# Hey...how do the pro-democrats on the SDMB feel about this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504 "2003-06-13T04:04:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nimsay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@Nimsay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nimsay)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/1 "2003-06-13T04:04:17Z")
On the week days, I regularly listen to Neal Boortz. I rarely visit the web-site though. Anyhow, while surfing his web-site, I came across this: [http://www.boortz.com/demsecrets.htm](http://www.boortz.com/demsecrets.htm). I found it very funny, and somewhat true. Here is just a sample of what the article says, \*\*“The Democrats have begun their campaign to frighten voters before the fall elections. It’s nothing but a replay of past elections, the only difference being that they seem to be starting the scare tactics a bit early this year. I guess you can’t blame them. Nothing else has worked. The tried to hand the Florida election problems on Bush. No go. Then it was the economy, and that didn’t work either. They gave a stab at the “Bush is stupid” routine, but Americans aren’t buying it. Enron looked worse for Clinton than it did for Republicans, so the Social Democrats had to give up on that one too. So, it’s time to go back to Democratic roots. Try to scare the beejezus out of older voters. It’s worked in the past – so it will surely work this time.” \*\* Come now, what do ya’ think of that? And, what do you think of Mr. Boortz? ---
**Author:** ![Nimsay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@Nimsay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nimsay)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/2 "2003-06-13T04:06:32Z")
Here is just a correction for the site : [http://www.boortz.com/demsecrets.htm](http://www.boortz.com/demsecrets.htm) ---
**Author:** ![MikeRochenelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/49beb7/32.png) [@MikeRochenelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeRochenelle)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/3 "2003-06-13T04:22:59Z")
_The tried to hand the Florida election problems on Bush. No go._ Wrong Bush. It was Jeb Bush’s dirty tactics that swung that one. Go do your homework about how tons of eligible voters were turned away at black (predominantly democratic) precincts. Of course, the Demos tried that amazingly treasonous “we’re invalidating all mail-in (predominantly military, thus republican) votes.” Frankly there are a lot of politicans out there I’d like to introduce to a bullet… _Then it was the economy, and that didn’t work either._ I don’t blame him entirely for that. Bad timing. 9/11, dot-com crash, etc. - They gave a stab at the “Bush is stupid” routine, but Americans aren’t buying it.\* Who’s not buying it? The guy is not smart enough to be president. It’s become obvious that Cheney is running things behind the scenes. As for Boortz, he’s quite often a gasbag. What do you expect. Guy makes his money from being a pundit/provacateur. And he’s certanly unabashed about wanting to make money. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/4 "2003-06-13T04:25:52Z")
What’s your point? If your point is that nothing seems to stick to Bush, then you’re right. The reason is obvious, too- Bush made a deal with the devil. That’s why he rubber-stamped the executions of everybody on Texas’ death row, except for the worst serial killer in American history, who raped, killed, raped, and ate his own mother (among other people) in that order, while forcing his niece and nephew both to watch and to help. Now, Bush fails at everything he puts his hands to, and comes out better every time. I mean, think of all the businesses that have tanked under Bush’s control. Somehow, he always seems to make money out of the failures. Do _you_ have a better explanation? If your point is that the Florida election wasn’t rigged (which, BTW, it clearly [was](http://www.gregpalast.com/columns.cfm?subject_id=1&subject_name=Theft%20of%20Presidency),) or that the problems with the economy aren’t Bush’s fault, then that’s another bunch of questions, each of which deserves its own thread. Are the Democrats trying to scare older voters? I haven’t noticed, but maybe they are. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/5 "2003-06-13T04:30:55Z")
If the democrats wanted to get serious, they’d get serious. They’d run a television advert that shows pictures of blown up Iraqi children; caption says “If Gore had been elected, this child wouldn’t be in 14 pieces.” The problem is, democrats are just republicans who only have one vacation home. Both parties suck. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/6 "2003-06-13T04:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Seven \* > \*\* > > The problem is, democrats are just republicans who only have one vacation home. Both parties suck. \*\* Good one - the 2 party system sucks ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/7 "2003-06-13T04:40:51Z")
How are the Dems scaring the bejesus out of old people? From what was posted from the site it hardly looks like reputable political commentary. So to me this looks like an early smear campain from the Pubbies. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/8 "2003-06-13T04:41:31Z")
All these “secrets” and no cites?? He wouldn’t last long on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/9 "2003-06-13T04:49:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nimsay \* > \*\*And, what do you think of Mr. Boortz? \*\* I think Mr. Boortz’s slant and bias are fairly dripping from my computer screen. I read his article. With some of his points, my reply was “Good!” Such as this one: > [@](#): > > As Democrats work diligently for more control over our economy and increase levels of income redistribution many high-achieving Americans are making plans to run. The greater the confiscation of wealth becomes the more people start looking for other countries in which to base their businesses. Democrats have a “secret plan” to impose confiscatory taxes on any Americans who try to move their wealth or their business interests out of this country. I say tax the hell out of any company who moves the factory to a Third-World to take advantage of tax breaks and slave-labor wages. Tax them to the point where it’s not profitable any more to take jobs out of this country. > [@](#): > > The “secret” plan? Continue to work against any ideas that would make it easier for parents to remove their children from government schools. This means working against such ideas as vouchers or tax credits to help parents afford the cost of private schools. They will also work to add increased regulations to parents who make the decision to home school their children. Again, good! I sincerly hope that one of those new restrictions is that the school be accredited. I went to one of those private schools the vouchers would pay for. It was nothing more than religious indoctrination with a tiny bit of academics thrown in. My diploma will not allow me to enter a university. According to my state, I have been a drop-out since eighth grade, though I have a “diploma” to prove I graduated from this so-called school. Do I sound bitter? I am. I sincerely hope no kid has to deal with that embarassment. Unfortunately, many of these schools aren’t worthy of the name. (Though not all-- my husband graduated from an excellent Catholic school.) Nor will all home-school parents educate their children properly. > [@](#): > > The absolute last thing a Democrat would ever do would be to suggest to anyone that they shouldn’t have a baby they can’t afford to raise. Actually, I think that’s why they support abortion rights. > [@](#): > > Democrats know that children are the absolute more [sic] important thing in the lives of millions of Americans. And that’s a bad thing because \* why? \* Is he suggesting that Good Conservatives know it’s best to value your job or possesions over your children? > [@](#): > > They have been working for decades to impose ever more expensive rules and regulations on private child care agencies. Again, good! Child care providers \*should \* be strictly regulated. > [@](#): > > Democrats are the party of big government. Not any more. The new Department of Homeland Security comes to mind. > [@](#): > > Since Democrats love the “fair” word so much, they’ll try to resurrect something called the “Fairness Doctrine.” How would this law work? Well, for example, a talk show host would not be allowed to voice opposition to a particular Democrat goal without finding some Democrat to go on the air to defend that goal. Yeah, God forbid anyone should be able to defend himself against slander. Balanced debate? {shudder} How horrible!! > [@](#): > > The Democrats “secret” plan is to begin with a law requiring payment of about one-half of the employee’s salary. For people who live paycheck to paycheck, taking time off to be with a sick husband or child, or to be able to breastfeed a baby through the first few weeks is impossible. They simply can’t go without the money. Should they go on welfare? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/10 "2003-06-13T04:52:07Z")
Boortz reminds me of a male version of Ann Coulter (debating style, not physical resemblance). Makes you embarassed that you somtimes agree with him. His main purpose seems to 'stir things up" rather than actually address problems and try to solve them. But I think he is a self described “libertarian”, not a Republican. I’ve only seen him a few times, one of which was when he walked off the Donohue show (MSNBC a few months ago when that show still existed). But he does seem to fire at the Dems and not at the Pubs, so I don’t know what he actually is. I would never tell a person not to listen to someone else, but if he’s your main source of news, you might consider branching out. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/11 "2003-06-13T05:18:32Z")
> [@](#): > > "The Democrats have begun their campaign to frighten voters before the fall elections. Attempting to scare voters? Dear Lord, no! Only Democrats would do that. Oh, hang on a second, we just went to orange alert again… > [@](#): > > Nothing else has worked. It’s early, but this “oops, we can’t find the weapons and maybe our Iraq intelligence was bad” thing ain’t going too well for Bush. And he’s far from invulnerable. > [@](#): > > They tried to hand the Florida election problems on Bush. No go. Yeah, everyone accepted his election as TOTALLY legit. 😛 The man cheated, and got off the hook because 1) Democrats didn’t pursue it, and (more importantly 2) September 11. He wasn’t really accepted as a leader until then. > [@](#): > > Then it was the economy, and that didn’t work either. Yeah, the economy is just _fabulous_. Yeah, that’s not all his fault, but he hasn’t done anything to fix it. And the public sure doesn’t like the tax cuts for the wealthy as the deficit balloons. This is probably Bush’s weakest issue - he’s just as weak on the environment, but I think that inspires less passion overall. > [@](#): > > They gave a stab at the “Bush is stupid” routine, but Americans aren’t buying it. People thought Bush was stupid before he was elected, and it had nothing to do with the Democrats. It was due to his amazing talent for malapropism and apparently weak grasp of the words and concepts of his native language. > [@](#): > > Enron looked worse for Clinton than it did for Republicans, so the Social Democrats had to give up on that one too. This was a scandal that hit both sides of the aisle, for sure. But Ken Lay wasn’t Clinton’s best friend, and Clinton didn’t appoint an Enron employee Secretary of the Army and let the company play a huge role in his energy policy. > [@](#): > > So, it’s time to go back to Democratic roots. Try to scare the beejezus out of older voters. It’s worked in the past – so it will surely work this time." I think if you’re elderly and a non-millionaire, you’ve got something to worry about here. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/12 "2003-06-13T05:47:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > **Boortz reminds me of a male version of Ann Coulter (debating style, not physical resemblance).** Funny you should mention that. As far as physical resemblance goes, Ann Coulter reminds me of a male version of herself. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/13 "2003-06-13T17:23:09Z")
Boy, is that Boortz site a riot! I am not a Republican but have always been pretty conservative politically. But in reading that rant I think it’s the Democrats who have their heads on straight. Maybe that’s a secret pro-Democrat site. The arguments that Boortz makes are so transparent and specious that they serve to point out the reasonable nature of the Democrat agenda. Excuse me for a moment: I have to re-read P. J. O’Rourke’s _Parliament of Whores_ to feel normal again… ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/14 "2003-06-13T20:38:03Z")
Remind me of this again when Ted Kennedy declares an Orange Alert for the Fourth of July long weekend. When that happens I accept that the Democrats are trying to scare the public. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/15 "2003-06-13T22:01:03Z")
I didn’t think Democrat-bashing was a Great Debate. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/16 "2003-06-13T22:52:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMensch \* > Excuse me for a moment: I have to re-read P. J. O’Rourke’s _Parliament of Whores_ to feel normal again… We **do** need more of P.J., don’t we? Do the Dems have a P.J. equivalent? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/17 "2003-06-13T23:17:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > \*\* Bush made a deal with the devil. That’s why he rubber-stamped the executions of everybody on Texas’ death row, except for the worst serial killer in American history, who raped, killed, raped, and ate his own mother (among other people) in that order, while forcing his niece and nephew both to watch and to help. \*\* Well, you’ve gotta admire someone who makes the effort to get the young folks involved. But seriously, which killer are you referring to here? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/18 "2003-06-14T03:07:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > > Do the Dems have a P.J. equivalent? Al Franken is one; Molly Ivins is another. Below, I add a little commentary to a few of the deceptions by Boortz, who really is such a complete and utter crackpot idiot that I can’t believe the OP actually linked to this tripe. It may be a new low here on the SDMB. It is also ironic that he is accusing the Dems of fear-mongering when his whole thing is basically a fear-mongering diatribe about what the Dems are going to do. > [@](#): > > Using “refundable” tax credits and deductions and such ideas as the fraudulent Earned Income Tax Credit the Democrats are working to shift the entire burden for the payment of federal income taxes onto a minority of US taxpayers. Right now the top 50 percent of taxpayers pay almost 96 percent of the taxes. The Democrats are close to their goal. This 96% number sounds somewhat less dramatic once one notes that these top 50% have an 87% share of the income (see [here](http://www.taxfoundation.org/prtopincometable.html)). It is also worth noting that the federal income tax is the most progressive tax we have (outside of the soon-to-be eliminated estate and gift tax, which is a smaller player at any rate) and that things change once you add other federal taxes (such as the payroll taxes into the mix) and even more once you add in state and local taxes which are generally regressive (see [here](http://www.ctj.org/html/whopays.htm)). > [@](#): > > So, there you go. Shifting the burden for the cost of Social Security and Medicare for low income earners onto high income earners. The Democratic way. Well, maybe they should do this! One of the interesting thing to come out of the Social Security privatization debate is a claim **by libertarian and conservative organizations** that the social security system as a whole is regressive (see [here](http://www.ncpa.org/pi/congress/pd051100e.html))! Now, this is somewhat a matter of assumptions since the system involves intergenerational transfer and the results you get depend on how you “discount” the money over time or whatever. > [@](#): > > End the home mortgage interest deduction > > Democrats have been after this income tax deduction for decades. They call it a “subsidy.” Now the more intelligent among us will clearly understand that allowing someone to keep more of the money that they earn can hardly be called a “subsidy.” But we’re talking about the more intelligent among us. Well, the most intelligent among us understand that if you allow some people to pay less tax than other people then this is in effect a subsidy for these folks…or at least for the particular thing, in this case, home ownership. Having said this, I seriously doubt that the Dems will eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. See next point. > [@](#): > > So, there you go. Shifting the burden for the cost of Social Security and Medicare for low income earners onto high income earners. The Democratic way. > … > The extra money will be used to keep the Democratic middle and low-income constituency happy. > … > Democrats have already succeeded in removing most of their core constituency from the income tax rolls — so what is there to lose? > … > Is this a dangerous plan for Democrats? Not really. The plan would take money chiefly from those who earn enough money to actually pay income taxes and contribute to pension plans. These people do not make up the core of Democratic voters. One problem with Boortz is he seems to believe that the poor have some incredible power over the Democratic Party. That is just completely and utterly idiotic. For one thing, the poor are probably a constituency that the Dems can pretty much take for granted…and it seems that they have been doing so. (It is true that they have to appeal to the middle class but I already noted that Boortz used deceptive statistics to make it look like the whole bottom 50% is paying very little in taxes which is very far from the truth.) For another, the poor don’t vote in very great numbers. For still another, the **poor don’t make big fat campaign contributions**! I mean, how stupid is this guy?!? A more realistic view is that we have two political parties in this country: the party that is mainly for the rich and the party that is 100% completely and utterly for the rich. > [@](#): > > As Democrats work diligently for more control over our economy and increase levels of income redistribution many high-achieving Americans are making plans to run. The greater the confiscation of wealth becomes the more people start looking for other countries in which to base their businesses. Well, where is the evidence that there is any increasing level of “income redistribution”, especially at the top. Of course, with Bush, we are going towards a flatter income tax distribution with particularly large cuts at the top. But even in the absence of that, the fact is that the only reason the share of taxes paid by the top 1% has increased dramatically in the 1980-2000 time frame (it went up by a factor of almost 2) is that their share of the income has gone up by almost a factor of 2.5. In other words, the rich are paying a greater share of the taxes because they are getting a greater share of the income, not because they are being taxed more heavily! And, the top 1% has done fabulously in the time period from ~1980 to 1997 with their after-tax **real** (i.e., inflation-adjusted) income increasing by \>150% (i.e., a factor of 2.5). By comparison, the after-tax income of those in the middle quintile only went up by about 10% in real terms (see [here](http://www.cbpp.org/4-16-02tax.htm)). ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/19 "2003-06-14T03:57:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jshore \* > \*\*A more realistic view is that we have two political parties in this country: the party that is mainly for the rich and the party that is 100% completely and utterly for the rich. > > \*\* Montgomery County Maryland is one of the wealthiest counties in the country - Bethesda and Chevy Chase is way liberal Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504/20 "2003-06-14T03:57:19Z")
Oh yeah…Another question about this idea of rich people running elsewhere to base their businesses: Where are they going to go exactly? Certainly, most of our fellow first world nations have more progressive taxation and a less inequitable distribution of wealth than we do. While it is true that some of the less wealthy nations might be attractive, this is probably true more for their low wage rates than their low taxation of the wealthy. Does Boortz really believe we should be competing with poor nations to offer the most generously low taxation of the rich? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-how-do-the-pro-democrats-on-the-sdmb-feel-about-this/181504.md?page=2)