# Hey hauss, suck it up, chickenshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802 "2004-12-14T16:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/221 "2004-12-15T12:05:57Z")
> [@](#): > > **lavenderlemon** said: > Where do you live that a mother can give up a child for adoption without a father’s consent? Pennsylvania, where Baby Safe Haven gives her that option by allowing her to drop the newborn off at any hospital, no questions asked not even her name. > [@](#): > > **Diogenes** said: > A woman CANNOT give up a child for adoption against the will of the father. All he has to do is assert his rights. However, if no one is willing to come forward and identify himself as the father or contest the adoption then there is no reason to get his permission. It’d be pretty tough for him to ‘assert his rights’ when the kid was anonymously dropped off at some hospital somewhere and nobody knows where. > [@](#): > > **Rilchiam** said: > catsix, you’re making it sound as if hauss’s GF is asking him to pay 100% of the cost of raising the child. He’ll only be required to share the expense. It doesn’t much matter to me that he’s ‘only being asked to share’. He doesn’t want a kid and she does. Being that she is the _only one who wants the kid_ she should be the only one to pay for it. > [@](#): > > **Diogenes** said: > And your link is about Safe Haven, dipshit, not about adoption. Where do you think the Safe Haven babies go? > [@](#): > > Nothing in there says a father has a right to know he’s a father, Well, that’s pretty fucking unfortunate, isn’t it? I suppose you think it’s quite fair that he doesn’t have a right to know and could possibly find out 13 years after the fact that he owes back support? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/222 "2004-12-15T14:18:21Z")
If a father wants the kid, he only has to say so. If the pig can’t keep track of the ass he’s tapped long enough to know he’s knocked one of them up then he doesn’t much give a fuck anyway. You people are seriously fucking deluded about safe havens, by the way. Do you have any idea how rare it is? Once more without feeling, a woman CANNOT put up a kid for adoption without the permission of the father. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/223 "2004-12-15T14:22:12Z")
> [@](#): > > **Diogenes** said: > If the pig can’t keep track of the ass he’s tapped long enough to know he’s knocked one of them up then he doesn’t much give a fuck anyway. Why would you assume it’s entirely his fault if he doesn’t know where she is and that he’s automatically a pig? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/224 "2004-12-15T14:22:50Z")
> [@](#): > > It doesn’t much matter to me that he’s ‘only being asked to share’. He doesn’t want a kid and she does. Being that she is the only one who wants the kid she should be the only one to pay for it. He shouldn’t have fucked her then, Bottom line. He relinquished his right not to be a parent the second he stuck his dick in her. The decision to fuck a woman is, in itself, a decision to accept responsibility for any pregnancies. I’m very glad that we put scum like this in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/225 "2004-12-15T14:27:24Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Why would you assume it’s entirely his fault if he doesn’t know where she is and that he’s automatically a pig? Why do you have to keep inventing ludicrous scenarios to justify your despicible opinions? If he never finds out, he isn’t a victim. If he doesn’t want to take a chance that some woman will move out of state and secretly drop off a baby at safe haven (insert rolleyes) then he has only to keep his penis out of other people’s vaginas. ---
**Author:** ![MrFantsyPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MrFantsyPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFantsyPants)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/226 "2004-12-15T14:36:34Z")
Oh for fucks sake, people, can’t we just agree that there is no way that these situations can be resolved fairly. No matter what, someone is going to get trampled on. So we set things up to pick the least of all injustices, and stick with that. Dio, I agree with your conclusions, but your method for getting there is unnecessarily caustic, and is only serving to push the two sides further apart. Try to at least see the other side of the argument and acknowledge that it is a crappy (but necessary) position to be in. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/227 "2004-12-15T14:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > **Diogenes** said: > He relinquished his right not to be a parent the second he stuck his dick in her. Well then we might a well say that a woman relinquished her right not to be a parent the moment she let a dick get stuck in her. That’s far more equitable than ‘One person makes the decisions, forces another to pay for them.’ ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/228 "2004-12-15T14:47:09Z")
> [@](#): > > **Diogenes** said: > If he never finds out, he isn’t a victim. He very well could be, thirteen years later when she wants thousands in ‘back child support’ for a kid she _chose to raise alone and not tell him about_. Why don’t you think it’s possible for a man to be victimized by a woman in that regard? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/229 "2004-12-15T14:55:44Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If he never finds out, he isn’t a victim. If he doesn’t want to take a chance that some woman will move out of state and secretly drop off a baby at safe haven (insert rolleyes) then he has only to keep his penis out of other people’s vaginas. Bullshit. Women don’t get to do whatever they want just becuase a guy had sex with her. If I steal 20$ from you and you don’t realize you are the victim of a robbery. If I rape you while you are intoxicated and you don’t remember it you are still a rape victim. If I shoot you in the head while you are sleeping you don’t realize it you are still the victim of a murder. Your total disregard of a fathers rights all the while pinning the blame and responsibility on him for the pregnancy is appalling. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/230 "2004-12-15T15:16:28Z")
> [@Berkut](#): > > How do you know they didn’t take precautions? I haven’t seen him address that issue, unless I missed it. This is what I was going to ask. Sometimes you can be as careful as you can, and still conceive. The only 100% method is abstinence. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/231 "2004-12-15T15:45:57Z")
Hm. This is a sticky issue. No pun intended. Going solely on **hauss** ’s apparent attitude, he’s kind-of an irresponsible jerk. Under current laws, yes, he is required to step up and support the kid. But … Hm. I’d never really considered fully the inequity of parental roles with regard to this issue. Let me first say that I’m Pro-Choice, because I don’t believe the government has the right to mandate to a woman that she must carry a pregnancy to term… **but** I’d want any woman I had influence over, who was considering abortion, to consider other options. I don’t find it essentially immoral, just… distasteful. Unethical. Dodging personal responsibility. Of course, I’ve never been in that situation, so it’s impossible for me to say that my view wouldn’t change. Looking at it from that perspective, potential fathers are really getting screwed here. But how can one alleviate the imbalance without giving rise to a culture of “hump’em and leave’em” types? Well, I think there would have to be a window of opportunity for this ‘abortion of responsibility’. Similar to that of an actual abortion. There would have to be laws mandating that a pregnant mother, if she expects to receive support with a child, notify the father before the end of the first trimester, else he is absolved of obligation. (Of course, were I in that situation, even given an opportunity to get “out”, I wouldn’t.) I don’t know about the symptoms of pregnancy enough to be 100% of that proposed deadline, though - is it possible for a woman to be three months pregnant and not notice? There could be an exception made, if so… requiring her to notify the father, if she expects support, as soon as she learns of the pregnancy after that time. It’s important that the father respond, stating whether or not he will take financial responsibility, soon enough that the woman still has abortion available as an option to her. And he has no say in her choice on that matter - no matter how much he may want the child, ultimately, the balance of the power lies with her with regard to an abortion. Those advancing the idea that this suggestion is the equivalent of allowing people to abandon children at 5, 10, or 14 years of age, are being intentionally silly, setting up strawmen. That’s no more solid an analogy than saying the right to abort is equivalent to letting parents legally kill their teenager on a whim. No one, as far as I can see, has suggested an open-ended opt-out period for the father. For those suggesting that for many potential mothers who don’t believe abortion is right, therefore it is not a real choice … the same is true of this opt-out for fathers. Many believe (obviously, from this thread) that it isn’t right, and therefore isn’t a choice. No matter how strenuously you believe the option is wrong, however - it is still an option. If you are of a moral character that will not let you accept that choice, no matter what - then keep your pants on, male or female, or take appropriate precautions. Then there was the notion advanced that suggested it would lead to a horde of “players”, men screwing whoever they want, consequence-free. Lying about vasectomies, etc. Well, as the system stands, what prevents a woman from saying “Don’t bother with a condom. I’m sterile.” and the phoning up the father a few months later, demanding her first check? If men were given the same opt-out option, this sort of manipulation wouldn’t work. Lying about fertility to dodge birth control methods is an option available to both sexes, the difference being that women can currently use it for sexual gratification OR financial gain, whereas men have no chance of a financial boon from such a deception. This opt-out idea would remove the chance of financial gain for women, levelling the playing field, and giving the sexes one less reason to lie to one another. The other effect, of course, would be that women would probably be a lot more cautious about deceptions like “I had a vasectomy” - since the consequence for accepting a statement like that at face value has just increased. I don’t know - it’s not a perfect system, but it may be more fair. As I said, I’m of the camp that thinks men should live up to their responsibility, but I don’t neecessarily think that should be legally mandated. I know one fellow who was forced to “do the right thing” (and when I say forced, I mean lightly coerced - no gun to his head, and he was stupid for letting it happen) after getting a girl pregnant. They married, and have had a contentious, horrible relationship ever since - she keeps him around for financial support and screws around on the side, using the kids as a wedge against him. Maybe if this sort of system was in place, things would be a little different. Maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/232 "2004-12-15T15:46:06Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Well then we might a well say that a woman relinquished her right not to be a parent the moment she let a dick get stuck in her. [/quote=] She relinquished a guarantee not to be pregnant. Fortunately, preganacies can be terminated so she has more opportunity to prevent herself from becoming a parent ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/233 "2004-12-15T15:47:22Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > He very well could be, thirteen years later when she wants thousands in ‘back child support’ for a kid she _chose to raise alone and not tell him about_. > > Why don’t you think it’s possible for a man to be victimized by a woman in that regard? He should have thought of that before he stuck his dick in her. No sympathy here. A man knows the risks up front. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/234 "2004-12-15T15:51:57Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > If she can’t afford the child, there are plenty of couples longing for a baby to raise. Why should a man subsidize her desire to raise a child, when she can deny him any part in the process by making up abuse charges or stalking charges, despite what many people in here claim? _DESIRE_ to raise a child? _DESIRE_? How about a sense of\*\* RESPONSIBILITY\*\* to raise the child she is carrying in her womb? Face it folks, the custodial parent always carries the greatest burden. I think the parent who bails is getting a fairly sweet deal. All they have to do is pay a portion of their earnings to care for the child while the custodial parent has to not only deal with financial responsibility but all the other shit that comes with raising a child. Those of you who have raised or are raising a child know what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/235 "2004-12-15T15:53:27Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Bullshit. Women don’t get to do whatever they want just becuase a guy had sex with her. What do you mean by “whatever they want?” Women have to take responsibility for their pregnancies one way or the other, either it be by termination or adoption or parenting. Her method of dealing with it is her choice becaues it’s her body. The man’s choice was made when he fucked her. > [@](#): > > If I steal 20$ from you and you don’t realize you are the victim of a robbery. If I rape you while you are intoxicated and you don’t remember it you are still a rape victim. If I shoot you in the head while you are sleeping you don’t realize it you are still the victim of a murder. Nothing is "stolen’ from a guy who never knows he was a parent. He is not injured in any way. More importantly, he has 100% control over whether this can happen to him. If he doesn’t want it to happen, all he has to do is keep his dick in his pants. Works every time. But when he decides to have sex he is assuming any and responsibilities for the consequences. > [@](#): > > Your total disregard of a fathers rights all the while pinning the blame and responsibility on him for the pregnancy is appalling. What fathers “rights” have I shown a disregard for? A father can assert his rights any time he wants. Yours and Cat’s lack of regard for women and children is what’s appalling. ---
**Author:** ![Elret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Elret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elret)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/236 "2004-12-15T16:01:48Z")
> [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > _DESIRE_ to raise a child? _DESIRE_? How about a sense of\*\* RESPONSIBILITY\*\* to raise the child she is carrying in her womb? But it wouldn’t be any less responsible of her to give the child up for adoption, like they originally agreed to do. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/237 "2004-12-15T16:10:30Z")
She basically renigged on a contract and now expects him to give her money because of it. I hardly think he’s an asshole for thinking that’s unfair. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/238 "2004-12-15T16:12:01Z")
Diogenes- > [@Digoenes the Cynic](#): > > What fathers “rights” have I shown a disregard for? A father can assert his rights any time he wants. Yours and Cat’s lack of regard for women and children is what’s appalling. A father has a right to be invovled in his childs life. A child has a right for his father to be invovled in its life. You find nothing wrong with the fact that a woman can have a child and not tell the father about it. Then 21 years later when she goes and sues for child support this is somehow O.K. in your mind. Well I am here telling you that it is not O.K. You say that a man can avoid all of this by keeping his dick in his pants. I am telling you that by having sex a man does not become merely a checkbook for the woman. > [@Diogens the Cynic](#): > > Her method of dealing with it is her choice becaues it’s her body. That is true but that does not mean its soley her choice after that child is born. Fathers have equal say in what happens to their child and should be informed so that they can exercise their voice. A woman can take advantage of a man in a drunken state for sex. If she gets pregnant she can legally shield the child from this man. 21 years later she can go to this man and sue him for back child support. All of this perfectly legal and all of it 100% morally wrong. All I am asking is for a requirement of a reasonable effort to locate and inform the father of the child. I want fathers to take responsibility for the children but I also want them to have all of the rights and privlidges that go along with that responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/239 "2004-12-15T16:16:11Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > She basically renigged on a contract and now expects him to give her money because of it. > > I hardly think he’s an asshole for thinking that’s unfair. There was no contract. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/240 "2004-12-15T16:20:19Z")
1. Men, presumably fathers, have dropped infants off at safe havens. 2. Men have contested adoptions. Men have successfully had adoptions overturned. 3. About half of the states have putative father registries. By law, the state must notify registered fathers of pending adoptions, at which time the man can either sign his rights away or contest the adoption. The laws aren’t perfect, and they aren’t always carried out, but they’re there, **treis**. What we need to do is work to get registries and notifications implemented, publicized, and enforced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=13)