# Hey Mr. Moto, you sick fucking ghoul. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008 "2004-07-14T02:39:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/121 "2004-07-15T03:45:36Z")
And yet you seem to know exactly what my motivations are at all times. Strange. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/122 "2004-07-15T04:08:31Z")
Why not ask a veteran who has received a medal if he/she thinks it was merited. I wager that the majority don’t. The ‘hero’ doesn’t see themselves as a hero after they rescue the drowning child - it is just something that you have to do. In the paid work situation, it is more compellingly something that you have to do. In my workplace I wonder why the Equity division won awards for helping equity groups - it’s what they are paid to do. If it was being judged against other Equity divisions, then maybe it is more warranted. So are we judging those soldiers who get medals against the other soldiers - and I think the answer is ‘yes’. Is this fair when most of the time, those soldiers who receive medals were in particular situations through happenstance and were not showing more bravery than any other soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/123 "2004-07-15T05:55:34Z")
This just makes me sick. Moto posts factual information about troops who have gone far beyond what could be expected of anyone in a situation where others are trying to kill them, and some jackasses accuse him of playing politics? That is just absurd. I am as anti-war as 75 percent of the SDMB, but I think it’s worth respecting those who have volunteered to serve the Constitution and our country in what is essentially an act of great selflessness. Our troops don’t get to choose what wars they fight in. I’m sure that if they did, a fair number wouldn’t have gone to Iraq. 882 of these men and women have died so far, and if you don’t want to take a moment of your time to reflect upon a tiny number of servicemen who have kept that number from growing higher, who may well have kept your own neighbors from losing their sons in an idiotic and pointless war, then fine. Go find the nearest street protest so you can dance around with your giant puppets so you can leave the rest of us a moment of peace to think in an apolitical way about the sacrifice of a few absurdly young men, some of whom lost their lives before being awarded a little bit of ribbon and metal. It’s getting to the point at which I really wonder what some Americans would think if they were to read the names on the Vietnam Memorial – does that monument list the names of 58,000 Americans whose sacrifice is worth remembering, or is it viewed as a glorification of 58,000 dupes who some had labeled baby killers? The shit rolls downhill, people, don’t blame the grunts (decorated or not) for the mistakes of the politicians. Keep posting those citations as they become available, Mr. Moto. I’d hope you won’t have to do it much longer, but I’ll read them if I can find them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/124 "2004-07-15T06:09:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [li]For an example of the third, see **Guinastasia** ’s most recent Pitting of **SHAKES**. [/li] Um, I pitted **SHAKES** , not because he favors civil unions over gay marriage, but because he has said that gays are unnatural, their relationships are inferior to those of heterosexuals, and compared homosexuality to cancer, ass pimples, being born without limbs, etc. **Olentzero** , my point is, one man’s hero is another man’s butcher. That and I find it amusing that you defend a man who is responsible for massive bloodshed, but are bitching that someone who, as **Larry Mudd** stated: > [@](#): > > a soldier who led his mates back to safety through hostile terrority in an ordeal that lasted 16 hours. In fucking Afghanistan. is being called a hero. You said killing isn’t something to celebrate. Well, Lenin revelled in shedding innocent blood. Hmmm…dare I smell, hypocrisy? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/125 "2004-07-15T06:11:18Z")
D’oh, that should be, DO I smell, not DARE I. Dammit. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/126 "2004-07-15T12:39:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Spavined Gelding** , in his singularly silly response, mistyped the list. My fault. Sloppy editing. Hurried preview. No secretary. Not silly. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/127 "2004-07-15T12:49:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You said killing isn’t something to celebrate. Well, Lenin revelled in shedding innocent blood. _Please_ provide direct quotes from the man himself on the subject, including volume and page numbers in any edition of the Complete Works, to back this claim up. I’m not talking about numbers, which was the subject of a sizeable debate here about a year or so ago, but actual _quotes_ from Lenin saying that whatever killing he knew about was good and glorious and should be celebrated. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/128 "2004-07-15T12:51:33Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > And yet you seem to know exactly what my motivations are at all times. Strange. As has been said earlier, you’re openly conservative, pro-Bush, and pro-war. It’s not all that hard to guess. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/129 "2004-07-15T13:11:45Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > _Please_ provide direct quotes from the man himself on the subject… Holy fuck, an honest to God (ha) _Lenin_ defender?!? Amazing. We just need a Mao defender and a Hitler defender, and we can get a set of ‘Fucking Idiot Trading Cards’ going. Talk about being able to predict motives: I predict that if your kind ever gain power anywhere in the world, there will be a bloodbath, just like every other fucking time in history Marxists took power anywhere in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/130 "2004-07-15T13:20:23Z")
Where the hell have _you_ been, **Brutus**?! **Sam Stone** did a Pit thread jus’ fer li’l’ ol’ me on that very subject here in the Pit a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/131 "2004-07-15T13:25:42Z")
Don’t you find it overwhelmingly hypicritical to be (purportedly) so concerned about the loss of life, yet follow an ideology that claimed more lives through democide than any other in history? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/132 "2004-07-15T13:48:05Z")
Oh yeah, here we go again. From a debate about the intent of **Mr. Moto** ’s threads to “How many ways can we pick out the perceived hypocrisy in **Olentzero** ’s political beliefs?” from people with more of an axe to grind rather than interest in real debate. I’m not riding this train to Wrecksville. **Brutus** , I’ve been in numerous threads about the nature of the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin, threads about the number of people killed between 1917 and 1938, and how the figures are _still_ under dispute, threads about so-called “communism” in Eastern Europe, China, Korea, and Cuba - and so on and so forth. They’re there for the careful and patient researcher. **Guinastasia** , thanks for nothing. What you’ve just pulled here is a prime example of “Red-baiting” and I do _not_ appreciate it. I had, for the time I’ve known you, thought you were better than this even though our opinions widely differ, and I am profoundly disappointed. Seriously, stay the fuck out of my threads if you’ve got nothing better to contribute than that. As soon as I’ve posted this, I’m requesting the thread be locked. Thanks to all, including **Mr. Moto** , who kept this relatively sane even though it’s a Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/133 "2004-07-15T13:50:31Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > _Please_ provide direct quotes from the man himself on the subject, including volume and page numbers in any edition of the Complete Works, to back this claim up. I’m not talking about numbers, which was the subject of a sizeable debate here about a year or so ago, but actual _quotes_ from Lenin saying that whatever killing he knew about was good and glorious and should be celebrated. Ok, I’ll bite, even if I think you’re an idiot. > [@Lenin](#): > > “real nation-wide terror, which reinvigorates the country and through which the great French Revolution achieved glory.” Collected Works, 4th Russian Edition, v. 13, p. 435 > [@Lenin](#): > > Not a single revolutionary government can dispense with the death penalty for the exploiters Ibid., v. 25, p. 316. > [@lenin](#): > > Speculators will be shot: we can achieve nothing unless we use terror.” Ibid > [@Lenin](#): > > apply mass terror immediately, to execute and exterminate hundreds of prostitutes, drunken soldiers, former officers, etc Ibid p.286 Need more? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/134 "2004-07-15T13:53:12Z")
I’ll work with that in another thread after I’ve found the works you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/135 "2004-07-15T13:58:45Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > I’ll work with that in another thread after I’ve found the works you’re talking about. :rolleyes: Maybe they’re in your ass, along with your head. You are a fucking clown. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/136 "2004-07-15T14:44:49Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Belief in god? My impression is still that most Dopers have a religious faith of some flavour – the contempt seems to be reserved for ignorant zealots. I believe **Coldfire** ’s “What Religion Are You?” thread found that the largest plurality of respondents were atheist or agnostic, more than any other single religious group. Most Dopers are American; most Americans self-identify as Christian. Atheists/agnostics are very much over-represented on the Dope as compared to their percentage of the general American public. Add to that all the references to Invisible Pink Unicorns, the general lumping together of **any** religious believer with fundamentalists, and the general sneering, and you start getting pretty close. FWIW, “nearly unanimous” was an over-statement. I was reacting to **Liberal** ’s post, which I quoted. I believe SDMB is heavily weighted towards the left, and many of those on the left react as I described. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Um, I pitted SHAKES, not because he favors civil unions over gay marriage, but because he has said that gays are unnatural, their relationships are inferior to those of heterosexuals, and compared homosexuality to cancer, ass pimples, being born without limbs, etc. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > You give us that you “support civil unions, just not marriage.” Well that’s bullshit. That’s like saying that blacks and whites in the South prior to the Civil Rights Act were equal because they both had water fountains. Sounds to me like you Pitted him, at least in part, for exactly the reason I stated. [QUOTE=mic84] > [@Shodan](#): > > [ul][li]For examples of the first, see any thread on religion from **rjung**.[/li][li]For examples of the second, see any thread in GD.[/li][li]For an example of the third, see **Guinastasia** ’s most recent Pitting of **SHAKES**. [/li][li]For the last, it is the subject of the OP.[/ul][/li] > You missed one > > [ul][li]If you’re an idiot who believes in God, a moron who voted for Bush, etc., etc., you’re a martyr for your cause. For examples, check out any second post by **Shodan** , **Libertarian** , **Starving Artist** , or **milroyj** [/li][/ul] [ul][li]There is no Doper named **Libertarian** on the SDMB[/li][li]The poster formerly known as such is not a Bush supporter[/li][li]Learn to read, you fucking moron[/ul][/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/137 "2004-07-15T15:02:13Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > … just like every other fucking time in history Marxists took power anywhere in the world. Indeed. Just like those bloodthirsty Sandanistas. Crafty devils, held an election, lost to a center-right coalition, and in a cunning display of misdirection, turned over the government to the victors, just to embarass **Brutus**. Part of the ongoing conspiracy to subvert such paragons of egalitarian democracy as Trujillo, Batista, Pinochet, Uguarte… You don’t pull your head out pretty soon, **Brutus** , we’re going to have to drill a breathing tube into your navel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/138 "2004-07-15T15:13:06Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > Oh yeah, here we go again. From a debate about the intent of **Mr. Moto** ’s threads to “How many ways can we pick out the perceived hypocrisy in **Olentzero** ’s political beliefs?” from people with more of an axe to grind rather than interest in real debate. I’m not riding this train to Wrecksville. Actually, what I think people are trying to do is point out the hypocrisy in your own belief that **Mr.Moto** is a ghoul for honoring the type of people that you yourself honor. It was asked if the people of past wars never should have gotten their medals based on their performance, because by your rules they never should have. But you said you had no problem with them having their medals. It was asked if you supported and admired Lenin for his accomplishments, even though they were achieved through bloodshed and terror, and you said that you admire Lenin regardless. Now, since this whole entire thread is based on you not believing killers should be hero’s, but you yourself think one is a hero, I think you should either relent, and tell **Mr.Moto** and the rest of us that you can see where you were wrong, or you should maybe rethink your beliefs about the founders of Socialism. You really don’t have a choice at this point if you want your intelligent debate to go any further. That’s one of the ways intelligent debate works. You present a point of view you don’t understand, others point out that perhaps you _do_ understand it by bringing up things you do believe. They then make a parallel so you can see that in fact you both believe in the same thing, just in different circumstances. I really don’t think there should be any more post to this thread until you do one of the two things I mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/139 "2004-07-15T16:12:40Z")
> [@Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > Maybe they’re in your ass, along with your head. OK, shithead, let me spell it out for you. I have the Complete Works sitting on my bookshelves at home, and my intent is to look up the pages referenced and read the articles/books/whatever in which the lines appeared so as to give a fuller treatment of them later in whatever thread I create on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008/140 "2004-07-15T16:31:20Z")
Red-baiting? Jesus Christ, this is 2004, not 1954!!! I’ll try and find some Lenin quotes, if you insist, although I do not have access to the Complete Works at the moment. However, I DO have some “Selected Works” from one of my old college course books. (See, I KNEW these things would come in handy someday!) I’ll see what I can find. **Shodan** , please. That was but a SMALL part of my argument. If you’ll read the thread, you’ll see that it’s not so much his support for civil unions-but his reasoning behind it. My point was that he was using “But I support civil unions!” as an excuse, because he didn’t want to be called a bigot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-mr-moto-you-sick-fucking-ghoul/255008.md?page=8)