# Hey, me. Yeah, you, me! I'm calling you out. (Very long.) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2001, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-me-yeah-you-me-im-calling-you-out-very-long/84085 "2001-09-27T09:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-me-yeah-you-me-im-calling-you-out-very-long/84085/1 "2001-09-27T09:05:49Z")
The thread title’s not actually in jest. I am calling myself out. The following after this run-on sentence rambles from a somewhat standard opening, unexpectedly shimmies into an apology, then wanders into something that’s close to witnessing—which might confuse some number of people who’ve had me pegged as a not-very-notable Straight Dope atheist fellow—then for the longest penultimate section contains a short-short-short story my brain kicked out whole instead of letting me get some sleep earlier, and wraps up with a final apology. But before all that: sorry about that run-on. I usually cut them short before that length. Over in [this IMHO thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=89501), **reprise** wondered at the TM’s how the horrific events of 9/11 had shaken their faith, or lack of same, or if it hadn’t at all. Various folks chimed in, yay and nay. I said, > [@](#): > > It helps, of course, that my faith doesn’t rest on a personal and loving Power that looks out for everyone…if your faith does rest on that, you’ve got problems when faced with such things as a young child wailing over the casket of his dead and single mother. The ellipseseed (not a word, but it is for right now, dagnabbit) portion was a reference to [this Dan Savage column](http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3734/savage3734.html) (warning: page contains large bold letters mentioning “poo eating”) from the wonderful Onion (America’s finest news source), specifically this paragraph: > [@](#): > > Confidential to all the folks who are mad at me for doubting the existence of a loving God who hears our prayers and gets off His ass every once in a while and helps us out down here: Did you see the picture of the sobbing 8-year-old boy bent over the casket of his mother in the Sept. 18 issue of The New York Times? The boy’s mother was a single parent, and he’s an only child. I challenge everyone who wrote in to tell me that “God doesn’t give us anything we can’t handle”—especially the dozens who sent me that infuriating one-set-of-footprints story—to sit and stare at that picture for an hour and then tell me there’s a loving God up there somewhere. Oh, I’ll grant you that there might be a God or a higher power or something. But a loving God, higher power, or something? Don’t make me puke. Which I’d read not very long before, and thought, pretty much, fuck yeah. And in light of **reprise** ’s question: “I don’t want this to become a debate about whether there exists an ultimate being or not, I’m just curious about the impact September had on people’s existing ideas and beliefs.” Mr. Savage so completely nailed an existing belief of mine, which the events of 9/11 very much had an impact on. Exception was taken; perhaps partially because by coincidence of posting, my original bit appeared four scant minutes after **RTFirefly** ’s own two cents, and it would be difficult to find two thematically-different posts. But mostly because it was delivered in an incredibly insensitive way. I daresay dander was raised. Full spectacle over yonder, and a blow-by-blow isn’t my intent here. What is my intent is an apology. I stand by what I said, but not the way in which I said it. I was going to head to bed just before starting this here ramble, but something was nagging at me, nagging at me. And it occurred to me what it was: in another MPSIMS thread I wrote (it appears to be dying a thread death of no-cuts, must mention breasts in title, must mention breasts in title, I’ll grasp that someday, I swear 🙂 ), I concluded “there is no such thing as a trivial act.” There’s nothing good about doing something hurtful, walking away, and not thinking about it. Internal mind genies nudged at me, nudge nudge. “Hey, Drastic. We’re getting some internal irony readings here. \ Uhhh…you wanna look at these, boss? Because, sir, we here in the Clue Department were kinda talking about them, and we really think you should. Sir.” And damned if they weren’t correct. They had it all cross-referenced and everything, but I think when the lot of them strolled past my door while singing “One of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn’t belong,” that was a bit excessive on their part. And thus, I am sorry. If I offended and hurt (I tend to believe that all offense involves hurt) one, by the Law of Lurkers and Biting Tongues, I did so to more. I’m not thrilled about doing that. One of the things my faith _does_ rest on is, what people should do in this life is work on reducing the amount of suffering in the world. That is right. Anything done that increases the amount of suffering in the world, well, that’s the complete opposite of right. The way I expressed that which I do stand by, was on the wrong side of that line. I will now witness just a tiny bit, to give those on the fence a chance to stay angry. Fair’s fair, and a good lather is cathartic from time to time. But I do stand by it. Yes, there are profound and deep spiritual arguments as to the Problem of Evil. Intervention versus Free Will, that God cannot and must not be judged from the human standpoint of being bound into time in the land of the Quick, that of Ineffability, and that His Plan must not be doubted, even as His Presence leaves no doubt to those graced with it. But in this life, in this land of the Quick, I don’t give a fuck about those arguments, which is why I won’t be in Great Debates about them. I oppose suffering not at the level of intellect, but at a deepness of experience I denied for about a decade’s chunk of time out of my life, a chunk of time I sometimes bitterly regret, my faith. I do not now, and don’t foresee ever compromising on that I do not stomach anything that condones it, anything that implies that really, it’s deserved. And if that stems from me simply not “getting” the theological arguments justifying or resolving the pure suffering throughout existence, if my faith is blind in that stance, then I am blind. So be it. But I do give a fuck about people who do give a fuck about those arguments. I can only hope that distinction’s actually important. Maybe I’ll get damned because of it, but I kinda doubt it. I think, if Christianity does have its eschatology pretty much nailed (and all the Buddhists in Heaven get good-natured ribbing from time to time about things. “So how’s that bardo, Bhikku? Har har!” “Why I oughtta…”), it might happen a little like the following. I will now relate a longer quasi-witnessing (for something which isn’t even my conscious religion) in story form. Those folks who wish to remain angrymay be offended at its levity in tone, or that one of the final lines lifts itself from “The Big Lebowski,” opinions of which are often as sharply divided as those over matters of faith—and in the end, perhaps matter just as little. Another lifts itself from ”The Prophecy,” which I’m sure is even more theologically…troublesome. (Apparently, this is _so_ long that it’s making vbulletin code choke on handling it all at once. So I’m going to try splitting it into halves.) ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-me-yeah-you-me-im-calling-you-out-very-long/84085/2 "2001-09-27T09:10:13Z")
One day, it was Drastic’s last one day. Things never went well when he did a lot of third-person self-reference, and this was to be no exception. You would think the odds of dying in a freak zamboni accident, especially when one almost never goes to anywhere with an active zamboni, are pretty slim. Well, so did Drastic. Boy, was he surprised! He was actually pretty famous afterwards, in a sort of office-email exchange way. “Holy FUCK, that hurt!” he exclaimed afterwards. Relatively speaking, it had ended fairly quickly, but subjectively…oof. “THIS WILL HURT MORE, SINNER!” thundered a voice that put shame to thunder. Just before he began to find out if it was possible to soil oneself in the afterlife, the thunder broke into laughter. “Oh, oh, oh, I am terribly sorry. \ It just gets funnier every single time we do that. Come on in.” Well I’ll be…actually I guess I won’t be. So that’s what angels look like. And…oh. That…would be Jesus. I might be in trouble after all. Thinking such things, he did the reasonable thing, which was to scuff his feet and look down, and whisper, “I’m sorry.” And Jesus cocked his head. One of the angels started giggling again, because Jesus looks really cute when he does that, it’s one of his most endearing traits. “For what?” “Er…because I never believed in you. Which…means I rejected you, which means…” looking around helplessly, “…which means this is just a stopover, from what I gathered. Fuck.” Jesus laughed. “You have no idea how often I have to explain this. But you’re a very silly person. Do you remember that time when your faith came back, even if you didn’t call it that at the time?” “Like I could forget.” “You remember the wind and the waves and the rocks, and sitting there the calmest you’d been in years, and suddenly feeling the most intense feeling of nearness, of love for the world, of intense gratitude that you had the gift of being in it?” [sub]”Yes.”[/sub] Drastic never had quite gotten the hang of being very emotional. Something about the situation was drawing it out of him. “You opened your heart to the Holy Spirit then, and it did enter you. And you were saved. You think that what you _said_ after that changed it? Let me tell you, you might be surprised at just how much of an effort it takes not to be. Most people literally don’t have that effort in them. And when they talk about mercy…they’re understating things.” It was interesting how falling to his knees didn’t hurt at all. “Oh, Jesus…” “That’s right man. Nobody fucks with the Jesus. Now will you please get up? You’re gonna love the sights.” “Uh…I’ve got some questions here…” “Yeah, you all do. Did you know why all people have that little furrow under their nose?” “Wait a second…I saw this movie…” “Yeah, Christopher Walken’s a card. But they had the gist of the line right, even if it was never meant to be so creepy. A long time ago, before you were born, when your soul was first formed, my Father whispered into your ear. He told you a secret. _The_ secret. And then he put a finger over your lip like this…and said, shh.” And he put his finger over Drastic’s mouth, and then said, vaguely translated, “hhhs.” He remembered. There were no more questions. At least, I should hope it would go something like that. To any I’ve hurt and/or offended with that thread referenced waaaaay up there, I sincerely apologize. Bringing even the slightest smidgeon extra of hurt into the world is something I’m striving very hard not to do these days. It’s likely not all that effective at showing yet, but I never claimed to be doing it with any sort of finesse. I’ve always tried to adhere to the motto of “don’t apologize, improve,” so I’ll shut up now. (Hush, you peanut gallery. Enough with the wild cheering and halleleujahs! Hush, I say! \ ) May the power of your choice bless us all. I think the world could probably use it. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-me-yeah-you-me-im-calling-you-out-very-long/84085/3 "2001-09-27T12:38:30Z")
\<_snicker_\> Aint that conscience a bitch? Well done. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-me-yeah-you-me-im-calling-you-out-very-long/84085/4 "2001-09-27T22:23:50Z")
Jesus, that reads like a Chick Tract with an MST3K overdub edited by Terry Pratchett. These things always make me remember being assigned Dostoyevsky’s “the suffering of innnocent children” bit in Bros. Karamozov in a philosophy class and thinking, “oh shut up, Fyodor, you apologist putz.” But then again I’m unencumbered by faith (or encumbered by lack of it–not sure yet, as life progresses). I respect faith-- it’s an interesting and powerful phenomenon-- and wish I could have a bit of it, but it’s not something we can fake, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-me-yeah-you-me-im-calling-you-out-very-long/84085/5 "2001-09-27T22:54:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Jesus, that reads like a Chick Tract with an MST3K overdub edited by Terry Pratchett. [Mr. Burns]Excellent.[/Mr. Burns] Mind if I quote you for a sig? > [@](#): > > Aint that conscience a bitch? Life would be simpler without it. More options, really. I could get around to that crime syndicate career I’ve thought about, for one thing, but noooo. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-me-yeah-you-me-im-calling-you-out-very-long/84085/6 "2001-09-27T22:56:50Z")
Dan Savage actually writes for Seattle’s “The Stranger” (an alternative news weekly), not The Onion. The Onion just carries the column. Carry on, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-me-yeah-you-me-im-calling-you-out-very-long/84085/7 "2001-09-27T23:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MsWhatsit \* > \*\*Dan Savage actually writes for Seattle’s “The Stranger” (an alternative news weekly), not The Onion. The Onion just carries the column. > > Carry on, carry on. \*\* Drastic just said that it was “from” the Onion, and it probably was from the Onion.