# Hey, Progressives and Liberals, Let's Pick Out A State To Take Over, Like Mississippi!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 4, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318 "2013-02-04T16:51:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/41 "2013-02-05T05:30:38Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> We only want to force ourselves on people when it is in other people’s best interest. We are like a rapist with a conscience.
Of course you are the ones who determine when it’s in their best interest to be raped.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/42 "2013-02-05T05:34:58Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> I lived on the Gulf Coast of Mississippi when I was a teenager. WONDERFUL PLACE, full of snakes, lizards, frogs and fish. The climate and land are beautiful, it just needs some progressiving up.
:dubious: Can’t be no improvement over Florida. We have snakes, lizards, frogs, fish, deer, raccoons, possums, armadilloes, all kinds of pretty tropical and subtropical birds, and **gators!** (We used to have bears and panthers, too. ☹ But we’ve still got [skunk apes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunk_ape)! :))
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/43 "2013-02-05T05:39:12Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> This entire concept doesn’t jibe with progressivism/left liberalism. Progressives want to assert their way of life onto others using government force.
:dubious: Be careful, there; that sounds suspiciously like the sort of argument that might have been and was brought against the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. “States’ rights,” “local autonomy,” “We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody,” “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice,” and similar shameful false-libertarian bullshit. The “rapists” were all on **that** side, not the liberals’ side.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/44 "2013-02-05T05:45:28Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Vermont is the obvious choice for progressives considering 1) it elected Bernie Sanders to the Senate, 2) is fairly small and lightly populated, 3) is culturally/socially/politically homogeneous thus not forcing to progressives to build unwiedly political coalitions, and 4) instituted single payer health care.
Actually, that would make it **pointless** for progressives to try to take over Vermont; coals to Newcastle.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/45 "2013-02-05T05:50:01Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> We only want to force ourselves on people when it is in other people’s best interest. We are like a rapist with a conscience.
And that attitude, too, is far more often to be found on the RW side; see [“The White Man’s Burden”](http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/world_civ/worldcivreader/world_civ_reader_2/kipling.html) and, better still and also by Kipling, [“A Song of the White Men.”](http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/song_of_white_men.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Now, this is the cup the White Men drink
> When they go to right a wrong,
> And that is the cup of the old world’s hate–
> Cruel and strained and strong.
> We have drunk that cup–and a bitter, bitter cup–
> And tossed the dregs away.
> But well for the world when the White Men drink
> To the dawn of the White Man’s day!
>
> Now, this is the road that the White Men tread
> When they go to clean a land–
> Iron underfoot and levin overhead
> And the deep on either hand.
> We have trod that road–and a wet and windy road–
> Our chosen star for guide.
> Oh, well for the world when the White Men tread
> Their highway side by side!
>
> Now, this is the faith that the White Men hold–
> When they build their homes afar–
> “Freedom for ourselves and freedom for our sons
> And, failing freedom, War.”
> We have proved our faith–bear witness to our faith,
> Dear souls of freemen slain!
> Oh, well for the world when the White Men join
> To prove their faith again!
(All long out-of-copyright, Mods.)
IOW, “If you can’t do anything about it, lie back and enjoy it.”
---
### Author:  [@26charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/26charlie)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/46 "2013-02-05T09:18:52Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> Fun concept. It’s occurred to me with all the marijuana legalization and anti-abortion initiatives, that what makes a real difference in living conditions might just be the state you live in, rather than the nation you live in. Perhaps if liberals and progressives were to move to a state en masse we could swing enough political power to take over the state legislature and run things our way. A good, progressive, well funded public school system, pot legalized, same sex marriage legalized, universal health care, all sorts of good things.
Why not just move to states that have already progressed to the ideals mentioned, so they can supplement the majority enough to achieve even better things.
Sure beats moving to 'ssippi and being eaten by mosquitos while discovering nobody wants to follow you to that utopia because the place has a reputation for resisting changes (Beliefs have a better retention rate through the generations). Sure, you could try, but you’ll suffer the whole time when you could be having good times elsewhere.
---
### Author:  [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/47 "2013-02-05T09:47:27Z")
There aren’t any progressives in America, there are a few relatively sane people but there aren’t many progressives in comparison to psycho right wingers. Even this board is only left wing in the eyes of crazy righties.
---
### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/48 "2013-02-05T09:51:27Z")
> [@Jas09](#):
>
> Either way it’s at least somewhat nuts (no matter who is proposing it) to model our educational system on the one from a country with a population of only 5.4 million that is also one of the most homogenous countries around.
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> As for the Finnish model, I think there is something to be said about not ignoring the homogeneity of their population
Finland isn’t _completely_ homogeneous. They have sizeable Swedish and fast-growing Russian and Estonian minorities.
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### Author:  [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/49 "2013-02-05T11:04:17Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> Of course you are the ones who determine when it’s in their best interest to be raped.
They know what’s best for everyone, didntcha know? Especially for the yokels in the south. Damn I wish I was as smart but I wasn’t raised ‘round no book larnin’.
You already have your own state, OP, it’s called California.
Also “New England” and Illinois.
Kindly keep running those states into the ground and stay out of the south.
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### Author:  [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/50 "2013-02-05T11:10:20Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#):
>
> While I’m all for buying off people to get what one wants out of them
Wow, an honest liberal!
> [@](#):
>
> what are you going to offer to poor, conservative people in exchange for them switching sides on their deep-rooted, socially reinforced religious beliefs about abortion, homosexuality, etc.? A general promise of “better stuff for you poor folks” is not going to cut it.
It will never cut it because not everyone’s values are for sale. Makes it a lot harder for liberals to create an underclass and control with vote buying programs when they believe in anything more important than their own self-interest.
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### Author:  [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/51 "2013-02-05T13:53:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> This entire concept doesn’t jibe with progressivism/left liberalism. Progressives want to assert their way of life onto others using government force.
Gee, like banning abortion and contraception and homosexuality?
---
### Author:  [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/52 "2013-02-05T13:55:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> Of course you are the ones who determine when it’s in their best interest to be raped.
Kinda ironic discussion after the whole Virginia ultrasound-before-abortion debacle, huh?
What this thread actually demonstrates is that political labels are utterly stupid.
How about we simply agree on principles, instead of choosing “teams” and defending whatever they do? You value freedom of the individual? Me too. So tell those people on your side of the aisle to get out of people’s sex lives, for starters.
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### Author:  [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/53 "2013-02-05T14:05:35Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#):
>
> Wow, an honest liberal!
Nope, not a liberal.
It is hardly an earth-shaking revelation that a big part of politicians’ jobs is getting the goodies for their constituents. It occurs at all levels of government and across the conservative/liberal spectrum. They cover this stuff in Poli Sci 101.
> [@PandaBear77](#):
>
> It will never cut it because not everyone’s values are for sale..
Agreed, thank you for providing my point for me. Where some people an inevitable, salutory evolution of perspective as a result of improved conditions, others see an evil attempt to buy off citizens and corrupt community morals through outside interference.
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### Author:  [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/54 "2013-02-05T14:36:19Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#):
>
> It will never cut it because not everyone’s values are for sale. Makes it a lot harder for liberals to create an underclass and control with vote buying programs when they believe in anything more important than their own self-interest.
Hmmm.
WASHINGTON – Although the overall amount of politically directed “pork” spending dropped this fiscal year, Alabama and Mississippi both moved up in state-by-state rankings, a watchdog group’s annual tally shows.
On a per-capita basis, Mississippi placed sixth nationally, up from ninth last year, according to the “Pig Book” released Wednesday by Citizens Against Government Waste.
> **[Alabama, Mississippi again collect disproportionate amounts of federal pork](https://www.al.com/live/2010/04/alabama_mississippi_again_coll.html)**
>
> WASHINGTON -- Although the overall amount of politically directed "pork" spending dropped this fiscal year, Alabama and Mississippi both moved up in state-by-state rankings, a watchdog group's annual tally shows.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/55 "2013-02-05T15:40:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> :dubious: Can’t be no improvement over Florida. We have snakes, lizards, frogs, fish, deer, raccoons, possums, armadilloes, all kinds of pretty tropical and subtropical birds, and **gators!** (We used to have bears and panthers, too. ☹ But we’ve still got [skunk apes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunk_ape)! :))
Florida would be a GREAT place to move to, that’s why so many people have done so, unfortunately, a whole lot of them are elderly and Republican. I think the numbers there would be difficult to achieve.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/56 "2013-02-05T15:44:46Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#):
>
> They know what’s best for everyone, didntcha know? Especially for the yokels in the south. Damn I wish I was as smart but I wasn’t raised ‘round no book larnin’.
> You already have your own state, OP, it’s called California.
>
> Also “New England” and Illinois.
>
> Kindly keep running those states into the ground and stay out of the south.
Kindly refund the subsidies the red states are getting from the federal government, and those other so-called spendthrift states would no longer be running into the ground. Can’t say the same for the red states, though.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/57 "2013-02-05T16:02:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Vermont is the obvious choice for progressives considering 1) it elected Bernie Sanders to the Senate, 2) is fairly small and lightly populated, 3) is culturally/socially/politically homogeneous thus not forcing to progressives to build unwiedly political coalitions, and 4) instituted single payer health care.
A) Vermont is already a progressive state, and B) it’s got a very cold climate. People like to ski there, not live there.
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/58 "2013-02-05T16:17:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> Fun concept. It’s occurred to me with all the marijuana legalization and anti-abortion initiatives, that what makes a real difference in living conditions might just be the state you live in, rather than the nation you live in. Perhaps if liberals and progressives were to move to a state en masse we could swing enough political power to take over the state legislature and run things our way. A good, progressive, well funded public school system, pot legalized, same sex marriage legalized, universal health care, all sorts of good things.
Laying aside the issues that others have mentioned, I have to wonder whether you understand government in America at all. Of the things you want to implement, most can’t be implemented at the state level because the federal government won’t allow it. Some small changes, such as issuing marriage certificates to gay couples, could be made without difficulty. But meaningful changes are off the table without major changes to the federal government. For instance:
[ul]
[li]A well-funded progressive public school system. America’s public schools are just about the most well-funded in world history, so you can’t complain there, but changing their structure to imitate Finland’s can’t happen. The No Child Left Behind Act put the federal government in charge of many administrative decisions at schools and required high-stakes testing. President Obama has continued the trend by creating a national standardized curriculum; it’s not mandatory yet, but it soon will be. It’s against federal law for a state to make its education system Finnish.[/li][li]Marijuana. The Obama Administration continues to raid and arrest people distributing pot for medical purposes, even in states that have voted for legalization.[/li][li]Health care. The numerous financial requirements surrounding Medicare, Medicaid, and the PPACA would make it extremely difficult to create a separate state single-payer system from scratch.[/li][li]Environmental legislation. States wishing to push strong environmental regulations often get blocked by the federal government. For instance, about 10 years ago California and New York tried requiring that car companies sell zero-emissions cars in those states. Lobbyists for the car and oil companies used their influence in Washington to block it.[/li][li]Agriculture. The flood of farm subsidies from Washington overwhelms any serious attempt to change policy at the state level.[/li][/ul]
Bottom line: you’ll have to clear the progressives and liberals out of the federal government before you can use them to take over any state government.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/59 "2013-02-05T16:24:43Z")
> [@26charlie](#):
>
> Why not just move to states that have already progressed to the ideals mentioned, so they can supplement the majority enough to achieve even better things.
Hauling coals to Newcastle. Mississippi needs help!
> [@](#):
>
> Sure beats moving to 'ssippi and being eaten by mosquitos while discovering nobody wants to follow you to that utopia because the place has a reputation for resisting changes (Beliefs have a better retention rate through the generations). Sure, you could try, but you’ll suffer the whole time when you could be having good times elsewhere.
Yeah, cause no other state has mosquitos! (Who are you kidding? That’s the best you can do?) And the whole idea is to get people that we won’t NEED to persuade a lot of the locals to come over to the progressive side.
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/60 "2013-02-05T16:26:49Z")
> [@rogerbox](#):
>
> There aren’t any progressives in America, there are a few relatively sane people but there aren’t many progressives in comparison to psycho right wingers. Even this board is only left wing in the eyes of crazy righties.
America has few people who self identify as progressives, but at the same time, they have MANY progressive beliefs. That’s kind of one of the hidden elements of my plan. Ideologues are not the measure by which you should judge beliefs among the masses.
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