# Hey hauss, suck it up, chickenshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802 "2004-12-14T16:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/301 "2004-12-15T22:35:01Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Oh, yeah, back to the pitting for a minute. I first noticed you, **hauss** , because of your strong stance against abortion. Pro-choicers often accuse pro-lifers of being concerned with the child only when it is in the womb, and feeling and doing nothing for it once it is born. > > This is the first time I’ve actually seen this hypocrisy in action. You didn’t want to kill your child, but to hell with it after birth. Oh wow. He really is an evil shit. I can’t believe someone would publically admit they’re anti-abortion and ambivalent about supporting their very own child once out of the womb. What a bastard! ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/302 "2004-12-15T22:37:55Z")
Only one more page to go, **wring!** ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/303 "2004-12-15T22:45:06Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] You mean the woman can’t drop the baby off at a Safe Haven, or put it up for adoption, or get an abortion? Or is it that her life is less sweet if she doesn’t pursue any of these perfectly legal options? The guy who takes off can get his wages garnished or tossed in jail, the woman who does any of the above is off scott free. [quote] She’s not “off scott free,” she will have _taken responsibility_. She inst’t “taking off,” she’s dealing with it. > [@](#): > > Not that people are really out there “tricking” their sexual partners, but women have far more choices than men once the deed is done. No man has to become a parent unless he wants to. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/304 "2004-12-15T22:49:29Z")
I really would like to echo **Yosemite’s** question about what the _motive_ would be for a woman to somehow get a man to impregnate her through some sort of subterfuge, then to run away and not tell him she’s pregnant, then to drop the baby off at a safe haven after it’s born. Hah hah, He had a kid and never knew it. She sure got him, poor bastard. Really, people, think about how fucking stupid your hypotheticals are. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/305 "2004-12-15T22:52:53Z")
Names have been changed and emphasis added to protect the relevance. > [@Mtgman](#): > > Do we, as a society under the rule of law, wish to seperate the act of sex from its potential biological consequences? Right now the laws have been written in a way that does NOT make this seperation. There is no official “opt out”. **For BOTH parties the decision to have sex is the same as the decision to accept the consequences of pregnancy, should it occur**. This is the position of the law. > > Now, **catsix** , and some others have argued that legal, safe, elective abortions have put an unofficial “opt out” into the process for the woman. The point they’re missing is that abortions were NOT made legal so women could “opt out” of the consequenses of sex. Abortions were made legal so a woman could retain her autonomy. Her right to be sovreign in her own body. This sovreignty can ONLY be challenged if exercise thereof would cause harm to another being. The courts have decided that protection of law does not extend to the unborn, so a woman has a choice, thanks to her biology giving her control over the biological process of pregnancy in the post-sex, pre-birth timeframe. This choice does NOT exist to give the woman an “opt out” of parenthood. This is a side effect of the greater goal of giving the woman sovreignty over her body. > > So now people are claiming that there is an imbalance. Women have an “opt out”, an implicit one, under the law and men have no such thing. A decision needs to be made. Are we, as a society under the rule of law, going to divorce sex from its biological consequenses of parenthood? If so, then both parties need an explicit “opt out”. If not, then something needs to be done to educate the population to understand that **a woman’s ability to get a legal elective abortion is not a legally constructed “opt out”. It is a side effect of a right she has always posessed, that of making her own decisions on her own medical care, combined with the nature of human reproduction having the woman as the carrier of the child.** Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/306 "2004-12-15T23:02:20Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I really would like to echo **Yosemite’s** question about what the _motive_ would be for a woman to somehow get a man to impregnate her through some sort of subterfuge, then to run away and not tell him she’s pregnant, then to drop the baby off at a safe haven after it’s born. Hah hah, He had a kid and never knew it. She sure got him, poor bastard. > > Really, people, think about how fucking stupid your hypotheticals are. Who put forth THAT one? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/307 "2004-12-15T23:09:53Z")
Diogenes- You never really answered why a man doesn’t deserve to know he has a child nor why we shouldn’t make an attempt to inform him. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/308 "2004-12-15T23:17:20Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Who put forth THAT one? That was the whole original point. We were saying that if some of you got what you wanted, men would have _no_ incentive to be responsible—even going so far as to lie about being sterile in order to not have to use birth control (why should he worry? He’s going to be off the hook either way). To which you replied that women could lie about being sterile too, just to collect a check. (To which I replied, “Sure. What a great deal. The happy-go-lucky life of a single mom.”) And then someone else (I’ve forgotten who) said that women could drop their baby off at safe harbor or give it up for adoption (or abort it) if they wanted. So you put these all together, (lie about being sterile and still avoiding responsibility) and it just doesn’t add up on the women’s side. What motivation would she have in lying about being sterile if she doesn’t want the kid? Why risk pregnancy? A man would have _zero_ incentive to not lie about his fertility, whereas a woman still would, since she’d still be the one facing pregnancy or abortion. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/309 "2004-12-15T23:20:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Diogenes- > > You never really answered why a man doesn’t deserve to know he has a child nor why we shouldn’t make an attempt to inform him. I think that “we” (meaning the government) do make an attempt. I think sugaree has already given you sites about that. Perhaps things could be better, but I don’t think that the government doesn’t give a shit about men’s rights to be informed. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/310 "2004-12-15T23:29:01Z")
Unless I am mistaken his cites are for when a child goes up for adoption. I don’t think there are laws requiring the father to be informed. I might be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/311 "2004-12-15T23:30:25Z")
ugh I need to finish typing my thought: I don’t think there are laws requiring the father to be informed of the birth of his child. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/312 "2004-12-15T23:31:40Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Unless I am mistaken his cites are for when a child goes up for adoption. I don’t think there are laws requiring the father to be informed. I might be mistaken. If men don’t _have_ to be informed, why are men who have _not_ been informed been able to sue the adoptive parents and get their kid back? If there is some law that says that the man doesn’t have to be informed, I trust you can find a cite that indicates that. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/313 "2004-12-15T23:37:18Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > If men don’t _have_ to be informed, why are men who have _not_ been informed been able to sue the adoptive parents and get their kid back? I don’t see a contradiction to between the two statements. > [@yosemite](#): > > If there is some law that says that the man doesn’t have to be informed, I trust you can find a cite that indicates that. I am not saying there is such a law. I am saying that there should be a law that the state should make a reasonable attempt to find the father of the child. If there is no law saying a father must be informed than he doesn’t have to be. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/314 "2004-12-15T23:43:18Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Hey, remember three pages ago when this thread was about child support, before it turned into the **treis-catsix-Diogenes** nutjob circle-jerk? That was nice. I think I warned about that way back then. > [@yosemite](#): > > Only one more page to go, wring! e-yup! 😃 :: foggy smoke swirling around :: I see, I see, people calling on the phone, asking questions, paying money to get answers, yes, I see a psychic hotline! :: cut foggy smoke:: ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/315 "2004-12-15T23:43:43Z")
Here, I’ve found you a random cite on [parental consent to adoption.](http://laws.adoption.com/california_consent_laws.php) It doesn’t look like (at least in the state of California) someone can adopt a guy’s kid out from under him—if the guy is actually around and gives a shit. Feel free to find some cite that indicates that men don’t have to be informed. I won’t say that such a cite does not exist. If it does, I think it should be changed. I think that guys (who **give a shit** ) should have to give consent before their kids can be adopted. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/316 "2004-12-15T23:45:37Z")
yosemite- Ah I see. I am not talking about adoption. I am talking about a case where the mother keeps the child. In this case I think there should be a law that the father has to be informed. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/317 "2004-12-15T23:49:19Z")
> [@treis](#): > > In this case I think there should be a law that the father has to be informed. It’s often easy for him to know if he’s a daddy. Simply keep track of the women he screws. If she starts getting a big belly, that’s a tip-off. If he doesn’t give a shit about her and goes on his merry way, it’s really his own damned fault if he’s unaware that she’s in the family way. No, it’s not a perfect plan, because she can move to the Bahamas right after she discovers she’s pregnant. But _most_ of the time, this time-honored system works quite well. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/318 "2004-12-15T23:51:01Z")
> [@wring](#): > > I think I warned about that way back then. You sure did. Tell me, oh wise one, do you see a _ninth_ page in our future? Or will it top out at page eight? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/319 "2004-12-15T23:52:33Z")
> [@](#): > > **wring** said: > I think I warned about that way back then. You certainly bitched about me. Course, nothing on **Diogenes** and his inane rantings that men can’t possibly be raped by women. Funny, that. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802/320 "2004-12-15T23:55:19Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > You sure did. > > Tell me, oh wise one, do you see a _ninth_ page in our future? Or will it top out at page eight? 😉 Hey, **wring** said we’d get eight pages with just **catsix** ’s loony-ass ramblings. Add in **treis** and **Diogenes** competing for to see who can have the stupidest hypothetical situation, and the sky’s the limit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-hauss-suck-it-up-chickenshit/279802.md?page=17)