# Hey hauss, suck it up, chickenshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802 "2004-12-14T16:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/261 "2004-12-15T17:52:38Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Huh? 😕 > > Nothing in there says a father has a right to know he’s a father, only that a father who wants to assert rights can assert them. > > **If he never knows the difference, he isn’t a victim.** All the more reason, though, for men to think before they put their peckers into vaginas. Bolding for emphasis. Then I guess that upskirt pics/videos have no victims either. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/262 "2004-12-15T18:06:26Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It is also fine if I refer to it as killing your child becuase using any common definition of child and kill I am correct. Common as in not medical? Not scientific? You seem to be suggesting that it’s somehow incorrect or less accurate to use scholarly, medical, bioligical, and scientific terms when talking about what many people see as a medical condition, a surgical procedure, and a matter of biology. ---
**Author:** ![ShadiRoxan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@ShadiRoxan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadiRoxan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/263 "2004-12-15T18:10:06Z")
I think some of you are so caught up with trying to find a perfect system that you’re ignoring reality. Sure there are ways that a woman can give up a child without the father’s consent. Chances are that if the father knows of this child, he doesn’t give a shit enough about it to bother to try and raise it. Or he’s denying that it could be his. For those fathers who don’t know that they have a child, do you think they would really care that much when they can’t even be bothered to maintain contact with a woman for a few weeks afterwards? What do you think most of these men would tell the woman if she came up to him a month later stating she was pregnant. Maybe a few of the men might be willing to take on the child either financially, emotionally or custodially. I’m guessing that majority of them probably either deny it or just don’t bother. Child support is a joke in reality. My father was ordered to pay about $150 a month for me. Granted that was late 80s, but what the hell is that suppose to pay for? Food? Shelter? Daycare? I think he paid maybe two payments. My mother didn’t stop visitation over it. Eventually his visitation got suspended by a judge for something other than non-payment. Several times my mother tried to go after him for back child support. He was never jailed, his wages weren’t garnished. There are a lot of cases where the father rarely pays a dime even though it’s court ordered. I doubt majority of these men have faced any jail time. The jails are over populated as is. You think the government is going to bother keeping these men behind bars when there are others who need to be punished for more severe crimes? As for her renegging on an oral agreement to place the child up for adoption, how do you know that he didn’t try to persuade her to not terminate the pregnancy under the pretense that he would support her no matter what? Adoption is not an easy thing to go through with. The mother has to fight every instinct she has in order to go through with it. The system we have might not be great, but it’s the best one we have with the reality we have. It’s set up to try to be in the best interest of the child, not the father or the mother. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/264 "2004-12-15T18:15:51Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Bolding for emphasis. > > Then I guess that upskirt pics/videos have no victims either. :rolleyes: Those are women who are being exploited. A man that can’t be bothered to find out if he’s made a woman pregnant is not being exploited or injured in any way. It’s really tiresome watching to loops and contortions some people are going through to contrive ridiculously unlikely scenarios simply to grind some kind of axe about imaginary vitimization of men. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/265 "2004-12-15T18:18:58Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Binarydrone- > > You did not state a fetus is not a child but Diogenes did. Thats how this discussion began I took issue with that. If people want to refer to aborting a fetus thats fine. It is also fine if I refer to it as killing your child becuase using any common definition of child and kill I am correct. No, you’re using a phony political and rhetorical definition of a “child” in a lame attempt to manipulate emotions. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/266 "2004-12-15T18:20:17Z")
**Diogenes** believes that a person who is deliberately kept from knowing they have a child isn’t a victim and that it’s impossible for a woman to rape a man, but I’m considered to be the nutjob? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/267 "2004-12-15T18:22:00Z")
CrankyAsAnOldMan- I am not saying that it is incorrect to use medical or scientific terminology. I am saying that it is just as accurate to use common laymans terms to describe what is happening. My argument is that we use these medical or scientific terms to shield ourselves from what is happening. Office Space is a perfect example. The consultants said they ‘fixed the glitch’ and when asked if they fired Milton by the boss they said no we ‘fixed the glitch’. It is certainly accurate to say that Milton was fired by the consultants and its just as accurate to say they fixed the glitch. But to go ahead and deny that Milton was fired is wrong. Diogenes- They aren’t ridiculously contrived scenarios they happen all the time. What is so fucking wrong with informing a father that he has a kid? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No, you’re using a phony political and rhetorical definition of a “child” in a lame attempt to manipulate emotions. No you are denying a legitimate definition of a word to aviod its messy connotations. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/268 "2004-12-15T18:27:08Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Office Space is a perfect example. The consultants said they ‘fixed the glitch’ and when asked if they fired Milton by the boss they said no we ‘fixed the glitch’. It is certainly accurate to say that Milton was fired by the consultants and its just as accurate to say they fixed the glitch. But to go ahead and deny that Milton was fired is wrong. er, but the glitch they were referring to was the computer glitch that made it so that Milton was still getting paid even though he was laid off months ago. It wasn’t a euphemism for firing Milton - there really was a glitch that got fixed. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled abortion debate. Athena, who is pro-choice whether you call it a child, a fetus, a zygote, or a pink goofimopolous. ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/269 "2004-12-15T18:31:43Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Show me an instance where a young child i.e. 0-3 years old was given sole custody to the father over the mothers objections and I will retract it. All I have are anecdotes - mother repeatedly reported to CPS for abuse and neglect and drug use. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/270 "2004-12-15T18:33:17Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > er, but the glitch they were referring to was the computer glitch that made it so that Milton was still getting paid even though he was laid off months ago. It wasn’t a euphemism for firing Milton - there really was a glitch that got fixed. Is it wrong to say that Milton was fired by the consultants though? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/271 "2004-12-15T18:35:06Z")
erhm hit reply too soon. > [@Athena](#): > > er, but the glitch they were referring to was the computer glitch that made it so that Milton was still getting paid even though he was laid off months ago. It wasn’t a euphemism for firing Milton - there really was a glitch that got fixed. Is it wrong to say that Milton was fired by the consultants though? If my company didn’t want me here anymore and stopped paying me didn’t I just get fired? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/272 "2004-12-15T18:36:00Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Is it wrong to say that Milton was fired by the consultants though? Yes, because he’d been fired months before. The consultants had nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/273 "2004-12-15T18:36:58Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Then why don’t we force her by law to provide information to the hospital. She doesn’t have to pay a dime just give us a name. If she doesn’t have a name then give us all the information she knows about him. We as in the government will attempt to track down the father and inform him. If after a reasonable effort we can’t find him we shrug our shoulders and give her custody. If the father turns up later allow him into the childs life and start making him pay child support. If a woman brings a baby to a hospital and doesn’t want to provide information, what are you going to do, tell she can’t leave the baby? Are you going to arrest her and force her to speak? Wonderful, you have no given desperate women an incentive to put their babies in dumpsters instead of bringing them to hospitals. Congratulations. It is far more important to save a baby’s life than it is to berate some desperate girl about who the daddy is. You have to make a choice. Do you want to provide a safe place for women to leave newborns or do you want to whine and bitch about the supposed “rights” of men who don’t give a fuck enough to even know they’ve knocked somebody up? (please spare me any more of your reaching hypotheticals about women leaving the state, etc. That does not reflect reality, iyt’s just grasping at straws). > [@](#): > > Try and track him down. Contact his former employer and see if they know anything. Check IRS records whatever. If they can’t find him see above. In the case of adoption, they do that. In the case of safe haven, they CAN’T do that unless they want to find babies trash cans. > [@](#): > > If you can prove he is abusive and a threat then throw his ass in jail. If you can’t prove it then inform him of his child. What are you, a fucking crack baby? The whole point of safe haven laws is to protect women who are afraid. Now you’re going to demand that they PROVE they’re in danger before they can drop these babies off? How the fuck are they supposed to prove it? Do know the first fucking thing about domestic violence? Do you think that these women are going to use the safe havens if they know the cops are going to inform the men that they’re afraid of? Do you WANT to find babies in dumpsters? > [@](#): > > I assure you men can get it up and perform while rip roaring drunk. Maybe not all men can nor is it as well as sober but most can. Sure they can, but only if they want to. This is another case of bending over backwards to devise some laughably unlikely way for a man to be a victim. Some drunken pig gets a woman pregnant? Fuck him. I have no sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/274 "2004-12-15T18:37:14Z")
> [@Mynn](#): > > All I have are anecdotes - mother repeatedly reported to CPS for abuse and neglect and drug use. I should have expanded on my thought more. I meant to ask if both parents wanted the child and both are able to support it. But it doesn’t matter anymore consider my statement withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/275 "2004-12-15T18:39:47Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > As far as I learned from Bioethics/Health Law + Family Law last year > > Couples can’t go after anonymous sperm donors for child support. > > But if you willingly make a contract with a known party to use his sperm to create a child, you can’t contract out of child support. Actually, most of the cases I could cite to for the statement I made above are based on these types of situations. > > The only reason I learned for that split is that the law on bioethics issues encourages “life,” so to speak, so you don’t want to punish people who could provide infertile couples from having a child by making them liable for child support. However, if the two of you know each other, the courts seem to be saying tough luck. > > Egg Donors: > I don’t remember reading anything about going after an egg donor for child support-most of the time the problem there is that the egg donor wants a say in the child’s life. > > It’s actually quite a fascinating subject. I have an environmental law final that I need to finish but I could hunt up my cases from last year for citations if they’re called for. > > Anu and from a case her in florida - if it’s done “contractually” but “the usual way” - sex with the donor rather than the turkey baster route, the ‘donor’ is on the hook for support. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/276 "2004-12-15T18:44:23Z")
> [@](#): > > **Diogenes** said: > Sure they can, but only if they want to. Not quite. If they’re semi-conscious or just so drunk they don’t even know who you are, it’s possible to cause an erection just by rubbing the penis. You need to get your facts straight before you act like a self-righteous prick telling men that an erection is a sign of ‘wanting it’. Women can orgasm while being raped, they get ‘wet’ too. Doesn’t fucking mean they wanted it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/277 "2004-12-15T18:44:23Z")
> [@Mynn](#): > > All I have are anecdotes - mother repeatedly reported to CPS for abuse and neglect and drug use. I used to have a rommmate who’s girlfriend had a three year old sole living in sole custody of the (physically abusive) father against her wishes. I briefly jammed in a band with a dude who had sole custody of his two-year old daughter but i don’t know the circumstances of that case. Fathers get sole custody, even bad fathers… It happens. ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/278 "2004-12-15T18:46:27Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > There has to be a better system than the one that exists now. Let’s see, there is a system that [ul][li]allows women and children to not starve completely when some dick makes a baby and takes off[/li] [li]lets women choose to kill off an unwanted baby (provided it’s done within the legal ficta of acceptable time frame)[/li] [li]where the child can be raised by someone else if neither parent can care for the child.[/li] [li]All limitations of bearing said results of sperm-meets-egg are purely biological, and will not in the forseeable future be acceptably and safely changed.[/li] [li]Therefore, don’t stick a dick or get stuck with one if you aren’t ready to deal with it for the next minimum 18ish years.[/ul][/li] Looks as if it’s working in the best way it can for now. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/279 "2004-12-15T18:47:22Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Well, the Pennsylvania Save Haven site says that the **mother** can drop the kid off at a hospital. This [list of state safe haven laws](http://library.adoption.com/information/Baby-Abandonment/746/1.html) says that the parent is authorized in Pa. I clicked on some but not all states at random-- most authorized the parent; Georgia does authorize only the mother. > [@treis](#): > > 1. Yes but if they do the mother at least knows about the child and can take action to find and recover it. A mother will know if her child is gone relatively quickly so she has a very good chance of getting it back. If she goes to a hospital and says I think my baby was dropped off here under the safe haven program in the last 2 days the hospital can easily find the baby. If a father goes to a hospital and says I think my baby was dropped off here under the safe haven program sometime in the last 5 years its doubtful they will find the child. Some [info on putative father laws](http://laws.adoption.com/statutes_at_a_glance_putative_fathers.php), state by state. Hey, I’m not saying it’s perfect, or even adequate, but it is being addressed, so it is incorrect to say that fathers have no say in the matter. If reform is needed anywhere, it should be in this area–make laws encouraging family ties, not laws enabling folks to run off on their kids. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/280 "2004-12-15T18:47:30Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Not quite. If they’re semi-conscious or just so drunk they don’t even know who you are, it’s possible to cause an erection just by rubbing the penis. > > You need to get your facts straight before you act like a self-righteous prick telling men that an erection is a sign of ‘wanting it’. > > Women can orgasm while being raped, they get ‘wet’ too. Doesn’t fucking mean they wanted it. Ree-ee-ee-eee-aaa-aaaa-aaaaa-ccccccc-cccccc-hhhhhh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=15)