And so is a woman if she doesn’t tell a man that he’s a daddy (with the exception of situations where she’s afraid for her kid’s safety or something). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/203 "2004-12-15T04:11:31Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Now you are an expert on a test that 9 minutes ago you didn’t know existed? I knew the test existed. It wasn’t an answer to my question. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/204 "2004-12-15T04:12:55Z")
> [@treis](#): > > pro-life hysteria? I am just calling a spade a spade here. That fetus is your child and when you abort it you kill it. Whats hysterical about that? When asked a question like this, it becomes apparent that the ideological gulf between myself and the person asking the question is insurmountable. I will try though. You see, as an open minded and analytical person, I can empathize with folks that hold a different view on abortion than I do (Pro-choice BTW). My experience has been that this is not true from the Pro-life side, so I really don’t know that we will ever find common ground. What I will say is that the last time I checked there is no empirical evidence that states when a developing fetus becomes a human. Because I trust empirical evidence rather that the colleted superstitions of Paleolithic nomads, I say that the jury is still out and that you stating opinion as if it were fact is not only intellectually lazy but is also a fine example of everything that is contemptible the anti-intellectual society in which we live. Again, you are hijacking this thread. If you want to go open a Great Debate have at it. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/205 "2004-12-15T04:20:14Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Again, you are hijacking this thread. If you want to go open a Great Debate have at it. Yes. Please. If I had to choose, I would be on the pro-life side, (though I can certainly sympathize with the other side). I do not think this is a necessary hijack. What? Is this a new debating tactic amongst the fervent pro-life groups? If so, it isn’t working. Advocating more irresponsibility and selfishness—advocating screwing over _more_ innocent kids—just to prove a point, well, it isn’t a good tactic. You aren’t _really_ for this blatant abandonment of children. You aren’t _really_ for the idea that men should be responsibility- and consequence-free. It’s an appalling position to take and I’m sure you know it. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/206 "2004-12-15T04:24:48Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s not an embryo, it’s a fetus and that procedure calls for piercing the placenta. It’s a painful and risky procedure which cannot be ethically done solely for a paternity test. It would also force a woman to bear a pregnancy that she doesn’t want for longer than she wanted to bear and conceivably longer than is safe for an easy termination. What I find interesting is that it says it can “safely” be done at 9.5 weeks. I can’t imagine the safety of the procedure changes considerably for the mother… so I assume the “unsafe” aspects refer to a risk of damage to the placenta. Since the women in this hypothetical wish to terminate, they’d probably be willing to accept a greater level of risk to the placenta… so it probably could be done prior to the eighth week. Anyway, I was just answering your question of how you could paternity test an embryo (which on the first go round I saw listed as acceptable terminology up to 12 weeks). > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > “You” refers to any hypothetical person who would claim to be the father. Thanks for the input, but I’ll wait for **lavenderlemon** ’s explanation for her comment. _ **I invite all of you to MPSIMS for my next post.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/207 "2004-12-15T04:25:25Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > … Advocating more irresponsibility and selfishness—advocating screwing over _more_ innocent kids—just to prove a point, well, it isn’t a good tactic… Well sure. You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs (or is that murder?). ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/208 "2004-12-15T04:27:49Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > Yes, she _can_, just like a man _can_ skip out on a kid he fathered. Doesn’t mean that it’s legal or they’ll get away with it, however. It is perfectly legal for her to drop her child off at one of these Baby safe places where the consent of the father is not required. > [@yosemite](#): > > I cannot remember the names of this particular case, but I’m pretty sure I’ve got the basics right (and I hope someone else who remembers more can come up with a cite): A woman gets pregnant, doesn’t tell the father, puts the kid up for adoption. A time later (at least a few years, I think) the woman and man reconcile, and she tells him that she put their kid up for adoption. He decides he wants the kid back, since, after all, he never gave up his parental rights. They successfully sue the adoptive parents and get the kid back. How is this a good situation? All that trauma on the child could have been avoided if the father was informed of the child at its birth. > [@yosemite](#): > > So when the guy _finds out_ that his kid has been given up for adoption, he can get it back (or at least has a shot at trying). Others have mentioned that if he doesn’t _know_ that he is a father, this often is partly his fault (though not always). Thats the problem though he can’t get it back becuase there is no way to know where the child went. > [@yosemite](#): > > He’s not interested in the woman anymore, he doesn’t stick around long enough to find out if she got knocked up, so who is to blame for him not knowing about her condition? It depends on the situation. If she moves across the country 2 weeks after they had sex its her fault. If the man moves across the country 2 weeks after they have sex its his fault. There is all sorts of grey area inbetween here but I don’t think it matters. There should be a legitimate effort to find the father of a child that is born. > [@yosemite](#): > > And in cases where he leaves and she can’t find him?I should think that she’s got a right to do whatever she thinks is best. After all, he’s plain _not around_ to consult, and time is of the essence. If there was a legitimate effort to find the father and they can’t then yes the mother gets to decide. > [@yosemite](#): > > However, we know of women who knowingly skip out on a man before he can be asked if he wants to be involved in the child’s life, and that sucks.When a woman does this, it is wrong (and, unfortunately, not always easy to discover), but the point is, it’s still wrong. Just like the deadbeat dad who somehow gets away with never paying child support. He _can_ do it and _maybe_ get away with it, but he’s a scumbag if he does. And so is a woman if she doesn’t tell a man that he’s a daddy (with the exception of situations where she’s afraid for her kid’s safety or something). I agree 100% with this. > [@Binarydrone](#): > > You see, as an open minded and analytical person, I can empathize with folks that hold a different view on abortion than I do (Pro-choice BTW). My experience has been that this is not true from the Pro-life side, so I really don’t know that we will ever find common ground. > > What I will say is that the last time I checked there is no empirical evidence that states when a developing fetus becomes a human. Because I trust empirical evidence rather that the colleted superstitions of Paleolithic nomads, I say that the jury is still out and that you stating opinion as if it were fact is not only intellectually lazy but is also a fine example of everything that is contemptible the anti-intellectual society in which we live. Let me preface this by saying I think legally abortion should be allowed but I am morally opposed to it. I just hate it when people use terminology that is designed to mask what is really happening. Saying I just killed my unborn child is a lot harder to say than I just aborted my fetus. Its the same as calling the invasion of Iraq a liberation, calling communist governments ‘peoples republics’, firing people as ‘downsizing’. All I ask for is for people to be honest with themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/209 "2004-12-15T04:30:47Z")
_deep breath_ I’ve been **hauss**. I’ve gotten that news. I’ve lain awake at night- not slept for a week, occasionally- praying for a miscarriage. Does that make me a bad person? Possibly. Have I heard the same thing from each of the other guys I’ve known since who found themselves in that position? Yes. I also wondered if it was possible to weasel out of the responsibility. I sought legal advice. In the end, I realized what I was doing and accepted that _my_ choices had led me to my situation, and nobody else’s. I dropped most of my classes, found a full-time job, and started sending her money. (She’d panicked too and left the state to be with family). By all means, tell **hauss** he’s being foolish- but don’t judge him. At the age I presume him to be at, fight or flight seem like your only options at first. Since some of you will presumably be curious- for this is not something I’ve spoken of on the Boards before- she chose to abort. I stood outside the clinic for nine hours, listening to the protestors scream “baby-killer!”. Eventually they relented and shared a cup of coffee with me. It was, perhaps one of the more surreal experiences of my life. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/210 "2004-12-15T04:35:16Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > What I find interesting is that it says it can “safely” be done at 9.5 weeks. I can’t imagine the safety of the procedure changes considerably for the mother… so I assume the “unsafe” aspects refer to a risk of damage to the placenta. Since the women in this hypothetical wish to terminate, they’d probably be willing to accept a greater level of risk to the placenta… so it probably could be done prior to the eighth week. The procedure is not done _solely_ for paternity testing. There is a non-zero risk of injury to the woman and the fetus. The procedure is only performed to test for genetic abnormalities or birth defects. There is about a 1% chance of miscarriage. If the goal is to save the fetus for some control freak sperm donor then it would be pretty stupid to risk the fetus to save it. > [@](#): > > Thanks for the input, but I’ll wait for **lavenderlemon** ’s explanation for her comment. Sorry, I quoted the whole post and since the text window deletes nested quotes it seemed like that question was a follow up addressed to me. Sloppy reading on my part. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/211 "2004-12-15T04:35:59Z")
> [@treis](#): > > … I just hate it when people use terminology that is designed to mask what is really happening. Saying I just killed my unborn child is a lot harder to say than I just aborted my fetus. Its the same as calling the invasion of Iraq a liberation, calling communist governments ‘peoples republics’, firing people as ‘downsizing’. All I ask for is for people to be honest with themselves. But that isn’t what folks that are morally opposed to abortion are doing. What they are doing is being emotionally manipulative and trying to frame the debate in their terms. Granted, I am not going to sit here and claim that the Pro-choice side isn’t guilty of the same crime, but either way it is sleazy. It is factually correct to say “I had an abortion”. Period. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/212 "2004-12-15T04:40:41Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It is perfectly legal for her to drop her child off at one of these Baby safe places where the consent of the father is not required. And the _reason_ for that is to prevent child _death_. It’s not to give a mom a “free pass” at responsibility. This law only came to be because authorities were sick of finding newborn dead babies in dumpsters. It’s an imperfect attempt to help save lives. Are you against that? Because I am not. And as someone else has mentioned before, either parent can drop the kid off. It’s basically a way to say, “Don’t kill the kid, give it to us.” That’s all it is. > [@](#): > > How is this a good situation? All that trauma on the child could have been avoided if the father was informed of the child at its birth. **OF COURSE**. No one is advocating a woman not informing a man that he’s a daddy. It’s a scummy thing to do in a lot of cases. Just like it’s a scummy thing to skip out on a woman who’s about to have your kid. It’s **SCUMMY**. And I don’t believe the US government is telling women, “It’s okay if you don’t want to tell the dad. Just give the kid up without his consent. His opinion doesn’t count.” She _can’t do that_ with the sanction of the government. _She CAN’T DO THAT_, with the exception of the hospital drop off laws (in which case the government thinks it’s better to drop off the kid without the dad’s consent rather than _kill_ it) . She can _try_ to get away with not telling the dad, and often she will, but so can a guy when he skips out on his kids, and many do. > [@](#): > > There should be a legitimate effort to find the father of a child that is born. No shit Sherlock. I don’t think anyone here thinks it’s no big deal when a woman doesn’t tell a man that he’s about to be a dad. It SUCKS when she does that and she should be (figuratively) strung up by her toes. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/213 "2004-12-15T04:47:50Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > Chorionic villus sampling (CVS) can be safely performed between 9.5 and 12.5 weeks gestation. Since the placenta has the same genes as the fetus DNA testing can be done before the window on unencumbered abortion closes (1st trimester ends at 14 weeks, 2nd at 27 weeks).Does “you” refer only to the mother… or does “you” refer to the mother, anyone she can hold liable, and any available state programs? I’m enough of a Liberal to state that I believe in helping people in trouble. But I’m also enough of a Conservative to state that I’d prefer someone without the means to raise a child have an abortion rather than go on the dole. > [@](#): > > In any event, irresponsibility isn’t illegal in and of itself. It would be interesting, though, to take the view that actioning for child support or the dole _with no change in circumstances_ would on it’s face appear to be you irresponsibility endangering the welfare of a child (or child to be)… generating a reasoning for the state to take the child into protective custody.Don’t try to be coy and pretend you can substitute one word for another with different connotations and not change content of the message.Don’t try to be coy and pretend you’re trying to be technically correct. Could you please translate this paragraph from vague to English? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/214 "2004-12-15T04:55:58Z")
Binarydrone- Aboslutely. I don’t deny that the child/fetus is just a blob of cells at most abortions. Others do deny that this child/fetus is a child. I take issue with that and did my best to prove them wrong. > [@yosemite](#): > > And the reason for that is to prevent child death. It’s not to give a mom a “free pass” at responsibility. This law only came to be because authorities were sick of finding newborn dead babies in dumpsters. It’s an imperfect attempt to help save lives. Are you against that? Because I am not. And as someone else has mentioned before, either parent can drop the kid off. It’s basically a way to say, “Don’t kill the kid, give it to us.” That’s all it is. I don’t know. I don’t like giving the mother a legal way out becuase of illegal actions of other mothers. I also don’t like that mothers can give up their child without informing the father at all. If a few fathers across the nation killed their child to get out of child support should we give fathers a legal way to get out of child to support to prevent future deaths? > [@yosemite](#): > > She CAN’T DO THAT, with the exception of the hospital drop off laws (in which case the government thinks it’s better to drop off the kid without the dad’s consent rather than kill it) . She can try to get away with not telling the dad, and often she will, but so can a guy when he skips out on his kids, and many do If we close this loophole somehow and require a reasonable effort to find the father I will hop aboard. Maybe making the mother provide a name of the father or some information about him would be a good comprimise. > [@yosemite](#): > > No shit Sherlock. I don’t think anyone here thinks it’s no big deal when a woman doesn’t tell a man that he’s about to be a dad. It SUCKS when she does that and she should be (figuratively) strung up by her toes. Diogenes does. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/215 "2004-12-15T05:28:33Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t know. I don’t like giving the mother a legal way out becuase of illegal actions of other mothers. I also don’t like that mothers can give up their child without informing the father at all. Well, I don’t like it either, but if they are in such a selfish/distraught/loony state that they consider dumping their kid on the side of the road, inticing them to dump the kid off at the hospital (no questions asked) seems to be an attempt to do _something_ positive, and I cannot see a downside to it. (Dead baby in dumpster vs. Live baby—but abandoned by parents—at hospital. Which to choose, which to choose . . . ) It seemed like we heard stories on the news regularly about the discovery of another dead newborn found in the park, found in a dumpster, or whatever. If it were a few isolated incidents, I’m sure nobody would have come up with such a law. > [@](#): > > If a few fathers across the nation killed their child to get out of child support should we give fathers a legal way to get out of child to support to prevent future deaths? First you’d have to give me plenty of cites showing that fathers are doing this with depressing regularity before we could discuss what should be done to help prevent it from happening again. As it is, most deadbeat dads or dads who want to shirk their responsibility are nowhere _near_ the kids they so desperately do not want to support, therefore I doubt such a thing ever going to be an issue. > [@](#): > > If we close this loophole somehow and require a reasonable effort to find the father I will hop aboard. Maybe making the mother provide a name of the father or some information about him would be a good comprimise. I don’t know. I am not familiar with the circumstances surrounding these people turning in their babies. I assume that the authorities have at least a decent clue as to what will _work_ best to avoid more deaths, and I’m behind them all the way if it helps prevent babies in dumpsters. > [@](#): > > Diogenes does. You need to copy and paste where he _specifically_ says that. Because, say what you will about him, I don’t think he’s apathetic about fathers’ rights. He seems to be a pretty devoted father himself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/216 "2004-12-15T05:52:27Z")
hat I specifically said was that I didn’t think there was any legal right for a man to necessarily know that he is a father. I’m not saying it’s _morally_ ok for a woman not to tell a man that he knocked her up, I’m saying that I don’t think there’s a _legal_ obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/217 "2004-12-15T06:04:24Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Fucking is 50% his responsibility. Of course, as you’ll so often hear in the debates about abortion ‘consent to sex is not consent to’ fatherhood. More importantly, fucking is 50% _her_ responsibility. Do I think hauss is a brain-dead, dick-ruled moron for not taking precautions? Yes, yes I do. Do I think his girlfriend is even worse for not taking precautions? You betcha. Any girl in this day and age mindless enough to have unprotected sex in an unstable relationship (you’ll note in his post that marriage/long term relationship was NOT on the cards) and then go all ‘oh! I’m pregnant! Who would have thought it?’ evokes a sense of visceral disgust in me. And now this girl and this guy, neither of whom are intelligent or responsible enough to take some kind of care for their sexual safety - for Og’s sake, it’s 2004, not 1964! We know all about STDs now! - let alone pregnancy, are going to be responsible for a baby. No matter how you look at this, it’s a fucked-up situation. Honestly, I don’t know if anyone should be required to pay for her to have her baby. Not the father, and \*\*certainly \*\* not the government. As a woman, I think it’s reprehensible for a woman to claim to ‘accidentally’ get pregnant. If you’re on the pill and you’ve used a condom, _then_ it’s an accident. But if you’re not taking precautions, it’s bloody intentional, and nobody should be forced to subsidize your quest for motherhood. But still. What kind of low-life cretin knowingly enters a sexual relationship without taking precautions and then runs from the inevitable result? No matter which angle I view this from, all I feel is disgust and sorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/218 "2004-12-15T06:39:20Z")
> [@Khiadra](#): > > More importantly, fucking is 50% _her_ responsibility. Do I think hauss is a brain-dead, dick-ruled moron for not taking precautions? Yes, yes I do. > > Do I think his girlfriend is even worse for not taking precautions? You betcha. > > Any girl in this day and age mindless enough to have unprotected sex in an unstable relationship (you’ll note in his post that marriage/long term relationship was NOT on the cards) and then go all ‘oh! I’m pregnant! Who would have thought it?’ evokes a sense of visceral disgust in me. > > And now this girl and this guy, neither of whom are intelligent or responsible enough to take some kind of care for their sexual safety - for Og’s sake, it’s 2004, not 1964! We know all about STDs now! - let alone pregnancy, are going to be responsible for a baby. No matter how you look at this, it’s a fucked-up situation. > > Honestly, I don’t know if anyone should be required to pay for her to have her baby. Not the father, and \*\*certainly \*\* not the government. As a woman, I think it’s reprehensible for a woman to claim to ‘accidentally’ get pregnant. If you’re on the pill and you’ve used a condom, _then_ it’s an accident. But if you’re not taking precautions, it’s bloody intentional, and nobody should be forced to subsidize your quest for motherhood. > > But still. What kind of low-life cretin knowingly enters a sexual relationship without taking precautions and then runs from the inevitable result? > > No matter which angle I view this from, all I feel is disgust and sorrow. I’m in agreement with you here, for the most part. I think we absolve people of too much personal responsibility, but I’m not sure what the answer is. I damn sure know that I always ask my partner if they are pro-life/ pro-choice before we sleep together. This is because I would want to respect my partner’s pro-life stance, and I would have a difficult time having an abortion in that instance. On the rare occasion where I’ve dated someone pro-life, I know I’ve been vigilant with my birth control, as I always am, but was on a low level terrified that something might go wrong. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be a man and have (really) only the condom you can fully put your faith in. Short of monitoring your girlfriend’s birth control habits, that’s all you’ve got, and I know way too many women who are lacksidasical about their birth control. I figure the solution is to have the discussion before hand. Do you want children? If I accidentally get pregnant, will you be there to support me? If you don’t like the answers, don’t fuck that particular guy. - Rebekkah ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/219 "2004-12-15T06:39:51Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > \ > I’ve gotten that news. I’ve lain awake at night- not slept for a week, occasionally- praying for a miscarriage. Does that make me a bad person? Possibly. Have I heard the same thing from each of the other guys I’ve known since who found themselves in that position? Yes. > > I also wondered if it was possible to weasel out of the responsibility. I sought legal advice. > > \ > > By all means, tell **hauss** he’s being foolish- but don’t judge him. At the age I presume him to be at, fight or flight seem like your only options at first. _dismounts from the moral high horse, and takes a deep breath_ You know, reading that I’ve probably been too harsh. As a teen I was far more mature than my peers, and so I’m not really equipped to be empathetic towards those that were impulsive and thoughtless. There just isn’t that common ground to view things from. It doesn’t give me the right to get all morally outraged though. You’re quite right, the guy is presumably young, and may well knuckle down and turn this into a learning and growth experience for himself. When the world suddenly blindsides you for the first time, it can be a big shock and the first reaction is probably to flee. I’m still really distressed by the fact that it was a completely avoidable problem, but without the capacity to relate to the scenario I shouldn’t have made a judgment call on the individuals themselves. For the record, though, I still firmly believe that any woman electing not to take steps to avoid pregnancy and then deciding to keep the child shouldn’t receive financial benefits for doing so. In this day and age, with ready access to contraceptives and even morning-after pills, there really is no excuse to have a child you’re not prepared for. And if a person is pro-life and can’t bear the thought of an abortion, the onus for avoiding conception falls entirely on their shoulders. I’ll say that again: If you personally cannot handle the idea of aborting a foetus - even at the blob of cells stage - then YOU and only you are responsible for ensuring non-conception. You can’t take the pro-life stance and then say ‘oh, but it’s someone else’s responsibility to see it doesn’t happen’ or ‘Well, I asked him to wear a condom, but I guess it had a hole’. Get an IUD or take the pill, AND make him wear a condom (the condom should be mandatory unless the relationship is both monogamous and long-term, anyway). Then, and only then, can you honestly claim it was both an ‘accident’ and ‘unavoidable’. For the record: I put my money where my mouth is. I have polycystic ovaries, damage to the uterus and oviducts, a blood cortisol level which - so I’ve been told - would literally stress a foetus to death and cause a natural abortion… assuming it could even implant in the uterus, which isn’t really likely. Nonetheless, with all those factors making my chance of conception (and subsequent carrying to term) phenomenally unlikely, I still have an IUD. I don’t want to ever be in the position of having to decide whether I felt \*my \* ‘blob of cells’ was a baby, so I ensure it doesn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/220 "2004-12-15T06:42:43Z")
> [@Khiadra](#): > > Do I think his girlfriend is even worse for not taking precautions? You betcha. > > Any girl in this day and age mindless enough to have unprotected sex in an unstable relationship… > > And now this girl and this guy, neither of whom are intelligent or responsible enough to take some kind of care for their sexual safety - for Og’s sake, it’s 2004, not 1964! > > if you’re not taking precautions, it’s bloody intentional, and nobody should be forced to subsidize your quest for motherhood. > > But still. What kind of low-life cretin knowingly enters a sexual relationship without taking precautions and then runs from the inevitable result? How do you know they didn’t take precautions? I haven’t seen him address that issue, unless I missed it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=12)