# Hey, Progressives and Liberals, Let's Pick Out A State To Take Over, Like Mississippi!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 4, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318 "2013-02-04T16:51:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@lucaspa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucaspa)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/121 "2013-02-19T03:10:21Z")
> [@emacknight](#):
>
> But if given the opportunity, do you believe that degenerates would not try to score some free government money?
There are always people who will scam a system. That’s not the point. Of course there will be some of that, just like there is always some waste in the military. As long as that waste is a small percentage and most of the money is getting to people who need it, you ignore the waste.
[/quote]
I’m also curious to know if people move within the US to places that have better social services. Like you said, there are states with better social safety nets, what stops people from moving there?
[/QUOTE]
Their roots where they are: family, friends, comfort zone, and the cost of moving. There have been studies looking at this, and they have concluded that the number of poor people who move to states to collect social service is VERY tiny.
Remember, most of the people on welfare are newly divorced mothers with children. Often the children are in school, and the difference in the amount of the social net is not going to pay for the cost of the move, the problem with moving the kids from their schools, and the emotional cost of losing the adult’s support group.
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### Author:  [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/122 "2013-02-19T15:13:42Z")
> [@lucaspa](#):
>
> There are always people who will scam a system. That’s not the point. Of course there will be some of that, just like there is always some waste in the military. As long as that waste is a small percentage and most of the money is getting to people who need it, you ignore the waste.
Actually, that is exactly the point. And I simply asked if **Evil Captor** plans to welcome the scammers with open arms (or as you said ignore them).
And it’s true that a person’s roots and the cost of moving often prevent people from relocating. But I asked about people on the other side of the river, not the other side of the country. People who may very well have roots in Mississippi and may have sufficient resources to pull their home down the street and across state lines.
It’s fine if your plan is to ignore the problem, or pretend it’s not a problem, it’s exactly what I expect. It’s entirely possible that the prospect of free social services won’t be enough to get people to go to Mississippi.
But keep in mind that Canada doesn’t allow Americans to cross the border and get free health care. If we did, the number of people moving to get services would quickly exceed the number of people adding to the tax base and the system would go bankrupt.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/123 "2013-02-19T15:21:18Z")
> [@emacknight](#):
>
> But keep in mind that Canada doesn’t allow Americans to cross the border and get free health care. If we did, the number of people moving to get services would quickly exceed the number of people adding to the tax base and the system would go bankrupt.
What makes you think the number moving to get services would exceed the number adding to the tax base? They spend money while they’re there, after all, they pay sales tax and indirectly pay property tax.
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### Author:  [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/124 "2013-02-19T15:39:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> What makes you think the number moving to get services would exceed the number adding to the tax base?
My understanding of human nature. I’ve lived in a number of locations on the border between two states, two provinces, or two countries. And I’ve watched how people alter their behaviour to gain a favourable tax advantage.
Consider the number of people willing to drive to a no-sales-tax state just to save a few bucks. If any state has a slightly lower sales tax than New Mississippi what’s to stop people from living in MS where they get lots of social services, and shopping where the taxes are lower?
Canada has struggled for years with lost revenue to cross border shopping, so there are limits to the amount of duty free goods that can be brought back. For example the limit is $200 for trips shorter than 24 hours. Will New Mississippi have those?
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> They spend money while they’re there, after all, they pay sales tax and indirectly pay property tax.
So you expect the amount they pay in sales and property taxes to match or exceed the amount they’ll get in social services? For a person making less than $20k a year, what do you expect their tax liability to be?
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/125 "2013-02-19T15:54:10Z")
As for scammers moving into Mississippi to collect welfare … I do not anticipate it becoming a huge problem. Some will move no doubt, especially those with friends/relatives either on the border or right in Mississippi, but I dont think the numbers will be huge.
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### Author:  [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/126 "2013-02-19T15:58:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> As for scammers moving into Mississippi to collect welfare … I do not anticipate it becoming a huge problem. Some will move no doubt, especially those with friends/relatives either on the border or right in Mississippi, but I dont think the numbers will be huge.
Thanks, that’s all I needed to know. I look forward to retiring in your wonderful new land, how soon can you get this up and running?
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/127 "2013-02-19T16:12:55Z")
> [@emacknight](#):
>
> Thanks, that’s all I needed to know. I look forward to retiring in your wonderful new land, how soon can you get this up and running?
All I need is about half a million progressives, well organized and willing to move to Mississippi with their families.
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### Author:  [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/128 "2013-02-19T17:39:50Z")
> [@emacknight](#):
>
> Read again, I did not characterize people on welfare as degenerates. I object to your insinuation that I did.
I think I misunderstood you, I apologize.
> [@](#):
>
> But if given the opportunity, do you believe that degenerates would not try to score some free government money? You do realize I listed the states bordering Mississippi right?
There is no such thing as “free government money” in the USA, do you realize that? There are food stamps, section 8, etc but no one just gives you a check just because you declare yourself on the dole.
> [@](#):
>
> I’m also curious to know if people move within the US to places that have better social services. Like you said, there are states with better social safety nets, what stops people from moving there?
Are you talking only about people in bordering states? I don’t think this even happens already, it took Hurricane Katrina for some of the poorest people in Louisiana to move from some horrible ghettos to much nicer neighborhoods in bordering states, and from what I have heard they hated it and wanted to go home ASAP.
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### Author:  [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/129 "2013-02-19T17:40:06Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> All I need is about half a million progressives, well organized and willing to move to Mississippi with their families.
No income requirement?
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/130 "2013-02-19T19:28:41Z")
> [@emacknight](#):
>
> No income requirement?
Not unless the State of Mississippi has income requirements for voting, something I imagine would be difficult for states under the aegis of the Voting Rights Act to manage.
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### Author:  [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/131 "2013-02-19T20:02:07Z")
Sweet, count me in. Warm weather, UHC, negative income tax, I’m there. And I’m pretty sure I can find the rest of the half million you need.
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### Author:  [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/132 "2013-02-19T20:07:25Z")
> [@emacknight](#):
>
> Sweet, count me in. Warm weather, UHC, negative income tax, I’m there. And I’m pretty sure I can find the rest of the half million you need.
Good luck implementing effective UHC or a negative income tax at the state level. It’s just not feasible.
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### Author:  [@basset\_hound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/basset_hound)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/133 "2013-02-20T02:41:57Z")
My, all these wealthy progressives coming down south to teach all of us ignorant folks about the glories of the American liberal political system. Why, we’re all so poor and illiterate that the majority of us just can’t seem to understand that we live in hellholes merely a few borders and/or votes away from Nirvana.
Why don’t you take the opposite approach? Spend some cash to show us red state resident rednecks what we’re missing by not living in one of the fancified progressive havens. Why not invite about 200,000 Gump-types to experience the wonders of American liberalism in a fine blue-state? Once the realization of what we’ve been missing penetrates our thick skulls, we’ll all leave the Jethro lifestyle behind as we return home, ready to spread the gospel of progressive thought. All our problems will be over! We may be bumpkins now, unknowlingly ruled by a mysterious (to us rhubarbs) 1%, but once set straight by some uppity college fellers, we’ll head toward glory. We be poor trash now, but with your plan, tomorrow is another day!
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### Author:  [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/134 "2013-02-20T03:36:33Z")
> [@basset\_hound](#):
>
> Why don’t you take the opposite approach? Spend some cash to show us red state resident rednecks what we’re missing by not living in one of the fancified progressive havens.
Are you not aware us progressives already subsidize your southern states and you turn around and elect republicans who decry the same social safety nets we pay for you down in the south? Because we’re already spending tons of cash on you red staters.
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### Author:  [@basset\_hound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/basset_hound)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/135 "2013-02-20T04:01:00Z")
Quit sending the money down here. That’ll teach us. Maybe the GOP and their social “conservative” supporters will be forced to put up or shut up. I’m tired of the hypocrisy. I don’t need your safety nets. Please invite those who do into your wonderland. Imagine the great educational system and massive job creation with all that extra cash you’ll have. Everyone will be happy.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/136 "2013-02-20T04:31:58Z")
> [@basset\_hound](#):
>
> Quit sending the money down here. That’ll teach us. Maybe the GOP and their social “conservative” supporters will be forced to put up or shut up. I’m tired of the hypocrisy. I don’t need your safety nets. Please invite those who do into your wonderland. Imagine the great educational system and massive job creation with all that extra cash you’ll have. Everyone will be happy.
Dude. I’m from Georgia. On both sides of my family for generations.
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### Author:  [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/137 "2013-02-20T05:06:27Z")
> [@basset\_hound](#):
>
> Quit sending the money down here. That’ll teach us. Maybe the GOP and their social “conservative” supporters will be forced to put up or shut up. I’m tired of the hypocrisy. I don’t need your safety nets. Please invite those who do into your wonderland. Imagine the great educational system and massive job creation with all that extra cash you’ll have. Everyone will be happy.
I’m amused. Tell me more.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2013, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/138 "2013-02-20T07:11:18Z")
> [@basset\_hound](#):
>
> Quit sending the money down here. That’ll teach us.
Truer than you know.
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### Author:  [@basset\_hound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/basset_hound)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/139 "2013-02-20T11:27:43Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> Dude. I’m from Georgia. On both sides of my family for generations.
I read that in your earlier posts. I still don’t think your plan would work. My family is also from the Deep South – Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, and South Carolina. I have family in all of those states. I don’t believe I ever denied your ancestry.
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### Author:  [@basset\_hound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/basset_hound)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-progressives-and-liberals-lets-pick-out-a-state-to-take-over-like-mississippi/649318/140 "2013-02-20T11:29:33Z")
> [@rogerbox](#):
>
> I’m amused. Tell me more.
What would you like to know? I’m off to work or I’d spend more time posting right now. I’ll be happy to elaborate a bit this evening.
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