# Hey rjung... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 19, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544 "2004-08-19T13:37:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/61 "2004-08-20T06:38:57Z")
**rjung,** I still can’t think of a thread you’ve started that offered a fool-proof plan for elections. Can you link to the thread you started on that subject? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/62 "2004-08-20T06:46:42Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > After reading the (lame-ass) OP, I can only conclude that **Bruce\_Daddy** doesn’t believe in democracy, and suggest he enroll in a civics class or three. If that is the only conclusion you can come to, you need to have that head-wound reexamined. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/63 "2004-08-20T07:26:56Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > **rjung,** I still can’t think of a thread you’ve started that offered a fool-proof plan for elections. I wasn’t aware I was obligated to provide one. But give me the grant and I’ll bang out a preliminary requirements proposal for ya. > [@Brutus](#): > > If that is the only conclusion you can come to, you need to have that head-wound reexamined. I never know how I should respond when **Brutus** attacks – it’s like being assaulted by damp tissue paper. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/64 "2004-08-20T07:42:39Z")
**Airman** , I don’t even address the specific subject of Diebold. What matters to me is that there be a reliable paper trail that will allow for the recounts that are surely to come in close states no matter who wins. Considering the state of the nation today, the decisions that were contested by both parties in 2000, the 5-4 decision of the SCOTUS regarding that election, it would behoove us to take every step possible in every state to insure a fair and certifiable election. I do not understand why these concerns are not being addressed more “out there.” That is probably one of the reasons that the issue is brought up more and more often _in here._ I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you and other fair-minded people of all parties would cry _foul_ at _any_ attempt at rigging. I believe that **rjung** is also one of those fair-minded people; he has a specific concern about Diebold’s role based on what has been said and done in the past. That doesn’t mean that he would turn a blind eye if there were evidence that a Democrat with similar power and similar claims and a similar record was in a position to rig an election. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/65 "2004-08-20T07:50:21Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I wasn’t aware I was obligated to provide one. But give me the grant and I’ll bang out a preliminary requirements proposal for ya. I agree with almost nothing you post. Hell, if you told me the sky was blue, I’d go outside to confirm it. But, in fairness, I’ve tried to see things from your point of view. I have. But this response shows you’re just using the Diebold thing as a reason to spew invective. If you feel so strongly about Diebold being evil and unfair, I insist you tell us a better way of doing things. So far, every system I’ve seen and heard about has flaws. But you seem to think Diebold is somehow inherently evil and unfair. So what is the best way? You seem such an expert on voting systems, how would you propose we conduct elections? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/66 "2004-08-20T11:35:45Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > So what is the best way? You seem such an expert on voting systems, how would you propose we conduct elections? No expert here, but conducting them fairly would appear to be a good start. As in not having known Republican boosters in charge of computerized voting systems that can be easily hacked. Would that irk you terribly? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/67 "2004-08-20T12:12:35Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > No expert here, but conducting them fairly would appear to be a good start. As in not having known Republican boosters in charge of computerized voting systems that can be easily hacked. > > Would that irk you terribly? Did you even read the post from me you quoted? Maybe you can answer it in another post, because this one didn’t do it. It’s little more than a post-count booster. How would you propose we hold a fair election? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/68 "2004-08-20T12:34:12Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > How would you propose we hold a fair election? :dubious: What have we been using before? Are you saying we never had a fair election till these new gizmos came out? ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/69 "2004-08-20T12:44:02Z")
Diebold, Diebold. Better that people know about it than not, it’s an important topic and worthy. From my perspective, if you don’t see anything wrong with the Diebold system, it’s simply because you A) really want Bush to get elected but B) can’t be bothered with the details of whether or not that happens legally and fairly. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/70 "2004-08-20T12:48:53Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > After reading the (lame-ass) OP, I can only conclude that **Bruce\_Daddy** doesn’t believe in democracy, and suggest he enroll in a civics class or three. > [@the first google.com hit for 'strawman'](#): > > The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person’s actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. **Bruce** : rjung, STFU about Diebold. Start a thread about it, quit the driveby shit. **rjung** : Why do you hate democracy? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/71 "2004-08-20T15:08:59Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > What have we been using before? Are you saying we never had a fair election till these new gizmos came out? Right on. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/72 "2004-08-20T15:15:11Z")
Any comment about my points, **rjung**? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/73 "2004-08-20T16:54:55Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > \ > > Geez, you call _that_ a pitting? I’ve had stronger stuff than that for lunch at 7-11. > > **Ahem** > > The fundamental need for fair and impartial elections _should_ be a major obsession for everyone who believes in the idea of an open and democratic society, regardless of where they stand on the issues and candidates. > > After reading the (lame-ass) OP, I can only conclude that **Bruce\_Daddy** doesn’t believe in democracy, and suggest he enroll in a civics class or three. You’ve got to be kidding me- when confronted with evidence that you’re continually posting the same shit over and over and over to different threads, your response is to claim that the person who pointed it out must “not believe in democracy”- :rolleyes: . This has little to do with Diebold itself and everything to do with net etiquette. We’re well aware of your feelings on this subject and, unless you have anything new or susbstantial to say, **STFU**. I don’t like the Diebold machines but you don’t see me shitting all over a dozen different threads because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/74 "2004-08-20T17:46:43Z")
Will you people _please_ stop picking on **rjung** and his Diebold obsession? At least it’s a break from his maniacal “The right-wing media/talk radio are penetrating my tinfoil hat” obsession, which has resulted in endless posts and drivebys, [Over](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270233) [and over](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269163) [and over](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=265238) [until](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261861) [the mind reels](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=254845) [and the stomach rebels.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=246742) [It just](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=262226) [never ends.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=259171) [Gaack.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=254178) Ad nauseum. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/75 "2004-08-20T17:50:18Z")
If being concerned about the fairness and accuracy of our nation’s elections is a crime, then let me be found guilty, halleujah! > [@Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > Bruce: rjung, STFU about Diebold. Start a thread about it, quit the driveby shit. I _have_ started threads on the topic. And you’ll doubtlesssly continue to bitch about those, too. > [@Governor Quinn](#): > > Any comment about my points, rjung? Not really. I agree the numbers are inconclusive, which is why I don’t make much of a fuss about them nowadays. I still find the correlation between “surprise upsets” and the use of electronic voting machines to be suspicious, however. > [@Mojo](#): > > I don’t like the Diebold machines but you don’t see me shitting all over a dozen different threads because of it. Pardon me for being more concerned about the issue than you, then. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/76 "2004-08-20T18:07:46Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Will you people _please_ stop picking on **rjung** and his Diebold obsession? > At least it’s a break from his maniacal “The right-wing media/talk radio are penetrating my tinfoil hat” obsession, which has resulted in endless posts and drivebys, > > [Over](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270233) > > [and over](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269163) > > [and over](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=265238) > > [until](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261861) > > [the mind reels](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=254845) > > [and the stomach rebels.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=246742) > > [It just](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=262226) > > [never ends.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=259171) > > [Gaack.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=254178) > Ad nauseum. **Rjung** has almost 10,000 freaking posts and you dig up a dozen or so in which he says the same thing? Whoop-de-fucking-do! We need to repeat ourselves because it appears to be the only way to get through to all your thick skulls. Kind of like when Bush convinced half the friggin country SH and AQ where in bed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/77 "2004-08-20T18:14:52Z")
[Over half (54%) do, even today](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/20/poll_finds_many_still_believe_iraq_had_weapons_of_mass_destruction_al_qaeda_link/). ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/78 "2004-08-20T19:10:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Over half (54%) do, even today](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/20/poll_finds_many_still_believe_iraq_had_weapons_of_mass_destruction_al_qaeda_link/). Thanks **Elvis** You want to get pissed at someone for repeating something a million times? Get mad at Bush! ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/79 "2004-08-20T19:30:18Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > If being concerned about the fairness and accuracy of our nation’s elections is a crime, then let me be found guilty, halleujah! > Pardon me for being more concerned about the issue than you, then. What makes you say that? Because I don’t post “Diebold is an evil Repug plot!!!” in every other thread? Once again, this isn’t about Diebold or your level of concern, it’s about message board etiquette, pure and simple. Read through the links in the OP, there’s very little that you’re bringing to the table in 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544/80 "2004-08-20T19:34:26Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I _have_ started thread **s** on the topic. And you’ll doubtlesssly continue to bitch about those, too. What do I win? A pack of gum? A beer? Come on, I get something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-rjung/260544.md?page=5)