# Hey "Main Street USA", want to compete with bigger businesses? Here's a tip: **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319 "2010-09-19T20:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/21 "2010-09-20T01:33:07Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > \ > > Not only are all the shops closed, but half of them don’t even have their hours posted, so who can guess when to return? Of the half that do have their hours posted, half of them (and I am not joking here), have “ish” amended onto all of their hours. As in “Monday Noonish to 5ish”. Two shops even had some smartass sign that said something like “Open as early as 7 or as late as 12 or 1, close around 5 but really whenever I feel like leaving. Lately I’ve been here at all times except when I’m somewhere else.” I realize this is probably funny to someone on the planet, but I found it annoying. \ That would annoy me, too. As a small business owner you can indeed keep whatever hours you want, but if you want customers, you do need to be open when people can come give you their money, and ideally, customers should have a good idea when you will reliably be open. The reality is that people generally work 8-5, Monday to Friday, making the money that you want them to give you, so keeping the same hours as your clientele just isn’t going to work. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/22 "2010-09-20T02:25:30Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Somewhat related, there’s a hole in the wall bakery that sells bread and cookies. That’s it. Mr. Sali adores their marble cookies. Not only are they NOT open half the time I journey to that part of town (no hours posted, BTW), but they don’t have any marble cookies when they are open. It’s always ‘come back on Wednesday’, or ‘we sold all of them to the church people’ or ‘the guy who makes the marble cookies was out sick this week’. ??? I’ve tried calling up to reserve a dozen, but they don’t answer their phone. I dunno, this sounds like most legit bakeries I’ve known of. Their hours are bizarre and unreliable, but people will go to _great distances_ for baked goods. You just have to find the one that cares most about turning a profit - in my case, I found the place that supplies most high-end restaurants in town. They take their stuff seriously. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/23 "2010-09-20T03:02:56Z")
As a patron of many small businesses and an employee of one small business, I understand both sides of the argument. Personally, I think that small businesses should be closed Monday instead of Sunday. Saturday and Sunday are the two days when the majority of your potential customers will likely have most of the day to actually get shit done and go shopping. Monday is the start of the work week. Be closed then, when they’re at work. Most of the businesses I know will have at least one “late” day a week, which is good. Some may be only open til 4 on Monday-Wednesday and Friday, but be open until 8 on Thursday. I know that small businesses can’t always afford the payroll to have someone open that late every day, but if you at least know there’s _one_ day you can stop by after work, it’s nice. On the business side: hey, customers: no, we often can’t compete with Walmart (or online) prices, sorry. But what we can do is offer a nice shopping experience, good customer service and _knowledge about our product_.\* I work at a shop that specializes in a certain craft. If you go to Joann’s or Michaels, I know for a fact you will find no one there who can help with your questions. If you come here, we’ll chat about your projects, be able to answer just about _any_ question you have and even help you out with how to do certain skills you need. If we don’t know the answer off-hand (or don’t have the supply you need, etc.), we can special order it for you and call you when it comes in. If you want to pay ahead of time (or are fine with giving your credit card number over the phone), we can even ship it out to you so you don’t have to make another trip. So “customers” who come in, ask tons of questions, get help and advice… and then leave to get the products online because they’re cheaper? You’re shitty, sorry. You (generally) pay more at small shops because of that helpful advice. - Of course there are small businesses that don’t have any of these, just like there are big box stores that will be more expensive or what have you. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/24 "2010-09-20T03:08:23Z")
My sister and I complain about this all the time. And it’s not just small shops–it’s standard in the medical places around here, closing at 4:00 or 5:00. It’s like they want to guarantee that we take off work in order to see them. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/25 "2010-09-20T03:10:35Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > Your attitude is a little silly. If they are opening a business, one assumes that they desire to be profitable. If the store has no interest in my business than I will just take it elsewhere. > > I doubt that there is a law anywhere that requires profitability. If they are comfortable (financially and lifestyle-wise) with opening their little store at weird hours, then that’s entirely up to the owners. Maybe they just like the social aspects of running a store and aren’t overly concerned about profit. Well, the laws of economics requires some sustainability, if it becomes an actually _ **losing** _ proposition it will fail in the long run. What you mean is that you could have a business that is profitable _ **enough** _ for the owner who then feels no need to utterly max out all potential revenue for its own sake. That does not mean it’s a “hobby”, just that the shopkeeper has a different parameter of what he wants from the business. So what **astro** describes is not so silly insofar as the not-seeking-every-customer strategy. As stated, the small shopkeepers have realized they have no chance vs. the Big Boxes for the mass market so they will not even try. OTOH, IMO cutely posting whimsical “business hours” **is** silly and bad business; you may not take yourself seriously, but with that you’re not taking _the customer_ seriously, who may need to better manage her time. But conceding that, in other aspects what may look like “no interest in your business”, could be described by others in the marketing field as instead that simply _you are not their target market_. For instance in the OP’s Glendale case whatever their target market segment is, it’s NOT people who shop on Sunday morning. So it may be people who shop Saturday early afternoon. Or Thursday evening. Or people who themselves keem their own hours. Hey, if the shop can get enough sales from those folks to stay afloat, more power to them. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/26 "2010-09-20T03:31:33Z")
I went to a music venue the other night and the neighborhood is trying to build up its quirky little businesses. The record store stays open late all the time so you can browse records before a show. The new retro toy store posts their hours 3-10 but when I went by there the night of the show the guy had the OPEN sign up and another sign that said “Call [his cell number] if you want to shop!” I suspect he lives above the store and locks up when there’s no business, but is available to unlock the door every night til 10. Everyone should do that. Live above your shop! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/27 "2010-09-20T12:55:10Z")
> [@FuzzyOgre](#): > > > [@TruCelt](#): > > > > That’s not strictly a bakery, I suspect. Please do not be rude to these folks. > > > > Just sayin’. > > I never would have suspected such a thing. I am so clueless about people. Frankly, that HAS crossed my mind. (When I was about 12, there was a mysterious building with no windows in a bad part of town. A bar or restaurant of some type, though our family lived in that town for years, and no one - NO ONE - knew anything about this establishment, who owned it, who hung out in there. It was rumoured they sold pizza, so my mother ordered one, we drove down, and I went in there to pick it up. Sure enough, a dark empty bar with two or three patrons giving me the stink eye. Even at age 12, I KNEW this was a ‘bad’ place. The pizza was inedible and so we never had to go back.) ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/28 "2010-09-20T13:01:58Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Your attitude is a little silly. If they are opening a business, one assumes that they desire to be profitable. Not necessarily, at least not in small towns, and you forget that even if they sorta kinda want to be profitable, small retail businesses in small towns are often started by people who simply don’t have a clue about running a business. I know of at least a few businesses in my town that are more or less hobby businesses, and barely turn a profit at all. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I went to a music venue the other night and the neighborhood is trying to build up its quirky little businesses. The record store stays open late all the time so you can browse records before a show. > > The new retro toy store posts their hours 3-10 but when I went by there the night of the show the guy had the OPEN sign up and another sign that said “Call [his cell number] if you want to shop!” I suspect he lives above the store and locks up when there’s no business, but is available to unlock the door every night til 10. > > Everyone should do that. Live above your shop! 🙂 Yeah, but how many people will really call him? I know I wouldn’t unless I specifically came there to buy something. I wouldn’t bug him just to shop for 10 minutes, it’d feel awkward. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/29 "2010-09-20T13:09:02Z")
> [@FuzzyOgre](#): > > > [@TruCelt](#): > > > > That’s not strictly a bakery, I suspect. Please do not be rude to these folks. > > > > Just sayin’. > > I never would have suspected such a thing. I am so clueless about people. Some of us remain clueless, even in the presence of what are surely big neon arrows pointing at the answer. Help a girl out? Are we talking about drugs? Cockfighting? _Really_ exclusive pastries? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/30 "2010-09-20T13:14:49Z")
I assumed mob connections, myself. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/31 "2010-09-20T13:18:44Z")
Oh! Well, all righty then. I would definitely suggest making no fuss about the marble cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/32 "2010-09-20T13:29:50Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > So “customers” who come in, ask tons of questions, get help and advice… and then leave to get the products online because they’re cheaper? You’re shitty, sorry. You (generally) pay more at small shops because of that helpful advice. Yeah, we get a lot of that at the camera shop. Assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@Captain\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/33 "2010-09-20T13:34:47Z")
\*\*So I get there this morning, throw my son in the stroller, and start walking around. I thought it was kind of weird that we were basically the only human beings in sight until I slowly started to realize that basically the entire place is closed. It’s Sunday. \*\* I get annoyed about Sundays too. What annoyed me, and would annoy me as a store owner was that the mall closed on Sunday night. I just think that’s insane. We’re there a lot of people there? I am vehemently opposed to the government being able to set times when a legal product can and cannot be sold. To me, it is counterproductive. Maybe my day off is Sunday and I have a need, or like the OP, want to shop, just to see that everything is closed. For no good reason that it is Sunday. Well, fuck Sunday. Why can’t the bank and the post office be open on Sunday? If I want to buy a bottle of Jack Daniels on Sunday? Why can’t I buy a fucking car on my fucking day off (to stupid car dealers, you can hire part time help for the weekends if you want your precious Sunday’s off. Duh! No wonder you fuckers are losing money. I lived in Mississippi for awhile in Rankin County. There (or at least 10 years ago) the barber was closed on Mondays. All of them. They worked the weekend and took that day off. They still got their day of rest, on a day that they would not have done that much business anyway. However, if I want to stay open on Monday, tough taters. There is a recession and a man needs to eat. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/34 "2010-09-20T13:54:57Z")
> [@astro](#): > > People expect 7 days a week access to shopping regardless of the size of the store or the context of the store’s operation. If someone is opening a quirky speciality or art shop etc. in a gentrified district they are usually not doing it in order to be open 7 days a week and make every last dollar possible. > > Being put out that these little shops don’t have Sunday hours is kind of silly. You seem to think they should be scrambling after your Sunday dollars with a Wal-Mart like lust and they just aren’t. You seem almost offended as if they don’t care enough. Get over it. Actually, the OP proposed something which seems quite reasonable to me and to most restaurant owners in Spain: set a Weekly Rest Day which is not on the weekend. In my home town the food businesses have sort of set up rosters, with half the restaurants closing on Tuesday, half on Wednesday, the takeout-only places split three ways (M-W), and the bars split four ways (M-Th). Other businesses used to have to close on Sunday by law; now they’re working on getting those laws changed and expecting to have different places close on different days. “Just ring the bell if it’s closed” signs when the owner lives above the store have been sighted in the wild. Another tactic that’s very popular in Spain is that famous “long lunch”. Stores open at hours when people with other jobs are most likely to be off work; if a store is in an area where people come off at 5pm, the stores will open at 4:30pm, not close at 5:00pm like they did in downtown Philly (which I’m still trying to understand). ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/35 "2010-09-20T13:57:41Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > I lived in Mississippi for awhile in Rankin County. There (or at least 10 years ago) the barber was closed on Mondays. All of them. In my experience, this is near-universal for barbershops and hair salons. They are open on both weekend days, but take Monday off. I don’t know why Monday is the universal day off for haircut places, as opposed to any other day of the week, but that’s been how it is in every place I’ve lived. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/36 "2010-09-20T14:07:00Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > > [@zweisamkeit](#): > > > > So “customers” who come in, ask tons of questions, get help and advice… and then leave to get the products online because they’re cheaper? You’re shitty, sorry. You (generally) pay more at small shops because of that helpful advice. > > Yeah, we get a lot of that at the camera shop. Assholes. I’m in two minds about the “asshole” thing. First of, of course, if you spend hours at a shop asking questions and pawing the merchandise, you should buy from them. No question there. But there’s a gray area between doing that and just stopping in to look at things. Up to a certain point, I’m all about supporting local businesses. Generally, if I know I’m not going to buy something at the Cool Lil’ Local shop, I don’t go there, and I don’t take up their time asking for advice. But… every once in a while, I want to give them a chance, so I go in there. And if they help me out, I’ll gladly pay a bit extra in order to hold the gadget before buying, or look through the book, or get advice, or whatever. But there IS a certain point where it just doesn’t make sense - if Camera X is selling for $500 online everywhere, but Cool Lil’ Local Camera store wants $1299 for it, come on. Your expertise and advice is NOT worth $800. It _is_ worth an extra $50 or $100 or so, depending on how much info I get and all that. What’s even worse is when they don’t give any extra advice, and they pull something like “well, we don’t have your size/that model/whatever in stock, but we can order it! It’ll be here in two weeks, and we’ll charge you full retail price, and it’s a special order so there’s no return policy.” I want to shake those people and say “Look, Dude, part of the whole advantage of having a local business stocking this gizmo is that I can look at the damn thing, and I don’t have to wait for it to come in. I can order it on the Internet with free shipping and get it here in 2 or 3 days, with a full money-back refund if I don’t like it for ANY reason. Are you just stupid? And do I look stupid? Why would I buy this from you?” So yeah, it’s tough to be a local store in this day and age. I’m glad I’m not in retail. ---
**Author:** ![VernWinterbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c67d28/32.png) [@VernWinterbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VernWinterbottom)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/37 "2010-09-20T14:14:29Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Hint- They really don’t want to compete with bigger businesses. That showdown ended over 20 years ago with mid sized downtown and business district retailers being blown out of the water by highway big box mega stores. Your expectation that they are champing at the bit to compete with Wal-Mart is kind of weird. This is true to a certain extent, however, many small business people who are open “regular business hours,” say 9-5, really cannot do as much business in these days when Dad and Mom are both working during the day, juggling kids’ activities, etc. Long gone are the days when nearly half the population could shop downtown on a weekday. Even in back in the good old days when most stores were closed on Sunday, many, many shops were open later at least a couple of nights a week, usually Thursday and/or Friday when paychecks are issued. And, at least in my area, even in the '60s certain shops like “gift shops” were exempt from the Sunday Blue Laws. Honestly, who can shop during most weekdays except the elderly on fixed incomes or the unemployed? If you want to work just 8 hours a day, open at 1:00 pm and close at 9:00 p.m. I’d rather not shop at the mall, but most of the small, local shops are closed by the time I’m able to shop. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/38 "2010-09-20T14:21:53Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Why can’t I buy a fucking car on my fucking day off (to stupid car dealers, you can hire part time help for the weekends if you want your precious Sunday’s off. Duh! No wonder you fuckers are losing money. I know a lot of people that like this. They pour over car lots on Sundays precisely because they know they won’t be approached by salesman. Me? I’m the type that has no problem sternly telling salesman I’m just browsing. No I don’t have any questions. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/39 "2010-09-20T14:30:47Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Not necessarily, at least not in small towns, and you forget that even if they sorta kinda want to be profitable, small retail businesses in small towns are often started by people who simply don’t have a clue about running a business. I know of at least a few businesses in my town that are more or less hobby businesses, and barely turn a profit at all. I could understand this in the town of 20,000 that I grew up in back east, with the historic downtown that was practically always closed (though to this day I don’t understand why the ice cream shop with the cult following closed before the 3 schools nearby let out - and I know they wanted to make money because they packaged their goods for sale in local stores.) During the 70s and 80s, strip malls moved in on the other side of town, where all the new houses were being built. They were just more convenient, and the pie was so small there that they didn’t have to take much to really crush the old shops. But Glendale, AZ is a city of over 250,000 in the core of a metro area of 4+ million. The place would be packed if they sent out one round of fliers that said “Now open Sundays!” ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319/40 "2010-09-20T14:32:07Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Somewhat related, there’s a hole in the wall bakery that sells bread and cookies. That’s it. Mr. Sali adores their marble cookies. Not only are they NOT open half the time I journey to that part of town (no hours posted, BTW), but they don’t have any marble cookies when they are open. It’s always ‘come back on Wednesday’, or ‘we sold all of them to the church people’ or ‘the guy who makes the marble cookies was out sick this week’. ??? I’ve tried calling up to reserve a dozen, but they don’t answer their phone. Besides the possible alternate explanation mentioned, they might merely be wildly popular to the point where they open very early and just sell the day’s baked goods until they’re sold out, then close up the shop and repeat the next day. Is it possible to check them out around 6 am or so and figure out if this is the case? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-main-street-usa-want-to-compete-with-bigger-businesses-heres-a-tip/554319.md?page=3)