# Hey, Manwich, Bernie lost. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2020, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413 "2020-04-09T10:21:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/41 "2020-04-09T14:16:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Now, “tough love” means that it’s time for Sanders supporters to accept that fact and realize that a vote for Biden is not capitulation to the DNC, not just a vote against Trump, but a vote for many other critically important progressive values. Okay, this is a start, but some Bernie supporters may need more encouragement and welcoming to maximize their chance of voting against Trump. If you don’t care to go to this effort, that’s fine, but if you want to help maximize this chance, I recommend being very “encouraging and welcoming” when you choose to engage Bernie supporters. Maybe it is “time to accept” this, but telling folks this may not be the best way to get them to accept this. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/42 "2020-04-09T14:17:47Z")
Bernie supporters should vote Biden, but this “I secretly love shitbag Sanders supporters” is abusive relationship levels of toxic. People will call you on that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/43 "2020-04-09T14:19:19Z")
The disconnect here seems to be between “THIS IS THE WAY THINGS ARE, JUST ACCEPT THEM” and “What is the most effective way to maximize the chances of getting Bernie supporters to vote against Trump?”. I don’t care, at all, about the first path – it literally doesn’t matter a whit to me. It’s totally irrelevant to me, true or not. I only care about the second path. How do we win? That’s what I care about, and all I care about, relative to this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/44 "2020-04-09T14:21:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So is insulting them. If you’re going to engage with Bernie supporters, be encouraging and welcoming, because it has zero cost. If you choose not to engage with Bernie supporters, and put your efforts elsewhere, that’s fine too. But insulting them wastes that “opportunity cost” as well as potentially reducing their likelihood of voting against Trump. If they are insulted by the flat out rejection of their assertion that ‘Biden is almost as bad as Trump’, then there is very little purchase for encouragement. Where do you even begin? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/45 "2020-04-09T14:23:35Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If they are insulted by the flat out rejection of their assertion that ‘Biden is almost as bad as Trump’, then there is very little purchase for encouragement. Where do you even begin? I think it’s more the language in the OP that’s insulting, not opposing dumb arguments like that. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/46 "2020-04-09T14:25:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The disconnect here seems to be between “THIS IS THE WAY THINGS ARE, JUST ACCEPT THEM” and “What is the most effective way to maximize the chances of getting Bernie supporters to vote against Trump?”. > > I don’t care, at all, about the first path – it literally doesn’t matter a whit to me. It’s totally irrelevant to me, true or not. I only care about the second path. How do we win? That’s what I care about, and all I care about, relative to this discussion. Aside: Have you considered or are you currently considering running for political office? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/47 "2020-04-09T14:27:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Aside: Have you considered or are you currently considering running for political office? Nope! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/48 "2020-04-09T14:27:07Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If they are insulted by the flat out rejection of their assertion that ‘Biden is almost as bad as Trump’, then there is very little purchase for encouragement. Where do you even begin? This keeps happening in these conversations: 1. Someone says something like: > [@Quicksilver](#): > > This is why Republicans win elections and Democrats lose. Because Republicans know what they want and just fuck. Democrats/Liberals/Progressives need flowers, dinner, romance and to feel like they’re respected by not being rushed. > > Seriously fuck off if you need Biden to make you feel special. 1. They get called on it. 2. They rephrase what they said as something much more innocuous like “rejection of their assertion that ‘Biden is almost as bad as Trump,’” and act all confused about how what they said was insulting. Quicksilver, it’s not insulting to reject the “Biden is almost as bad as Trump” claim. Quicksilver, it is insulting to describe progressives as needing flower, dinner, romance. Quicksilver, it is insulting to say “fuck off.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/49 "2020-04-09T14:34:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This keeps happening in these conversations: > > 1. Someone says something like: > > 2. They get called on it. > > 3. They rephrase what they said as something much more innocuous like “rejection of their assertion that ‘Biden is almost as bad as Trump,’” and act all confused about how what they said was insulting. > > Quicksilver, it’s not insulting to reject the “Biden is almost as bad as Trump” claim. > > Quicksilver, it is insulting to describe progressives as needing flower, dinner, romance. > > Quicksilver, it is insulting to say “fuck off.” I’m not confused about who I’ve insulted or why: > [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > But it _would_ be Biden’s fault. Nobody _owes_ Biden their vote. If I think that Joe Biden is just a neoliberal shill giving cover to the rapacious moneyed interests that make it so hard to get on in life, then the fact that Donald Trump might be, like, 20% worse or whatever isn’t going to be enough to get me off my ass on Election Day. It’s Biden’s job to make voters believe in him. If he can’t do that then that’s on him. Politicians have certain obligations. So do voters. Because elections have consequences. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/50 "2020-04-09T14:39:21Z")
Too late for edit, so also this…: > [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Also, point of order; you absolutely _are_ playing that game, whether you like it or not. The fact is, there are many people - people who would’ve gladly walked through fire for Bernie Sanders - who don’t see much of a problem staying home if their choice is between Biden and Trump. > > You can either convince them to vote for Joe Biden, or you can whine like a bitch. What’s it going to be? ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/51 "2020-04-09T14:59:41Z")
I guess it’s good that someone is actually passionately supportive of Biden. Pace yourself though dale, your head is going to explode now Trump and Fox News etc go fact free, gloves off attacking Biden ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/52 "2020-04-09T15:05:36Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > I guess it’s good that someone is actually passionately supportive of Biden. Pace yourself though dale, your head is going to explode now Trump and Fox News etc go fact free, gloves off attacking Biden I don’t think there is any Dem nominee that would be spared the full force of the Trump/Fox attack machine. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/53 "2020-04-09T15:38:41Z")
Keep in mind, before **dalej42** had Bernie Sanders, Martin Luther King Jr. occupied a special place in his heart. In 2005 he was ‘just asking questions’: [MLK and secret FBI documents?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=440018) > [@MLK and secret FBI documents?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-and-secret-fbi-documents/304177/1): > > Many white supremacy groups claim that Martin Luther King, Jr. was involved with a white prostitute on the night before his assassination. They will also claim the FBI has files which have been locked away for years. They also claim the Dr. King plagarized his doctoral dissertation. Are any of these claims true? Did J. Edgar Hoover really claim “A tomcat has more morals than Martin Luther King?” Or, are these just racist claims made up by white supremacy groups? > > I’m not linking to the websites as it is a violation of the terms of the SDMB to link to hate groups. In 2006 more questions: [Why do we deify Martin Luther King, Jr.?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=399546) > [@Why do we deify Martin Luther King, Jr.?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-deify-martin-luther-king-jr/383614/1): > > [Here](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030502.html) is a link from Cecil which mentions some unflattering facts about Martin Luther King, Jr. Almost every discussion about the United States’ founding fathers will not hesitate to mention that they were wealthy and owned slaves. Should discussions of MLK always be prefaced by his love of prostitutes? Then a post here or there over the years (this is not a complete list). 2007 > [@SIU President shows evidence of graduating Bulla Cum Shit years ago](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siu-president-shows-evidence-of-graduating-bulla-cum-shit-years-ago/422527/6): > > Martin Luther King, Jr. showed plenty of evidence of plagiarism in his doctoral dissertation. > > Hasn’t hurt his reputation. 2010 > [@What if Martin Luther King had not been assassinated?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-martin-luther-king-had-not-been-assassinated/525447/11): > > He’d be right there with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. His cheating on his wife would be front page news. Then this 2015 magnum opus: [Let’s pit Martin Luther King!](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=746440) > [@Let's pit Martin Luther King!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/1): > > So here we go again. Endless “I have a dream” clips. Every politician bending over backwards to show their love for this useless turd. Endless bullshit about “Doctor King” Hell, some pastors will even call him a saint. The idea of MLK being considers a saint makes me want to vomit a lung. > > Martin Luther King was a despicable human being. Dr. Seuss is more entitled to use the Doctor title than Mr. King. King cheated in college by plagiarizing his dissertation. His doctorate should be stripped. > > King also embezzled money, some of which was used to hire prostitutes. This so called reverend is just as bad as Jimmy Swaggart. We don’t have a holiday for Swaggart Day. Admittedly, his wife was an obnoxious bitch in her own right. > > Was he a communist? Probably. I’d love to get my hands on the sealed FBI files. I’m sure there’s even more reasons to hate Mr. King . > > Every time I see his ugly face pop up on TV screens for the next 3 days, I’ll be extending him the middle finger salute. Not worthy of a holiday , not worthy of the worship he receives, just a huckster self promoter. > > [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2449/was-martin-luther-king-jr-a-plagiarist](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2449/was-martin-luther-king-jr-a-plagiarist) I supported Warren on super Tuesday, and will happily support Biden in November. I sincerely hope all Bernie supporters do the same. **dalej42** is a piece of shit, and remains so even when his views align with mine. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/54 "2020-04-09T15:55:56Z")
I forgot to add… **dalej42** also hates ‘gold-diggers’. However, he has a pretty non-standard definition of gold-digger. To him it appears to mean, ‘victim of domestic abuse at the hands of a professional athlete’. Thread: [Ray Rice goes Tubthumping](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=724215). Selected post: > [@Ray Rice goes Tubthumping.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/75): > > I would call her a gold digger to her face. It’s quite obvious that they agreed to marry to make sure prosecution of Rice would be almost impossible. She has her hands on half his money now. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ray Rice went out and bought her Kobe Bryant style bling. Thread: [Semyon Varlamov sued byex girlfriend: Gold Digger alert?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=738746) Selected post: > [@Semyon Varlamov sued byex girlfriend: Gold Digger alert?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semyon-varlamov-sued-byex-girlfriend-gold-digger-alert/702688/1): > > [Report: Varlamov being sued by ex-girlfriend - NBC Sports](http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/27/report-varlamov-being-sued-by-ex-girlfriend/) > > Avalanche goalie Semyon Varlamov is being sued by his ex girlfriend, Evgenia Varinyuk for several instances of physical abuse. He was arrested for assault last year but charges were dropped. Apparently, Ms. Varinyuk kept changing her story. > > Now, with the Avalanche struggling and all of the domestic violence charges being tossed around in the NFL, Varinyuk pops back up with what looks like a money grab. This isn’t the first time she’s done this. Last year, while charges were pending, she was requesting compensation to give interviews about the alleged assault. > > Playing goalie in the NHL is a very mental job. Hopefully Varlamov can leave the lawsuit off the ice and keep his focus on his game. I’m not an Avalanche fan, but I love good hockey and great goaltending. Seriously. Fuck that guy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/55 "2020-04-09T15:57:17Z")
Wow, thanks for all that, **Lance**. What a piece of shit **dale** has shown himself to be. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/56 "2020-04-09T16:00:25Z")
I haven’t explained myself well. What I’m trying to say is that Biden isn’t going to win by suddenly making people realise that Trump is a dangerous buffoon. Trump actively parades dangerous buffoonery while calling it charm and wit. Even campaigning on a conservative 5-4 being better than a conservative 6-3 seems like a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/57 "2020-04-09T16:30:04Z")
But weren’t you also the one saying Biden was clearly deteriorating and would be essentially incapable of independent thought/action any day now? And in mid-March (after Super Tuesday) that Sanders had more or less locked it the nomination and would win big in the remaining states? Maybe not the most objective on the subject? I appreciate that people should still make an effort to engage, but it seems maybe you are looking for some kind of promise that Biden will simply become Sanders or take up his entire platform verbatim? That’s not going to happen and your goalposts seem to shift by the day or the week. People have been giving you a lot of solid reasons but aren’t going to tell you lies, i.e. Biden will drastically change his platform to suit you. If that’s not enough, so be it, but I can see why some are frustrated with some of your more outre demands. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/58 "2020-04-09T16:33:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Some Bernie supporters are very upset, and because they’re humans, they might not be able to philosophically and emotionally turn on a dime, but rather might need some welcoming and encouragement. A lot of supporters for other candidates swallowed real hard after the New Hampshire primaries and resolved to vote for Bernie if that was what it came down to. I’m sure there were a few “never Bernie” types out there but it didn’t seem to be anywhere near as common as the Bernie or bust types we saw following South Carolina. Why do Bernie supporters need so much more handholding to make an adult decision? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/59 "2020-04-09T16:37:00Z")
Look, dalej42 assery aside, Biden has a good chance to beat Trump. Trump had a small bump at first in support from the pandemic but as people realize he’s hurting us, [his popularity is dropping](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/). Biden is increasing his lead in the general polls but also winning key states that HRC lost last to time to Trump and Trump is not picking up any new states. Biden is not my first choice but as he can beat Trump and looks like he is beating Trump. Yay! Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/60 "2020-04-09T16:40:47Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > But it _would_ be Biden’s fault. Nobody _owes_ Biden their vote. If I think that Joe Biden is just a neoliberal shill giving cover to the rapacious moneyed interests that make it so hard to get on in life, then the fact that Donald Trump might be, like, 20% worse or whatever isn’t going to be enough to get me off my ass on Election Day. It’s Biden’s job to make voters believe in him. If he can’t do that then that’s on him. Are you white because if you were a minority of any type or stripe, you would know that capitalism is not the primary reason Trump is such a bad candidate. Economically, he isn’t much better or worse than any other Republican (except on trade). If you are generally not inclined to vote for Democrats over Republicans then based on his economic policy, you are probably not going to be inclined to vote for Biden over Trump. But Trump has Made America Racist Again. Sure it was always there like herpes waiting to flare up but Trump seems to be encouraging it in a way that no politician in the last 30 years has. If you really can’t see that much daylight between Trump and mainstream Democrats then you’re probably a Bernie or bust type. You are entitled to your beliefs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413.md?page=4)