I’m not denying that there may be sound, logical reasons for being anal about this. I’m just saying it would never occur to me and I can’t make my brain think that way. (I also can’t make my brain think the way that thinks “hey, CarrotTop is a hilarious actor!” but you know what? He makes a hell of a lot more money than I do because plenty of people think exactly that.)
Opalcat. I will be the first to agree with you in that sentiment. Look, I’m not the best soldier or NCO, I’m not a hero (well maybe…
) and there are a lot of things I see differently than the military rank and file do. I will tell you this…the fact that you’ve said several times that its just not the way you think is ok with me. I really appreciate that because its honest and its freakin’ common sense. You never said any knee jerk bad comment about the military, just that its not you.
I told you that I was kinda like you in my college days. I am not ashamed of that at all. I don’t like to use force if another way can be found. (unfortunately our leaders seem to think otherwise…yeah, I’m looking at you Dubya, you lying sack of shit). I’m no Captain America but I took an oath to defend and protect the constitution and the nation. Some of the rules I have to abide by are silly…really. But I took an oath. *(come on, male soldiers cannot carry umbrellas in uniform. that is just beyond stupid. I’ve caught more colds than an normal person because of that) *
And other posters have a point. If you don’t give a shit as a soldier about how you look in public I may have a problem with you backing me up when the shit hits the fan. Did you bother to check your weapon? Did you bother to bring a first aid kit? Did you bother to remember basic map reading so we don’t get lost in enemy territory? Its not a small thing…a single detail can get people killed. It sounds insane to a civilian but to someone who may have yo put their ass on the line its important.
That being said, I never thought you were being anti-military Opalcat. Like you, I’m an individual. We as humans can’t help but be individuals. Every soldier is an individual. I would not like a military made of robots. whats important is that we have discipline and rules we all jointly obey and that while we are all individuals we work as a ***team. ***
Yes they do. They want us to think they’re bad-assed. 
And I do! Think so. Except fot the… Better not.
mangeorge
I wish I could restrain myself when I read instructions that change mood, tense, and person (in the same paragraph; doesn’t anybody else actually read these things?).
Opal, you put the issue in perspective for me. It may not matter to me, but it matters to the people that matter. While I will still assume any scruffy soldier I see is just coming off some exhausting duty, I can accept that those who would prefer them all neat and spiffy are not just mean-spirited control freaks.
… maybe the instructions on how to wear the uniforms are not perfectly well written …
Clearly, you’ve never read military regulations before. Here are the guidelines concerning the delivery of headstones to US Army-operated cemeteries:
[QUOTE=Department of the Army
Pamphlet 290–5]
4–17. Delivery and receipt
a. Headstones and markers for Army cemeteries are procured by
the U.S. Department of Veterans’ Affairs. That office will furnish
the Superintendent a list of the headstones or markers that have
been ordered for the cemetery.
b. Pending receipt of the headstone, the Superintendent will set
up a suspense file, by month, using the DA Form 2122. Upon
receipt of the summary of monuments list the inscription data will
be verified with the DA Form 2122, and any discrepancies noted
will be telephoned at once to the U.S. Department of Veterans’
Affairs, so correction can be made before the headstone is inscribed.
Cemetery records will be annotated to indicate that date and time
the corrections were called in.
c. The Superintendent reviews the suspense file each month. Followup
action in writing will be taken if the headstone has not been
received within 120 days after interment. This followup action will
be sent to the Procurement Division, National Cemetery System,
U.S. Department of Veterans’ Affairs. It will include the decedent’s
full name, date of interment, grave number, section, and SF 1103A
(Government Bill of Lading (GBL)) number, if available.
d. When the next of kin inquires about nonreceipt of a headstone,
and the normal time period has elapsed, the Superintendent corresponds
with the Director, instead of suggesting that the next of kin
write for the information. In this way, the Superintendent knows
first hand of the problem and ensures that the headstone is erected
as soon as possible.
e. When a headstone is received at the cemetery, with no discrepancies,
the DA Form 2122 will be annotated to include date received
and erected, and GBL number.
f. When headstones or markers are delivered to the cemetery, the
Superintendent examines them for damage. Any damage will be
noted on the carrier’s delivery ticket. The Superintendent also obtains
a damage inspection report from the carrier and forwards this
report to the Director, Monument Service, National Cemetery System,
U.S. Department of Veterans’ Affairs, along with a letter requesting
a replacement of the broken or damaged headstones. In the
event the carrier’s agent does not inspect the damage, the Superintendent
notifies the U.S. Department of Veterans’ Affairs so that
they may obtain adjustments from the carrier.
g. When headstones or markers are delivered to the cemetery and
the Superintendent is not able to inspect the headstone at that time,
he will annotate the carrier’s delivery ticket to indicate the delivery
is being accepted conditionally, and that any concealed damage will
DA PAM 290–5 • 1 May 1991 9
be reported at a later date. The procedure for replacement of a
damaged headstone indicated in f above will be followed.
[/QUOTE]
Even if the regs are not (and they are, see above), the nearest friendly sergeant will be happy to explain it to you using clear, simple (if extremely foul) language.
Actually the regs on uniforms are pretty easy to understand.
I think he was making a joke about how his peeve is poorly written things.
I thought they were’nt supposed to use extremely foul language!
And specific- I’m pretty sure you will get the measurements for the correct space between patches and other insignia.
Most don’t even need to- my brother can straighten out a specialist with very few words.
They do. You can even buy a pocketsized uniform guide at military clothing sales that includes a small ruler made to help you measure it. Most times you won’t need to be exact unless you’re going to a promotion board or an inspection, but it comes in handy.
As corny as it sounds, my old platoon sergeant said this to me once when I screwed up…“I’m very disappointed in you.”.
He was a great platoon sergeant and when he said that it made me get my head out of my ass faster and with better morale than any ass chewing ever could.
I lived with Marines for three years. Aboard ship. Life is somewhat different out there. Believe me, those foul words flow freely in both directions.
I particularly like the meaning “next slide, please”. Perhaps I’ll start using that when I do bibliographic instruction workshops. “To find a journal article, you’ll need an index! Hooah. Now, some of the various types of indexes…”
Hooah is always appropriate (like a Blazing Saddles quote)- we use it at family gatherings quite a bit.
Way back in the dark ages when I was just a private there was a sergeant that said “hooah” as a response to everything. A buddy of mine, Smith, one day said he was going to see how many times he could get the guy to say hooah in in conversation. So he goes up to him and starts some mundane conversation. Gawd, it was funny. The sergeant answered almost everything with hooah and Smith, who was just pulling shit out of his ass, was barely containing himself. I felt like I was going to burst holding in the laughter.
The best thing about hooah being multipurpose is that I use it as a response to stuff I don’t actually agree with. (I’ve had experience in getting into hot water by saying stuff like “This is Bullshit!”.) So I just say “hooah” which in some cases, at least for me, means, “You’re being a dicj=k, but I’ll follow my orders as insane as they are, blockhead.”.
I’m a citizen and a taxpayer. As a government employee, that means they work for me. That’s who the fuck I am!
And my displeasure with their attire is hardly arbitrary. If you had the slightest amount of reading comprehension you would have known that from the rest of this thread. Eat shit and [del]die[/del]get very sick, asshole.
No offense, but that is kind of lame. They work for the US gov’t. Your taxes might fund the budget, but that pretty far back on the food chain.
I’m a citizen and a taxpayer, too, but until I read this thread I was totally unaware of the finer points of how military attire should be worn (I was never in the military, having flunked my physical when I tried to enlist). And to be perfectly honest, even having read it I still don’t feel it is my place to give grief to those who are serving in the military. I understand (to some extant) the reasons for “maintaining military discipline” but it’s not my responsibility to see that it is maintained.
On a recent trip I saw quite a few people in what looked to me like desert camo, and they all appeared neat and presentable to my civilian eyes. Whether their pants were properly tucked in and bloused, or if their pockets were buttoned, etc is totally irrelevant to me, and did not affect my respect for them. And even if I did see someone in uniform who was a bit disheveled, I would assume that they had been having a rough trip (and I’ve had my share of those) and would think no less of them for their appearance.
I’m actually in the military, moron, so I didn’t need a thread at the SDMB to enlighten me on military regulations. And no, jerkoff, I don’t work for you.
I don’t have a whole lot else to say, because why bother fighting with someone on the internet whose life is so unfulfilling that he has to get his panties in a twist and snitch on the brave members on the military for something as ridiculous as their uniforms? I’m sure that if someone makes a habit of wearing it improperly, he or she will eventually get what’s coming to him from the chain of command.
Also, I’m reporting you for telling me to die.
Isn’t it funny when you come to a thread like this and just have the perfect story? I just got back from a trip where I happened to see several soldiers, a couple of sailors, and a Marine all travelling in uniform. The Marine looked the best (nobody ever looks better than a Marine and I say this as a former sailor), but the Army guys looked way the worst. This was at least partially the fault of the uniform – they were all wearing those ACUs and they just look sloppier than the dress uniforms worn by the other services. But some of the guys really were sloppy and there’s no excuse for that, IMO.
Anyway, I sat next to a sailor in his dress blues and we talked about this very thing. My sailor was wrinkled and somewhat scuffed (he was traveling from overseas), but his uniform was worn correctly and he was reasonably squared away, considering he’d been wearing his uniform for over 48 hours. His white hat had a big black mark on it and he was fussed about that – he had dropped it and it had gotten stepped on and it really was noticable but there wasn’t anything he could do about. He had checked his seabag and couldn’t get to it, and he didn’t have another hat in his carryon. I tried to comfort him, telling him that people don’t expect perfection when travelling, but he pointed out the sloppiest Army guy to me and said, “But it’s such a bad example.” He really hated the idea that someone might see his dirty hat and think he was no prouder of his uniform than that soldier with the unbloused pants, untied boots, and crushed, crumpled hat.
Then he pointed to the Marine (who looked inspection-ready as far as I could tell) and told me that he had spoken to her at the USO in Atlanta and she had actually been travelling longer than he had and still looked perfect. I told him that he couldn’t expect to compete with a Marine when it came to uniforms and he agreed, then pointed to the sloppy soldier again and said, “But I think we should all set the bar higher than that.”
He was a nice kid and I enjoyed talking to him. And he and the Marine (both E-4s as it happened) looked exponentially more professional than that sloppy soldier who was an O-2!
Now, this is nothing against the Army – although as a former sailor, Navy wife and Navy mom I admit to a bias for sailors. On the outbound part of my trip I sat next to a soldier (wearing civvies) who was a good guy, too – very neat & well spoken. But I can see how people on my inbound flight might easily get the impression that soldiers aren’t as professional as sailors or Marines. And that isn’t the impression of your service you want to be giving when you’re wearing the uniform.