# Hey Liberal, Cite Requests aren't Accusations of Lying **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2008, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495 "2008-02-06T07:48:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/1 "2008-02-06T07:48:09Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453785&page=2&pp=50) **Lib** gets all bent out of shape because I asked for a [cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9443349&postcount=79) on something he was blithely stating as fact. I think “martyr complex” just about covers it - apparently we (everyone else in that thread - it’s one vs. nine, don’tcha know) have called him everything from crybaby to liar. And we have grudges, oh yes, let’s not forget the grudges. :dubious: All I can say is, somewhere on Calvary there’s a hill missing a cross. Oh, and I’m still missing a cite. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/2 "2008-02-06T08:16:55Z")
I don’t really see how you can ask for a cite in the “intellectual” circle jerk that Philosophy is. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/3 "2008-02-06T08:32:47Z")
At best, you can track down a cite where a philosopher claimed something. Finding a cite where philosopher _proved_ something… now _that’s_ a worthy goal. By the way, this pitting is as useless as an unexamined life. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/4 "2008-02-06T08:39:47Z")
[QUOTE=treis] I don’t really see how you can ask for a cite in the “intellectual” circle jerk that Philosophy is. [/QUOTE] A quote from Sartre saying “Oh, and to wax metaphorical for a moment, _mes amis_, let me just say…” would do. Or even some other authority saying “And here we can easily see Sartre was extending the metaphor…”. Instead, I have two variants - Sartre’s own words, and **Lib** ’s interpretation thereof. One of these is pretty clear to me, very _un_metaphorical - and it isn’t **Lib**. So I wanted a cite that says it isn’t just _his_ interpretation, but rather a plain fact (like he seems to think we should take it - because he said so, don’tchaknow.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/5 "2008-02-06T08:43:14Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] By the way, this pitting is as useless as an unexamined life. [/QUOTE] 🙂 Call me Sisyphus! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/6 "2008-02-06T15:46:47Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] By the way, this pitting is as useless as an unexamined life. [/QUOTE] Cite? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/7 "2008-02-06T15:55:33Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] 🙂 Call me Sisyphus! [/QUOTE] You should see a doctor about that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/8 "2008-02-06T16:09:16Z")
That and my constant nausea! Existentialism humour - gotta love it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/9 "2008-02-06T16:52:10Z")
At least he hasn’t played the death card again. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/10 "2008-02-06T16:59:40Z")
I don’t see where Liberal even implied that a request for a cite was an accusation of lying in that thread. He said it was a sign of laziness, which it isn’t, but that’s a different issue. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/11 "2008-02-06T17:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] At least he hasn’t played the death card again. [/QUOTE] You can only do that once, can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/12 "2008-02-06T17:58:33Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] Cite? 😛 [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9446661&postcount=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9446661&postcount=5) ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/13 "2008-02-06T18:33:57Z")
My post is my cite!!! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/14 "2008-02-06T19:15:44Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] You can only do that once, can’t you? [/QUOTE] That would depend on whether or not he is existentially nothing more than a collection of electromagnetic waves and subatomic particles suspended in a field of gravity, who pre-exists his essence. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/15 "2008-02-06T20:24:16Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t see where Liberal even implied that a request for a cite was an accusation of lying in that thread. He said it was a sign of laziness, which it isn’t, but that’s a different issue. [/QUOTE] What do you call this (in direct response to my asking for a cite)? [QUOTE=Liberal] The page represents the views of an existentialist, chosen to counter **the implication that I’m making shit up to suit myself.** [/QUOTE] (my bolding) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/16 "2008-02-06T20:59:58Z")
Does “making shit up” = lying? It may sometimes, but not always. In this context, I don’t think it does. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/17 "2008-02-06T21:03:56Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] 🙂 Call me Sisyphus! [/QUOTE] And buy him a Rolling Rock… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/18 "2008-02-06T22:12:03Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Does “making shit up” = lying? It may sometimes, but not always. In this context, I don’t think it does. [/QUOTE] Oh, for Pete’s’s sake - of course it does. Especially when he later goes on with [QUOTE=Liberal] It does become onerous when you’re one against nine, and despite whatever care and attention you pay to answering each one first thing in the morning, **you’re dismissed as everything from a crybaby to a liar**. I think I may never get involved in another philosophical in Great Debates. I’m just too old for it. [/QUOTE] My bolding. In the context of the thread, who do you think he was talking about there? It’s just a means of avoiding the hard questions by making it personal. And breathing room to go look up a cite, I’m sure. But mostly it’s about the martyrdom. I mean, check it out: “I’m too old for this - I’m so beset by mean people” bullshit. Asking for a cite is hardly kicking his white cane out from under him. It’s standard debate, FFS. I mean, who the fuck is **Lib** that I should buy his say-so on Sartre’s train of thought? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/19 "2008-02-06T22:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Does “making shit up” = lying? It may sometimes, but not always. In this context, I don’t think it does. [/QUOTE] Of course making shit up equals lying! When has it ever not? Sometimes your oppositionality is truly inspired. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495/20 "2008-02-06T23:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] At best, you can track down a cite where a philosopher claimed something. Finding a cite where philosopher _proved_ something… now _that’s_ a worthy goal. [/QUOTE] [Cite!](http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/prior.1.i.html) More proof that you can shake a stick at! 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-liberal-cite-requests-arent-accusations-of-lying/436495.md?page=2)