# Hey, Manwich, Bernie lost. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2020, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413 "2020-04-09T10:21:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/81 "2020-04-09T17:53:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s hard for me to imagine anything more horrible to spend my time on than knocking on hundreds or thousands of doors and trying to convince strangers to like me. I tend to doubt political office would be right for me. That is twice today that someone suggested you belong in politics. I’m not sure how you can put up with such insults so magnanimously. Unless you may well be destined for public office. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/82 "2020-04-09T17:57:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > That is twice today that someone suggested you belong in politics. I’m not sure how you can put up with such insults so magnanimously. Unless you may well be destined for public office. Being the Arlington district Rep sounds like a great job – good pay, great benefits, interesting and meaningful work, no need to maintain two houses like most Reps, etc. But getting there? Ugghhh… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/83 "2020-04-09T18:02:50Z")
Andy should stick to writing. Don’t waste your time in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/84 "2020-04-09T18:18:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This keeps happening in these conversations: > > 1. Someone says something like: > > 2. They get called on it. > > 3. They rephrase what they said as something much more innocuous like “rejection of their assertion that ‘Biden is almost as bad as Trump,’” and act all confused about how what they said was insulting. > > Quicksilver, it’s not insulting to reject the “Biden is almost as bad as Trump” claim. > > Quicksilver, it is insulting to describe progressives as needing flower, dinner, romance. > > Quicksilver, it is insulting to say “fuck off.” If Quicksilver were saying this of all progressives, you’d be right. But I _think_ he’s specifically saying it of the “Biden has to earn my vote” crowd. In which case, he’s right. And I’m not an expert in wooing voters by any stretch, but that crowd is going to need some flavor of the “you aren’t going to get what you want, and you should still vote Biden” argument. Preferably, the most effective flavor of that argument. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/85 "2020-04-09T18:19:23Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > I guess it’s good that someone is actually passionately supportive of Biden. Pace yourself though dale, your head is going to explode now Trump and Fox News etc go fact free, gloves off attacking Biden Wait, **Manwich** is a Doper? Oh. Guess I should have clicked on that link in the OP. That said, maybe it’s nothing more than a telling point about me, but I don’t _get_ the idea that “passionate support” of a candidacy is even all that common, much less a prerequisite for getting one to stand up and perform one’s duty. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/86 "2020-04-09T18:21:06Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I am not a democrat. I do not like the democratic party. If we did not live in a managed democracy, and there was a party that put the interest of the people over the interest of the rich, I would vote for that. Wanting Bernie as president does not make me a democrat, nor does it make voting for the democrat more appealing. > > Furthermore, being told that voting for the lesser of two evils is the “adult decision” is a big reason as to why we’re a managed democracy, and why our two choices are evil. There are countries out there in which you do not have to vote for the lesser of two evils, because at least one, sometimes both, sides are not evil. I know I’m being manipulated and forced into this lesser of two evils situation, as I have been almost all of my life, as I will likely be for the rest of my life. “Lesser of two evils” is a false choice, manufacturing consent to be ruled by evil. It’s the reason this country has been getting worse for the average person for several decades. > > So, given that I do not like the democratic party, am not a democrat, do not want a democrat to be president in a vacuum, and do not appreciate being forced into constantly voting for bad presidents with bad policies, I do not owe the democrats a vote. They especially make it hard when they hand me such a bad fucking candidate. > > But I recognize the uniquely bad nature of Trump, and that if he’s not defeated, that’s probably it for even having a managed democracy. So I’ll almost certainly be voting for Biden. But I’m disgusted with my compliance with this bullshit system, disgusted to have to vote for someone I very much don’t want to be president, disgusted that the democratic party is going to keep chasing the Republicans to the right because, what am I going to do? I have to vote for the lesser of two evils! > > There are a lot of people who recognize this, who don’t want to be part of this bullshit system, who owe nothing to the democratic party. Telling them they’re forced to participate in this bullshit system and that they’re never going to get a president that actually has their interest at heart so just suck it up and vote for the lesser evil is a tough pill to swallow. So if you want them on your side, to vote for your party, at the very least, try not to alienate them. We fucking hate this disgusting position that you - as a supporter of the democratic party - have put us in, by allowing your party to be controlled by the same masters as the republican party. I don’t owe you or your party a vote, and I’m disgusted that I’m going to give it anyway. What do you think insulting me and doing a victory lap about the corporate democrat establishment crushing one of the only people in politics who is genuine and wants to improve the lives of the average American is going to do but make it even harder for me to swallow that bitter pill? > > I’m not going to stay home, but other people might. If you want them to be on your team, you should try being persuasive and making them want to be on it and feel less disgusted by being on it, not trying to stick their noses in it and gloat about how they have no choice. I’m a progressive Independent. I suspect there are many progressive Independents on this message board and in this very thread and many like it. Most of us are disenchanted with the choices facing us in this election and many others. Lament the two party system in the US all you want but do so knowing you have no idea how tortured a multi-party system can be (e.g. Israel, Canada) and how it can paralyze a nation with political infighting and backroom deal making. Talk about a “bullshit” system. Honestly, your ideas about politics are unbelievably idealistic and naive if you think the grass is greener elsewhere. Where are these utopian nations where the choices are between _great_ and _awesome_? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/87 "2020-04-09T18:25:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Being the Arlington district Rep sounds like a great job – good pay, great benefits, interesting and meaningful work, no need to maintain two houses like most Reps, etc. But getting there? Ugghhh… So you have thought about it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/88 "2020-04-09T18:30:23Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Andy should stick to writing. Don’t waste your time in politics. Thank you! I plan to. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/89 "2020-04-09T18:34:00Z")
Every other first world country on the planet has a healthier political discourse than the US. They are less blatantly oligarchic. They actually try to, generally, serve the public as a whole, and the government isn’t just the enforcement arm of the rich and corporations trying to loot their country. Other than perhaps some corruption issues in a few countries, I don’t think there’s a rich country in the world that has a worse political landscape than we do. Nowhere else is the choice between a right wing corporatist party completely run by the rich, and another right wing corporatist party run by the rich. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/90 "2020-04-09T18:46:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It depends on what it takes to convince them. If it’s just holding out your hand and opening the door for them, no problem. But if it’s letting Bernie choose the VP or change the platform to look more like his platform then we should just move on and hope we can win without their support. It may come to that, but contemplating it fills me with dread. It may well turn out that [we NEED Jojo and his “Yopp.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horton_Hears_a_Who!#Plot) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/91 "2020-04-09T18:58:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m a progressive Independent. I suspect there are many progressive Independents on this message board and in this very thread and many like it. Most of us are disenchanted with the choices facing us in this election and many others. Lament the two party system in the US all you want but do so knowing you have no idea how tortured a multi-party system can be (e.g. Israel, Canada) Wtf? You’re lumping Canada in with Israel? Multiparty democracy is not tortured in Canada, at least not in any way similar to Israel. I honestly don’t even have a clue what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/92 "2020-04-09T19:01:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Oh FFS! How many times do we have to go through this? This is not just about a vote for Biden. This is about who gets to appoint the next SC judge or two. This is about whether the ACA gets support or gets dismantled. This is about the DOJ and every government institution that has been eroded in the past 4 years. > > This is why Republicans win elections and Democrats lose. Because Republicans know what they want and just fuck. Democrats/Liberals/Progressives need flowers, dinner, romance and to feel like they’re respected by not being rushed. > > Seriously fuck off if you need Biden to make you feel special. We all wish it was Liz or Cory or Pete or Bernie. But it’s not. It’s Uncle Joe or the orange assclown. Get your priorities right. It gets annoying listening to everything be blamed on the left. Sanders wins the primary but loses the general - the left is to blame Biden wins the primary but loses the general - the left is to blame. Sanders drives away suburban voters and loses the general - the left is to blame Biden drives away liberal voters and loses the general - the left is to blame It gets old. The left make up nearly half of the democratic voting establishment, nearly 30 million voters. They also probably make up the bulk of that 1 billion a year in small donor fundraising the democrats enjoy. Also liberals probably make up a huge fraction if not outright majority of volunteers. Liberals vote consistently more than other democratic groups. They donate more money, they volunteer more. In return they get treated like shit. I never saw any of you guys speak to suburban purple voters like this about why they should support Sanders if Sanders won the primary. When there were fears Sanders would drive away purple voters in the suburbs it was all ‘we have to stop Sanders’. now that there is fear Biden will drive away leftist voters its hatred and rage against them. Apparently the left dont’ deserve the same level of respect that moderate republicans in the suburbs get. And yes I’m voting for Biden. But jesus, its sad that in 2020 the best we can do is a guy like him. People need time to mourn that in a nation where 70% of voters are non-whites and women, that our candidate is a gullible centrist who happily sells out his voters and has a history of sexual accusations. Give people time to grieve. There are a multitude of very real, and very serious issues in America (mostly relating to democracy, economics, health care and sustainability). They aren’t being addressed in a responsible fashion by either party, and all that anger and disappointment isn’t going to go away. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/93 "2020-04-09T19:08:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m a progressive Independent. I suspect there are many progressive Independents on this message board and in this very thread and many like it. Most of us are disenchanted with the choices facing us in this election and many others. Lament the two party system in the US all you want but do so knowing you have no idea how tortured a multi-party system can be (e.g. Israel, Canada) > [@CarnalK](#): > > Wtf? You’re lumping Canada in with Israel? Multiparty democracy is not tortured in Canada, at least not in any way similar to Israel. I honestly don’t even have a clue what you mean. Not to speak for him, but he might mean _tortuous_… ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/94 "2020-04-09T19:13:46Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Every other first world country on the planet has a healthier political discourse than the US. They are less blatantly oligarchic. They actually try to, generally, serve the public as a whole, and the government isn’t just the enforcement arm of the rich and corporations trying to loot their country. Other than perhaps some corruption issues in a few countries, I don’t think there’s a rich country in the world that has a worse political landscape than we do. Nowhere else is the choice between a right wing corporatist party completely run by the rich, and another right wing corporatist party run by the rich. I htink a lot of that comes down to racial resentment and low voter turnout. Due to racial resentment, a lot of voters honestly don’t give a shit what economic policies a party supports as long as it supports racial resentment. Back when the democrats were truly a party of social democracy (under FDR), southern whites were overwhelmingly democratic because the democrats were the party of racial resentment. After LBJ and the southern strategy most southern whites are overwhelmingly republican despite the republicans being a party of plutocracy. Lots of angry white voters don’t seem to understand or care about politics outside of race and it shows. Southern whites will vote for a socialist party and they will vote for a plutocratic party, just so long as that party supports racial resentment against non-whites. But also, our voter turnout is low. We get 60% on a good presidential year and 40% on a good midterm year. If our turnout was closer to 80% (which may be possible with automatic voter registration and mandatory voting by mail) our politics would reflect that. But sadly, our democracy just rewards rural voters more and right now rural voters tend to have high levels of racial animosity. Rural voters have more influence in the house, senate and presidency than urban voters on a per capita level. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/95 "2020-04-09T19:14:35Z")
Speaking of Don Beyer, he is the author of the Fair Representation Act, a bill which changes the method of electing the House of Representatives in such a way that a Democratic Socialist Party would have a real shot at formal representation in Congress. If Donald and the Republican gang win again, we’ll be at least, _at least,_ another four years before election reform helping third parties is even discussed in a meaningful manner. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/96 "2020-04-09T19:22:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Hunh. Well, it doesn’t necessarily make him wrong in this case but I’ve been giving him some benefit of the doubt based on the frustration I feel towards some of the Bernie supporters who honestly don’t look like they are trying to hold the election hostage to try and change Biden’s platform to look more like bernies when Bernie platform lost and biden’s platform won. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That’s a good point. I mistook him for someone else. If it’s this hard to keep track of what people say and express in the relatively small sandbox of the SDMB, I suggest to you (and everyone) that your personal analysis (and all of our analyses) about how virulent and pervasive the “Bernie or no one” attitude is _just might_ be inaccurate, and based more on our personal bubbles, and our desire to feel a certain way about certain people than some real understanding about the numbers of generally Dem-leaning voters who are planning on staying home. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/97 "2020-04-09T19:26:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If our turnout was closer to 80% (which may be possible with automatic voter registration and mandatory voting by mail) our politics would reflect that. You just “mandatory” and “mail” in the same sentence. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/98 "2020-04-09T21:06:17Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You just “mandatory” and “mail” in the same sentence. > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Mandatory meaning the only option. In some states the default option is to vote in person but you can request a ballot by mail. In Oregon none of that is accurate, you can’t pick between mail in ballots vs in person, and you don’t request a ballot. In Oregon they automatically register everyone, and they automatically mail ballots to all registered voters. There is no option to vote at a polling place. A system like that can drive up voter turnout quite a bit. I know Australia has mandatory voting. It is something we should look into in the US but I’m not sure how we could enforce it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/99 "2020-04-09T21:32:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I am not a democrat. I do not like the democratic party. If we did not live in a managed democracy, and there was a party that put the interest of the people over the interest of the rich, I would vote for that. Wanting Bernie as president does not make me a democrat, nor does it make voting for the democrat more appealing. > > Furthermore, being told that voting for the lesser of two evils is the “adult decision” is a big reason as to why we’re a managed democracy, and why our two choices are evil. There are countries out there in which you do not have to vote for the lesser of two evils, because at least one, sometimes both, sides are not evil. I know I’m being manipulated and forced into this lesser of two evils situation, as I have been almost all of my life, as I will likely be for the rest of my life. “Lesser of two evils” is a false choice, manufacturing consent to be ruled by evil. It’s the reason this country has been getting worse for the average person for several decades. > > So, given that I do not like the democratic party, am not a democrat, do not want a democrat to be president in a vacuum, and do not appreciate being forced into constantly voting for bad presidents with bad policies, I do not owe the democrats a vote. They especially make it hard when they hand me such a bad fucking candidate. > > But I recognize the uniquely bad nature of Trump, and that if he’s not defeated, that’s probably it for even having a managed democracy. So I’ll almost certainly be voting for Biden. But I’m disgusted with my compliance with this bullshit system, disgusted to have to vote for someone I very much don’t want to be president, disgusted that the democratic party is going to keep chasing the Republicans to the right because, what am I going to do? I have to vote for the lesser of two evils! > > There are a lot of people who recognize this, who don’t want to be part of this bullshit system, who owe nothing to the democratic party. Telling them they’re forced to participate in this bullshit system and that they’re never going to get a president that actually has their interest at heart so just suck it up and vote for the lesser evil is a tough pill to swallow. So if you want them on your side, to vote for your party, at the very least, try not to alienate them. We fucking hate this disgusting position that you - as a supporter of the democratic party - have put us in, by allowing your party to be controlled by the same masters as the republican party. I don’t owe you or your party a vote, and I’m disgusted that I’m going to give it anyway. What do you think insulting me and doing a victory lap about the corporate democrat establishment crushing one of the only people in politics who is genuine and wants to improve the lives of the average American is going to do but make it even harder for me to swallow that bitter pill? > > I’m not going to stay home, but other people might. If you want them to be on your team, you should try being persuasive and making them want to be on it and feel less disgusted by being on it, not trying to stick their noses in it and gloat about how they have no choice. The reason Joe Biden is the candidate is that more people voted for him than Bernie. The very people who you say Bernie champions looked at him and decided they wanted the other guy. He wasn’t imposed on the USA by Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates. And in November tens of millions of ordinary people will line up to vote for Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413/100 "2020-04-09T22:00:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Wtf? You’re lumping Canada in with Israel? Multiparty democracy is not tortured in Canada, at least not in any way similar to Israel. I honestly don’t even have a clue what you mean. Currently the Liberal party has a [minority government](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/22/canadian-pm-justin-trudeaus-liberals-to-form-minority-government-cbc.html)and has to rely on NDP: > [@](#): > > The vote showed a deeply divided country with the defeated Conservatives winning the popular vote, while a resurgent separatist Bloc Quebecois made big strides in the mainly French-speaking province of Quebec. > > The Liberals had won or were leading in 156 out of 338 seats in Monday’s vote, according to Elections Canada. That put the Liberals far short of the 170 seats needed for a second straight majority government. > > He [Trudeau] will now have to rely on the New Democratic Party (NDP) to push through key legislation. > > Minority governments in Canada rarely last more than 2-1/2 years. Not the first time this has happened in Canada. Not as bad as Israel, I agree. But just wanted to show SenorBeef that a multi-party system has a whole other set of issues to contend with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-manwich-bernie-lost/851413.md?page=6)