# Hey movie, you have not solved the problem! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 19, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083 "2015-10-19T01:09:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/41 "2015-10-19T18:31:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > This doesn’t make sense. The “problem” of the movie was solved. The immediate threat was averted and Jake’s character goes on to be what he was meant to be. > > The fact that the humans will be back in full force (and presumably can’t nuke them from orbit for one reason or another) is text book sequel set up. Three of them to be precise. It isn’t the main problem, but I wonder about Jake’s surviving human allies. The voiceover tells us that “only a few [humans] were allowed to remain.” By my count, this consists of precisely 2 people: the Indian guy, and that other avatar guy (whose avatar died in the final battle). All of Jake’s other human allies are dead by the end of the movie. OK, these guys get to stay behind, because they’ll be considered traitors if they return to Earth. Then what? Humans can’t breath the air on that planet, so they’ll be stuck wandering around the base, alone. Jake might come to visit occasionally, but he’ll presumaby spend most of his time with the Navi. It sounds like those two guys have nothing but crushing loneliness to look forward to. Like being the last survivors in some kind of post-apocalyptic calamity. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/42 "2015-10-19T18:36:12Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > At the end of _The Wizard of Oz,_ Dorothy still has the problem of dealing with Miss Gulch. I suppose she could throw a bucket of water on the old lady, or just drop a house on her. Many assume she died in the tornado. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/43 "2015-10-19T18:39:53Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > As pointed out on an episode of _The Big Bang Theory_, Indiana Jones wasn’t really needed in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_. The nazis would still have opened the Ark and gotten wiped out by God’s wrath. The Ark is still lost at the end of the movie, only this time lost in bureaucratic limbo. They never would have found it. There’s this little thing called WWII that would have interrupted their dig. ---
**Author:** ![Neo-Calredic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/96bed5/32.png) [@Neo-Calredic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neo-Calredic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/44 "2015-10-19T18:53:50Z")
The Matrix Revolutions is Exhibit A for this issue. The machines aren’t defeated or stripped of power, they just change their minds about eradicating the final remnants of humanity in Zion at the last minute, and everyone starts celebrating that “the war is over.” It’s not even said that the Matrix itself is going to be shut down, or that the machines will stop harvesting humans for energy! :smack: Basically, if the machines decide to come back tomorrow and finish the job, humanity is still completely fucked. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/45 "2015-10-19T19:12:40Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Surviving a crash from space? You mean like the crew of the Challenger? Not the mothership, the dozens of smaller (still huge) ships hovering a few hundred feet over the world’s cities ready to fire. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/46 "2015-10-19T19:36:35Z")
_Precious_: Yeah, she’s liberated from her abusive mother. But she’s a teenage single mother of two, one with downs syndrome. In the ghetto with minimal education. _Ferris Bueller_: Granted, it’s a secondary plot line, but I see no way Cameron’s confrontation with his father ends well. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/47 "2015-10-19T20:50:55Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > That movie is based on the story “Flowers for Algernon”, and based on what happens there, Charley won’t be in an institution for long, because he, like Algernon, is going to die shortly. I never got that early death for Charlie Gordon was likely to be a consequence of the regression after the Nemur-Strauss process failed. Algernon died because he was a mouse. Charlie was just going to leave town and find another village that needed a new idiot. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/48 "2015-10-19T21:19:21Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Charley is not only still retarded, but he’s gone from living a reasonably independent life to lbeing locked up in an institution for the rest of his life. The fact that the Algernon-Gordon affect led to the inevitable death of the first test subject indicates that Charley Gordon’s problems will eventually be solved by terminal neurological deterioration. ☹ ETA: Like **Dendarii Dame** [sed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18786338&postcount=39). ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/49 "2015-10-19T21:56:42Z")
I doubt the OP intended to include tragedies or dystopias in this category. These are stories that, almost by definition, leaves a central problem unsolved, not by oversight but by design. _Colossus: The Forbin Project_ is a dystopia, as is _Soylent Green_. _Paths of Glory_ is a tragedy, as is _Charley_. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/50 "2015-10-19T22:17:11Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > As pointed out on an episode of _The Big Bang Theory_, Indiana Jones wasn’t really needed in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_. The nazis would still have opened the Ark and gotten wiped out by God’s wrath. The Ark is still lost at the end of the movie, only this time lost in bureaucratic limbo. I dunno, that seems like saying you don’t need to retrieve a bunch of plutonium from the terrorist guys because the first group opened the box and became ill. Hitler presumably knew he had a submarine base there and the submarine presumably was in radio contact – someone from Nazi HQ would have come by and eventually more intelligent minds could have figured out not to open the box (according to the movie/Bible, armies were invincible just for having it; touching it was forbidden). If anything, THAT would have met the OP’s request. Having it lost in a warehouse was at least it lost among the good guys. ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/51 "2015-10-19T22:35:13Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Did you ever get to the end of a movie and realize that the central problem of the movie hasn’t really been solved? > > Any more examples? I love _**[Robot Jox](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lktoanpc1VY)**_, and the feel-good ending where Achilles and Alexander reach the realization that they are both “dead men” and decide to halt their aggressions as the Frederic Talgorn-written score rises in the background makes you wanna stand up and cheer. But the Market and the Confederation will still have their differences. We’ll still be in this bleak “one match away from losing Alaska” situation, won’t we? It’s funny… Joe Haldeman, author of _The Forever War_, wrote the screenplay for _Robot Jox_, and he was trying to paint a pretty depressing scene where Achilles is the Market’s last hope. The air is filthy, and the remaining human population is so desperate that the government will give you a bigger apartment to live in if you help repopulate by having more children. Meanwhile, director Stuart Gordon is on the set claiming, “No, no … we just want to make a fun movie where the kids can see the giant robots duke it out!” > [@CalMeacham](#): > > **Return of the Living Dead** – How’d they ever manage to get ALL the zombies into 55 gallon drums? The survivors formed R-S squares and methodically shot the zombies in their heads as they approached. Geez, **Cal** , don’t you know anything? > [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Oh, I forgot a classic. > > **The Iron Giant.** > > Mmmh. Yeah. Superman. Sure. Very nice. Manly tears were shed. Buuuut- ISN’T THERE STILL AN EVIL ALIEN INVASION COMING TO DESTROY EARTH? > [@WordMan](#): > > Is that really how it ends? I would appreciate my ignorance being fought. Oh. OK, I assumed **Sr Siete** was taking a shot at people who _only_ enjoyed the cinematic beauty of this film (it _is_ great, isn’t it?) and had not read the book it was based on, which _does_ actually involve an alien invasion of sorts. You can read the book, or you can get [the Cliff’s Notes version on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Man_%28novel%29). > [@Neo-Calredic](#): > > _(referring to_ **The Matrix Revolutions** \*)\* > > Basically, if the machines decide to come back tomorrow and finish the job, humanity is still completely fucked. Ugh. True, but then again, you could argue that if we were willing to finally make peace that the machines might as well. After all, originally the inhabitants of 01 were willing to live side-by-side with Humanity. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/52 "2015-10-19T22:40:22Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > **The Thing** – The 1982 John Carpenter version. Bill Lancaster’s script is wonderfully faithful to John Campbell’s original story, but I guess the unambiguous, upbeat ending was too Nice for Lancaster and Carpenter, so we’re left with an ambiguous ending that might still leave the Thing alive. In the comic-book sequels, it is. The whole theme of that story and movie is ambiguity and paranoia and that ending fit perfectly. I love this movie BECAUSE of the dark ambiguous ending. Ok, not JUST because. I loved it for a lot of reasons, but the ending is certainly one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/53 "2015-10-19T22:51:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I never got that early death for Charlie Gordon was likely to be a consequence of the regression after the Nemur-Strauss process failed. Algernon died because he was a mouse. Charlie was just going to leave town and find another village that needed a new idiot. It doesn’t matter if he dies or not. The arc of the story is such that he is back to where he started - which makes it a tragedy. The problem of whether they can increase intelligence is solved - the answer is no. Might as well say the problem in Hamlet isn’t resolved since the hero is dead. To give an example from a Broadway musical, in Kinky Boots they to to Milan to a shoe show, and at the last minute they put on a great dance celebrating the shoes. Whether they actually get any orders for the shoes is not mentioned. Kind of a big hole. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/54 "2015-10-19T22:55:35Z")
_Silver Linings Playbook_ - At the end of the movie Pat, Sr. gets out of debt by winning his bet on the dance contest. The problem is that this won’t solve his money problems: since he’s an unreformed gambling addict, he’ll turn right around and get himself in trouble again. His problem isn’t really money - his problem is his addiction. ---
**Author:** ![dwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwyr/32/363_2.png) [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/55 "2015-10-19T22:58:12Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > As pointed out on an episode of _The Big Bang Theory_, Indiana Jones wasn’t really needed in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_. The nazis would still have opened the Ark and gotten wiped out by God’s wrath. The Ark is still lost at the end of the movie, only this time lost in bureaucratic limbo. Indy was there to save Marion. And sire an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/56 "2015-10-19T23:59:05Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Yahbut, the movie doesn’t pretend to solve the problem. In fact, the movie makes a point of showing the fall-out spreading and the other people getting skin irritations and the president coming to visit the site. . … If we go by sequels the Louisville outbreak was not only contained, but successfully covered up. Despite being nigh-indestructible the zombies in the RotLD series are containable. The cause is a chemical, not a biological pathogen or Divine wrath. They don’t produce more 2-4-5 Trioxin in their bodies, electrocution kills them, and cremation works as long as crematorium has the right filter. > [@astro](#): > > Independence Day > > OK lots of the ships crashed to earth. The world is saved! > > But what about the thousands /millions of conquering aliens who survived the crashes? Now they are loose on earth running around with high tech weapons and the ability to control human minds. > > What now? We’ll find out [next year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day:_Resurgence). ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/57 "2015-10-20T01:13:31Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I doubt the OP intended to include tragedies or dystopias in this category. These are stories that, almost by definition, leaves a central problem unsolved, not by oversight but by design. _Colossus: The Forbin Project_ is a dystopia, as is _Soylent Green_. _Paths of Glory_ is a tragedy, as is _Charley_. Yes. Well put. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/58 "2015-10-20T08:03:38Z")
> [@Neo-Calredic](#): > > The Matrix Revolutions is Exhibit A for this issue. The machines aren’t defeated or stripped of power, they just change their minds about eradicating the final remnants of humanity in Zion at the last minute, and everyone starts celebrating that “the war is over.” It’s not even said that the Matrix itself is going to be shut down, or that the machines will stop harvesting humans for energy! :smack: > > Basically, if the machines decide to come back tomorrow and finish the job, humanity is still completely fucked. Ugh. You must’ve missed some stuff. The Machines promised to let the Zionists tell people that they were in the Matrix and to allow them the choice to leave (as revealed when the Architect talks to the Oracle at the end). And the Machines didn’t “change their minds at the last moment,” Neo negotiated a peace with them. He would help them (by fighting Smith) if they would stop attacking his people. The ending has Zion allowed to exist for those who want it, but anyone who would rather stay in the Matrix (which, BTW, is most of humanity) still gets to stay. The only thing I was worried about was creating a bunch of Ciphers. A lot of people would rather not know they had a choice at all. Yet the Machines do not appear to be able to rewrite memories–at most, they can make something seem like a dream. So I do see further conflict as more people find out about the Matrix. But there was a definite win here. No, it’s not impossible it’s all an elaborate lie–if not for us seeing the discussion between the Oracle and the Architect at the end. But we did, so humanity won. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/59 "2015-10-20T08:12:20Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > The fact that the Algernon-Gordon affect led to the inevitable death of the first test subject indicates that Charley Gordon’s problems will eventually be solved by terminal neurological deterioration. ☹ Well, yes, but that’s the point of the book. It’s a tragedy. He becomes an asshole as he gets smarter and smarter, and gets karmic retribution when it gets taken away from him. Man should not be so careless in trying to thwart nature. We are not ready for someone as smart as Charley becomes. The book clearly set up Charley for a fall from the beginning. There was no other way the story could have been carried out. That’s not the same as what the OP is asking for. The OP is “happy ending that isn’t as happy as it seems.” ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083/60 "2015-10-20T14:37:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You must’ve missed some stuff. The Machines promised to let the Zionists tell people that they were in the Matrix and to allow them the choice to leave (as revealed when the Architect talks to the Oracle at the end). And the Machines didn’t “change their minds at the last moment,” Neo negotiated a peace with them. He would help them (by fighting Smith) if they would stop attacking his people. > > The ending has Zion allowed to exist for those who want it, but anyone who would rather stay in the Matrix (which, BTW, is most of humanity) still gets to stay. > > The only thing I was worried about was creating a bunch of Ciphers. A lot of people would rather not know they had a choice at all. Yet the Machines do not appear to be able to rewrite memories–at most, they can make something seem like a dream. > > So I do see further conflict as more people find out about the Matrix. But there was a definite win here. No, it’s not impossible it’s all an elaborate lie–if not for us seeing the discussion between the Oracle and the Architect at the end. But we did, so humanity won. What you describe was the state of circumstances in the Matrix Online MMO… both Zion and the Matrix continue largely unchanged, but there’s no more active warfare between the Mainframe and Zion. Instead, it’s degenerated into a multi-faction cold war. As I understand, the game was considered canonical in extending the movies, so in that sense, all the plot lines were wrapped up by continuing them in the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-movie-you-have-not-solved-the-problem/735083.md?page=4)