# Hey Stoneburg, you gutless, lying pusbag... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 15, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076 "2003-12-15T06:27:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/41 "2003-12-15T18:49:59Z")
Well, that was _spooky_. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/42 "2003-12-15T18:51:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yguy \* > \*\*Don’t be silly. I _never_ lose. 🙂 \*\* On planet **yguy** possibly… ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/43 "2003-12-15T18:52:33Z")
No, according to my Sunday School teachers, accusing someone of lying when you know they’ve made an honest mistake (or are actually right) counts as false witness, too. In short, anything that deliberately gave a false or inaccurate view of someone else is false witness. Since **Stoneburg** was simply laying out his conclusions and asking you if they were accurate, he’s in the clear morally. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/44 "2003-12-15T18:55:46Z")
Damn my slow typing. The above was directed at **yguy** and his assumption that he’s not bearing false witness. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/45 "2003-12-15T18:59:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > \*\*Well, that was _spooky_. \*\* If you think that was scary: I still haven’t forgotten your Rush-bashing of the other day, friend. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![yguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@yguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yguy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/46 "2003-12-15T19:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\*No, according to my Sunday School teachers, accusing someone of lying when you know they’ve made an honest mistake (or are actually right) counts as false witness, too. In short, anything that deliberately gave a false or inaccurate view of someone else is false witness. Since **Stoneburg** was simply laying out his conclusions and asking you if they were accurate, he’s in the clear morally. \*\* He didn’t ask me if they were accurate until I posted this thread, and he has yet to support the allegation that I misrepresented anything. How in hell can he be clear morally? ---
**Author:** ![yguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@yguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yguy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/47 "2003-12-15T19:09:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*And I’m under no obligation to leave this thread open, should you keep this dumb game up. > > Your call. \*\* Perhaps you could flesh out your objection to my conduct here a little more. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/48 "2003-12-15T19:15:49Z")
All right. You pitted **Stoneburg** for apparently misrepresenting you. You cannot do this without stating your _true_ beliefs in this regard. He’s saying _“you come across as someone with such-and-such beliefs”_. If you’re offended by his remarks, it would help to state whichever your beliefs truly are. Not only would this be a lot less annoying, it would also save all of a a lot of time, as you are no doubt planning on dancing around this issue for pages on end. I’m just here to tell you that _that’s_ not going to fly - you either explain why you were offended, or this thread gets closed. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/49 "2003-12-15T19:23:29Z")
There are actually people opposed to the theory of evolution who propose alternate scientific theories. Their positions may not be ones you find terribly convincing (I think they’re rubbish), but they exist. If you want to argue that they are all _really_ religious apologists, fine, but in real debate one would actually refute their arguments (which wouldn’t be terribly difficult). But it’s generally bad darts to just assume we know what someone else’s motives or arguments are when that person hasn’t actually identified them yet. I think it is also inarguable that there are those who find homosexuality “wrong” without using a religious foundation. The world is filled with rationales for why things are “evil.” And there are certainly people opposed to abortion on non-religious grounds. Heck, there are atheists who oppose abortion. So, Stoneburg may be a reasonable chap and a fine addition to the board. And yguy may come across confrontationally. But that doesn’t change the fact that yguy is actually correct in this instance: Stoneburg has not proven his assertions, not as they stand in their entirety. If you also feel his inferences were reasonable, that’s fine. But they are inferences, which I believe is yguy’s point. Retorting with some variation on, “But you won’t tell us whether Stoneburg is right or wrong, will you?” doesn’t really change this fact. In the end you might consider it a minor point, but it _is_ the point of this entire thread. If there’s more detail that would clarify the matter, please bring it forth. That other thread was filled with over-inflated posts to a degree that gave me a headache. I really haven’t kept up with everything. (Or, maybe the thread just gets closed. Whatever.) ---
**Author:** ![yguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@yguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yguy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/50 "2003-12-15T19:24:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SentientMeat \* > **yguy** , please state your position on each of those three issues clearly and succinctly. What for? If I said I’m not a Bible literalist, why would you believe me, since you don’t believe me when I say my belief about abortion has no religious basis? > [@](#): > > If you believe evolution is preposterous, you are an idiot. Idiots believe that the Earth is thousands of years old. If **Stoneburg** needs to be set straight, it is only in exactly _which kind_ of idiot you are. As for the age of the Earth, I have no opinion. The question doesn’t hold much interest for me. Although I do believe it _could_ be a few thousand years old, I rather lean against it. Couldn’t tell you why. > [@](#): > > If you are anti-abortion, you are not necessarily an idiot. But if your morality is based strongly on your religion, then if you quibble over being described by the phrase “you are anti-abortionist on religious grounds”, you _are_ an idiot. I said in the abortion thread, BEFORE Stoneburg made a liar of himself, that I am not a Christian. Do you believe me? Didn’t think so. It’s true anyway. > [@](#): > > Your quote on homosexuality is paraphrased thus: “The obvious truth is that there is something wrong with homosexuality”. Guess what this means. It means you think I’m an idiot. \ > [@](#): > > **Stoneburg** has emerged here with all of his (?) dignity intact, and has gained my utter respect for his patience and good grace. > > You, on the other hand, must state your position clearly and succinctly if you wish to have any hope of escaping the label “idiot”. Labels are only codifications of the collective perceptions of a group of people. How I may be perceived by others is largely out of my control, especially if they are predisposed to presume the worst, as some here obviously are. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/51 "2003-12-15T19:37:44Z")
If you’re not going to tell us anything else, **yguy** , please tell us about the “obvious truth” of homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/52 "2003-12-15T19:37:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yguy \* > \*\*Labels are only codifications of the collective perceptions of a group of people. How I may be perceived by others is largely out of my control, especially if they are predisposed to presume the worst, as some here obviously are. \*\* Hint: people are more likely to codify their collective perception of you as “idiot” if you play semantic games in lieu of actual discussion, and then whine about no one understands your real views on a subject. _You_ started this thread to complain about how **Stoneburg** made false assumptions about your opinions. **Stoneburg** explained why he made the assumptions he did. Instead of simply stating what your actual positions are and where his assumptions were incorrect, you went into a childish semantic frenzy. At that point, it doesn’t matter if **Stoneburg** was 100% accurate about you or not. Arguing like that makes you look like a dumbass. Thus, until I have reason to believe otherwise, I’m going to think you’re a dumbass. You do have some control over whether or not I think that, since I base it largely on what you type. However, if you are in fact a dumbass, you probably can’t control it so I can understand your frustration about people being predisposed to slap the “dumbass” label on dumbasses. Reality can be painful. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/53 "2003-12-15T19:38:30Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SentientMeat_ > **yguy, please state your position on each of those three issues clearly and succinctly.** > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by yguy \* > > **What for?** Because by not doing so, you’re making yourself look like a chickenshit weasel. If you refute what (the highly impressive) **Stoneburg** has claimed about you, then you need to indicate _why_ he is indeed incorrect. By refusing to divulge the information, you look like Saddam in the last days before Shock and Awe. ---
**Author:** ![yguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@yguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yguy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/54 "2003-12-15T19:42:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > All right. You pitted **Stoneburg** for apparently misrepresenting you. You cannot do this without stating your _true_ beliefs in this regard. I did, in the thread in question. As for my beliefs in general, how difficult do you think it would be for me to just lie? > [@](#): > > Not only would this be a lot less annoying, it would also save all of a a lot of time, as you are no doubt planning on dancing around this issue for pages on end. Not at all. It won’t be long before I see exactly what Stoneburg is made of, and that will be the end of it, unless other posters in this thread just can’t live without me; i.e., at that point I will no longer be the aggressor. > [@](#): > > I’m just here to tell you that _that’s_ not going to fly - you either explain why you were offended, or this thread gets closed. I have explained EXACTLY why I was offended. He tried to conveniently pigeonhole me because he can’t deal with my arguments on their own merits. That’s what I call intellectual cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/55 "2003-12-15T19:43:02Z")
_sniff_sniff\* Does anyone else smell anything? **Yguy** - this is not a fairy tale messege board. Trolling is strictly forbidden and you seem to not be able to substantiate any of your claims. Maybe trying to be a little more maturity in your posting style and a little less pre-teen, someone may take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![yguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@yguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yguy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/56 "2003-12-15T19:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*If you’re not going to tell us anything else, **yguy** , please tell us about the “obvious truth” of homosexuality. \*\* What can I tell you, other than that it’s obvious to me? You want proof? Fine, right after you prove that hypocrisy is wrong. Hint: “All proofs lead to propositions which have no proof.” ~ Frank Herbert ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/57 "2003-12-15T20:07:10Z")
_What’s_ obvious to you? I’m not even asking you to prove it, I’m just asking you what it _is_. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/58 "2003-12-15T20:11:08Z")
> [@](#): > > What can I tell you, other than that it’s obvious to me? For starters, exactly what is the truth about homosexuality that is obvious to you? Is it good for your teeth, bad for the complexion? Is it “sinful?” Is is delightful? ---
**Author:** ![yguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@yguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yguy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/59 "2003-12-15T20:12:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*_What’s_ obvious to you? I’m not even asking you to prove it, I’m just asking you what it _is_. \*\* It’s a sexual perversion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076/60 "2003-12-15T20:13:57Z")
It’s so nice when a tiny chunk of the future becomes totally predictable. Since **yguy** is a weasel of gargantuan proportions, and can’t answer a question to save his life, **Coldie** is going to make good on his promise and shut down this ludicrous thread. Then **yguy** is going to start a pit thread about why this thread got closed down. I’m predicting full-on meltdown within 48 hours, or alternately, a big flouncy “You guys are mean, and beneath me, so I’m going away and you won’t get the benefit of my entirely undefined philosophy anymore” exit. To be followed within days by more moronic posts. It’s not a pleasant future, but it’s inevitable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-stoneburg-you-gutless-lying-pusbag/219076.md?page=4)