# Hey, Islamo-fascist freaks - STEP IN HERE **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2004, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293 "2004-09-21T08:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/141 "2004-09-22T17:37:43Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Arabs in Sudan are speakers of Arabic. The word implies absolutely nothing about the color of your skin. This isn’t a conflict based on race as determined by skin color - it is a conflict that originated in an economic struggle between agriculturalists ( mostly non-Arab in Darfur ) and pastoralists ( mostly Arab ) in an area hard hit by drought. It has since taken on a tinge of Arab supremacism vis-a-vis non-Arabs ( hence government favoritism towards the janjaweed, both in turning a blind eye to atrocities and apparently the occasional semi-covert aid ) but it is not a “race” issue in an American sense. I can understand your point of view since maybe all dark skinned people look the same to you. For example, in America if your brown then your black. But it appears that in the Sudan it is important that either you identify as an Arab or as a black since admixture is prevalent throughout the Sudan. From the [Danforth Report 2002](http://wwwc.house.gov/international_relations/107/deng0605.htm) > [@](#): > > The Sudanese Arabs, who are visibly black, must prove beyond doubt that they are indeed Arab. And the related adherence to Islam must also be highlighted to reinforce that composite identity. Southerners on their part have tended to exaggerate their “pure” African, even negroid identity, in denial of any admixture. > [@](#): > > It certainly has nothing to do with religion, as both sides are overwhelmingly Muslim of the same persuasion. But in Darfur it does. While the Arabs enslave the blacks of the south, they can’t enslave the blacks of the east who are muslim, hence the permissable genocide. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/142 "2004-09-22T17:39:54Z")
> [@Stinkpalm](#): > > The majority of Muslims fucking suck. You, sir, may very well be the single most ignorant person I have ever encountered, and I include people I’ve seen on Jerry Springer. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/143 "2004-09-22T17:41:50Z")
Ok, this is getting really bizarre. **Gum** , we’re all experiencing some sort of communication breakdown. Let’s take a step back for a minute and reform our arguments. > [@gum](#): > > Talking as a cunt: I don’t see a difference in slaughtering American hostages, blacks, _or_ women. Nor do I. > [@](#): > > You guys want some nice pics of women beaten to death by their islamic husbands? Will that get you all horny again? No thanks. Were is this assumption that we think women are dogs coming from? > [@](#): > > [don’t give me crap about other religions. I’m an atheïst, religion stinks from all sides, though I haven’t heard of Catholics beheading someone lately] Well, they’re quite capable of killing in their own creative ways. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/144 "2004-09-22T17:53:54Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Were is this assumption that we think women are dogs coming from? Let me take a crack at this. I think that because **Gum** is a woman that she is more sensitive to the plight of millions of Islamic women who are suffering indignities that most of us just gloss over as irrelevant. Like they are just dogs after all. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/145 "2004-09-22T18:05:07Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Let me take a crack at this. I think that because **Gum** is a woman that she is more sensitive to the plight of millions of Islamic women who are suffering indignities that most of us just gloss over as irrelevant. Like they are just dogs after all. Ah gotcha. Ironically I’m reading about the Ottoman Turks right now. Seemed pretty openminded. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/146 "2004-09-22T18:23:57Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Sorry, meant to include [this link](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200409/cullison) . Thanks for the link. Can you post one or two fo the emails or a paragraph or 2 of the manifestos which prove your point. I can’t seem to get to that article. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/147 "2004-09-22T18:28:43Z")
Thank you, **grienspace**. That’s more or less what I’m on about. Though ‘indignities’ is a very friendly word. I’ll try to explain one more time, for the dense among us. The **OP** = ‘Hey, Islamo-facist freaks - STEP IN HERE’ Get that? Have you read that? It’s about _Islamo-facist freaks_ Whatever that is, but it is clearly about islam and it’s cruelty. _Blacks_ are the vicitms, as are women, hostages and little Russian children. \*No matter \* if they slaughter amongst their own lovely selfs. You think my comment is beneath contempt **jjimm**? Try telling that to Ayaan Hirshi Ali. She - as a member of our government - gets contempt on a daily basis by muslims who are insulted and who’s [yes, here’s that word again] \*honor \* is stained. I don’t care about your contempt, **jjimm**. I care about a lady without a clitoris, who’s on the run for murderous muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/148 "2004-09-22T18:54:02Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > I can understand your point of view since maybe all dark skinned people look the same to you. I started to get a little snippy here, until I reread and saw the “maybe” there. Suffice it to say that, no, dark-skinned people don’t all look the same to me. Thakfully I’ve never had to fall back on gender to distinguish my step-father from my sister-in-law. > [@](#): > > But it appears that in the Sudan it is important that either you identify as an Arab or as a black since admixture is prevalent throughout the Sudan. It is important that you identify as either an “Arab” or an “African”, but skin color per se is not the issue here. As your cite notes, many Sudanese Arabs are “visibly black”. Or to get back to the original reason I interjected myself - Muslims are not killing other Muslims because they are black. Arab Muslims are killing “African” Muslims ( but the Arabs are just as “African” ) because they are in compeitition over scarce resources and secondarily because they are not Arabs - a linguistic distinction ( and latterly cultural, though in point of fact groups like the rural Baggara and Fur, who have intermarried for centuries, probably have more in common culturally than they do with any of the urban dwellers in Khartoum ) rather than one based on physiognomy and one that has nothing to do with Islam, the Arab’s position as a uniquely chosen people in Islam being an idea that was firmly dismissed back in the 8th century. > [@](#): > > But in Darfur it does. While the Arabs enslave the blacks of the south, they can’t enslave the blacks of the east who are muslim, hence the permissable genocide. Eh? I don’t quite get your point. Darfur is in the west and the population is Muslim. Technically you aren’t supposed to enslave Muslims, but that is because technically you aren’t supposed to war on Muslims - the Baggara in particular have violated both those tenets even before the state gave some half-assed official sanction to it in 2003. The Darfur struggle, again, _has nothing to do with religion_ - it is a cultural/tribal/economic struggle between two groups that share an _identical_ religion. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/149 "2004-09-22T18:56:26Z")
> [@gum](#): > > I’ll try to explain one more time, for the dense among us. Now hold the hell up for a second. I’m trying to be nice and understand where you’re coming from, but now your starting to fucking piss me off. > [@](#): > > You think my comment is beneath contempt **jjimm**? Try telling that to Ayaan Hirshi Ali. She - as a member of our government - gets contempt on a daily basis by muslims who are insulted and who’s [yes, here’s that word again] \*honor \* is stained. I don’t care about your contempt, **jjimm**. I care about a lady without a clitoris, who’s on the run for murderous muslims. Fuck it, you obviously have some serious rage at **Jjimm** , I’ll let him sort it out. ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/150 "2004-09-22T19:07:37Z")
> [@gum](#): > > The **OP** = ‘Hey, Islamo-facist freaks - STEP IN HERE’ > Get that? Have you read that? It’s about _Islamo-facist freaks_ Whatever that is, but it is clearly about islam and it’s cruelty. I think we all share the same reaction to the actions that prompted this OP. Some of us feel, however, that bringing the over broad categorisation of Islamic into the title of the OP was contemptible. Let me reitterate, we are all capable of heinous crimes. The biggest fuckheads of all time were the Catholic instigators of genocide. We did not, nor should we used the brush of Catholicism to describe the Nazis though, because it would incite hatred of a group that is incidental to the crime. In the same way Islam is incidental to the crimes being perpetrated by the insurgents in Iraq. It was not necessary to the OP to use the word _Islamo_, any more than it would have been to add the desciptor _brown skinned_, though both would probably be true. It introduces a subliminal message that all Moslems are subhuman, even though that was not the OP’s intent. Keep repeating these messages of hate and you end up with **Stinkpalm** ’s assertion that “The majority of Muslims fucking suck”. It was Germans who held the same ignorant shithead viewpoint of Jews that allowed the holocaust to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/151 "2004-09-22T19:13:43Z")
I should hasten to note that you certainly can find racism of the skin color variety among Arabs. Including, I’m sure, some or many Sudanese Arabs. However this is not exactly what is going on in Darfur, where the main groups are distinguished more by dress, language, and economy, rather than physical appearance. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Head\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/34f0e0/32.png) [@Richard\_Head\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Head_1)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/152 "2004-09-22T19:29:45Z")
I say bomb the hell out of them and let them sort out their own mess. We need toi find an alternative fuel source and say fuck the arabs and their oil. They are nothing but animals anyway. Any of them that truly want to live in a free society can immigrate here as far as that goes. Fuck nation building. We should blow them to shit and take their oil. The OP truly rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/153 "2004-09-22T19:38:24Z")
Sure, there are some bad people who are Muslim. There are also bad Catholics, bad Jews, bad etc, etc, etc. Beheading those captives was a horrible thing. But let’s not forget that there are other militant groups around the world (including a good number of Americans) who have done things just as bad, if not worse. You _can’t_ lump a whole culture into the same group just because a few bad people from that culture have done terrible things. And you especially shouldn’t start spouting things about how they worship a false god - How would you know?? Let’s keep in mind that there are many religions much older than Christianity or Judaism. It’s perfectly ok to be angry against the individuals who committed the crimes. But let’s not let it spread any wider than that. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/154 "2004-09-22T20:08:46Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Get that? Have you read that? It’s about Islamo-facist freaks Whatever that is, but it is clearly about islam and it’s cruelty. The OP clarified that it is NOT about all of Islam. It is about Islamists and their barbarism. I agree with this sentiment. Let me state - and fuck knows why I have to again, but you just don’t get it - I am bitterly opposed to all these barbaric practices. I am opposed to terrorism. I am opposed to the subordination of women. I am opposed to FGM. I am opposed to ‘honour killings’. I am opposed to the stoning of women. I am opposed to genocide. I acknowledge there are deep problems in parts of the Muslim world. But I am also opposed to the wholesale condemnation of Muslims - the comment that “The majority of Muslims fucking suck” is what I was objecting to, which is where you waded in to attack me in seriously vitriolic style. I perceive that you have such anti-Islamic feelings that you refuse to acknowledge barbarism in non-Islamic society. > [@gum](#): > > You think my comment is beneath contempt **jjimm**? Try telling that to Ayaan Hirshi Ali. She - as a member of our government - gets contempt on a daily basis by muslims who are insulted and who’s [yes, here’s that word again] \*honor \* is stained. I don’t care about your contempt, **jjimm**. I care about a lady without a clitoris, who’s on the run for murderous muslims. Because I don’t share your rabid Islamophobia, you say that I gain sexual pleasure from the mutilation of women? That’s a _seriously_ unpleasant charge to level against me, **gum**. I don’t know what your problems is, but it makes me think that your grasp on reality is tenuous. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/155 "2004-09-22T20:18:37Z")
> [@](#): > > …though I haven’t heard of Catholics beheading someone lately. This is a source of great pride for us. In fact, we may use that in our next recruiting manual. “We may eat bodies and drink blood, but by God, we don’t behead people.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/156 "2004-09-22T20:33:25Z")
Here’s an article on ethnicity and struggle in Sudan: [http://www.ifaanet.org/The%20Inversion%20of%20Ethnicity.htm](http://www.ifaanet.org/The%20Inversion%20of%20Ethnicity.htm) You’ll note that the word _zurga_ ( ‘black’ ), while it surely originated as a racist epithet by Nile Arabs, has come to refer to a particular socioeconomic group ( non-Arab farmers ) in Darfur. So while a member of the Rezeigat might sling the word _zurga_ around as an equivalent to ‘nigger’, he would most likely be using it to refer with contempt to settled non-Arabs that were no darker than himself. And of course whatever racism, cultural or otherwise, is at work here pretty much has fuck-all to do with religion. A quick check shows that the Baggara and Fur ( and the people of Darfur generally ) are mostly members of even the same sect of Islam ( Ansar al-Sunna, a lineal descendant from the Mahdists ). Apparently a good deal of government favoritism may be due to greater economic investment by Khartoum interests in the cattle-producing nomads than the more self-sufficient farmers. Anyway enough of this thread. It’s souring my sunny disposition :). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/157 "2004-09-22T20:34:40Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > This is a source of great pride for us. In fact, we may use that in our next recruiting manual. “We may eat bodies and drink blood, but by God, we don’t behead people.” Not since the Inquisition, anyways. :eek: Sam 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/158 "2004-09-22T20:45:06Z")
Well, tell you what **jjimm** , I don’t _care_ what you might consider a ‘seriously unpleasant charge’. I don’t _care_ whether you might consider me an Islamophobe, homophobe or xenophobe, **jjimm** I _know_ I’m not. I do, however, care about the pooh pooh-ing away of the most horrendous atrocities, just because it’s in fashion [or rather: It _was_, but you guys haven’t figured that out yet] and to find muslims ‘cool’. As a cunt I might take exception to a whole lot of things. So you, as a dick, might as well get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/159 "2004-09-22T21:09:33Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Eh? I don’t quite get your point. Darfur is in the west and the population is Muslim. Sorry. I’m left handed and occassionally get my left mixed up with my right and my east with my west. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293/160 "2004-09-22T21:39:07Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Well, tell you what jjimm, I don’t care what you might consider a ‘seriously unpleasant charge’. Let me get this right. Your not caring means you think I _do_ derive sexual pleasure from the mutilation of women? If I were to libel you similarly, how would you react? > [@gum](#): > > I _know_ I’m not. I do, however, care about the pooh pooh-ing away of the most horrendous atrocities, just because it’s in fashion [or rather: It _was_, but you guys haven’t figured that out yet] and to find muslims ‘cool’. I swear you haven’t read a single thing I’ve written. I CONDEMN BARBARIC PRACTICES as listed in my previous post, and then some. As for your reasoning for my opposition to blanket Islamophobia, I am doing nothing because it’s ‘cool’. Where on earth did you get that from? If people were banging on about “the majority of” Buddhists or Hindus or Zoroastrians I would take the same stance. And I’m an atheist. I am saying what I’m saying because I can see a rising tide of prejudice that is implicating innocent people. **gum** I don’t know why you accuse me of such horrendous behaviour, nor why you misattribute my motives for my participation in this thread, but you are utterly wrong. You’re raging against shit that only exists in your mind. How about targeting your anger on the bastards who commit such atrocities, rather than innocent members of a very large and diverse community? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-islamo-fascist-freaks-step-in-here/265293.md?page=9)