# Hey there Macaca, welcome to America (George Allen, our next President) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2006, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912 "2006-08-16T04:05:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/41 "2006-08-16T20:52:20Z")
Apparently it’s a French slur used against North Africans. So if he’s so fluent it’s likely he was aware of the origins of the term. What a twat. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/42 "2006-08-16T21:16:34Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Come on. Why would his staffers use that term? It’s not part of the English language. It is, however, commonly used in North African Francophones, which is what Allen’s mother is. That’s the far simpler explanation. I guess you’re right about that. > [@John Mace](#): > > And politicians slip up like this more than you’d expect. Allen is usually a lot smoother than this, but he fucked up this time. There just isn’t a more reasonable or plausible explanation. But do you really believe that he slipped up **three times** uttering a slur when he knew that he was being filmed by his opponents camp? He is smooth. He is no idiot. That’s the part that makes no sense to me. He’s not that dumb. I don’t even thiink Cynthia McKinney would do something so dumb. And that’s saying something. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/43 "2006-08-16T21:18:04Z")
> [@Fred D](#): > > Genius? Even if you think that singling out opposition in a big crowd is a neat rhetorical trick, in this particular instance it’s a pretty obvious political gaffe – whether you think Allen is in the right _or_ wrong, it isn’t smart wording. Part of being a good politician is avoiding word choices that can be misinterpreted even if when technically broken down they are inoffensive. I meant genius in a Bloefeldian sense. And it does appear dumb. So dumb that I’d love to know the real explanation, though I doubt we ever will. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/44 "2006-08-16T21:24:39Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Your interpretation is not only strained, but you had to insert parantheticals to even make it pass a laugh test. Look, it’s even clearer in the video, but it’s plain on the transcript: he may ultimately want his bil directed at Webb, but in the immediate here and now he turns to and addresses “macaca here.” There isn’t any denying that. You are ignoring what preceded it. Context matters. Even when you don’t like the guy. > [@Apos](#): > > Right… which unless the kid is being disruptive (he wasn’t) is a really dick thing to do, even if he’s the volunteer or your opponent. It’s odd that you would argue the point given that Allen has apologized for this (and, really, only this). These trackers are used by all campaigns. Allen had trackers following Webb: TWO of them. And one actually DID start harrasing Webb… and ultimately got an arrest warrant for his trouble when he wouldn’t leave private property. I am not implying this kid did anything wrong. I just watched a little interview with hi mon the web and he seems like a great kid. I must admit that all these “explanations” I’ve been hearing after the fact do strain the brain. > [@Apos](#): > > So you can tell the color of people’s skin by hearing them? Even Allen’s supporters described this as an all white or nearly all white crowd. Suffice to say, the kid stood out in more ways than one and calling him out was pretty darn dunderheaded. Oh no, no, no you don’t. You made a claim that he was the only minority in the crowd. I simply asked how you could know that from the link yoiu had supplied. The video showed only three or four people in the crowd. The burden falls to you, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a183cd/32.png) [@Fred\_D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred_D)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/45 "2006-08-16T21:25:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I meant genius in a Bloefeldian sense. I still think he should have taken more care to avoid the SPECTRE of racism. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/46 "2006-08-16T21:26:33Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > A mohullet? A mullohawk? How about, a mistake. Did you see it? It is pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/47 "2006-08-16T21:27:51Z")
😃 Nice. 😃 > [@Fred D](#): > > I still think he should have taken more care to avoid the SPECTRE of racism. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/48 "2006-08-16T21:41:23Z")
> [@Fred D](#): > > I think it’s pretty clear contextually that the “Welcome to America” statement refers to the supposed Hollywood elite status of Allen’s opponent and his supporters. Would it be less offensive if he had said “Welcome to the real America”? huh? This makes no sense to me. He is speaking to a young man with a video camera–is every young man with a camera now assumed to be one of the Hollywood elite? He knows this guy is from his opponent’s campaign. How would it be less offensive if he said “welcome to the real America”? That would be even more offensive–why is he assuming that the kid-Sidharth-is NOT an American at all? Have you ever heard anyone say this to another white person during a campaign? It’s weird as hell that he would say that to Sidharth. **RT** -sorry, didn’t study up on Allen prior to posting. Either way, it’s obvious that what his mother taught him in manners is sorely lacking, and that’s being nice about it all. This guy sounds like a complete prick. If that book is truly by his sister and is true–he has anger management problems, big time as well. Just what we need in government–another macho fuck with a chip on his shoulder… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/49 "2006-08-16T21:51:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You are ignoring what preceded it. Context matters. Even when you don’t like the guy. I’m not ignoring anything. He directly addressed Mr. “Macaca” not Webb. What preceeding it serves to establish that Allen believed that he was scoring points on Webb by singling out his staffer. It DOESN’T establish that Allen was not directing his comments in an immediate sense, at that staffer. You’re trying to split the hairs of already split hairs on a toupee that is on someone else’s head. > [@](#): > > Oh no, no, no you don’t. You made a claim that he was the only minority in the crowd. I simply asked how you could know that from the link yoiu had supplied. The video showed only three or four people in the crowd. The burden falls to you, my friend. I know because that’s what the kid said: he was the only minority in the crowd. So far, no Allen apologist has argued this point: some have even become defensive about it “well, so what!!!?” ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a183cd/32.png) [@Fred\_D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred_D)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/50 "2006-08-16T21:59:05Z")
**eleanor:** Perhaps I overstated the clarity of the context of the statement, as I believe it to be. To address your question, the phrase “real America” or “real Americans” is a common rhetorical device used by politicians to denote the difference between the values and beliefs held by an opponent or represented in the biased media, and those values and beliefs that are actually held by “real Americans”. It’s sort of the equivalent of “no true Scotsman.” For example, a politician might say that the representations of tolerance for homosexuality that appear in films or television shows do not reflect the values of “real America,” or that the Supreme Court’s decisions regarding a woman’s right to choose are not in keeping with the values of “real Americans.” In fact, the rhetoric of “real American values” is a huge driving force in the Conservative fight against activist judges. Some real-world examples: In a speech at a Chinese university, President Bush stated that “our movies and television shows often do not portray the values of the real America I know.” Radio talk show host Glenn Beck wrote a book about traveling to “Real America” as contrasted with the America shown in films and on TV. Jimmy Carter wrote an op-ed piece last November for the LA Times about the difference between the current administrations policies and the values of “real America,” fittingly titled “This isn’t the real America.” None of these examples were intended to single out ethnic Americans as being outside of the real America. In my humble opinion, Allen is merely the latest in a long line of politicians to use this device. It is unfortunate (for him!) that he chose to use it in the same sentence as a racial slur, and that he chose to direct both it and the racial slur towards an ethnic minority. I choose to attribute his statements to the dangers inherent in going off-script – to me, at least, it appears that he intended to show that his opponent (and therefor his opponent’s volunteers) were unfamiliar with the values of real Americans but bungled the delivery quite badly (both at the time and with his subsequent lousy apologies and excuses). ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a183cd/32.png) [@Fred\_D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred_D)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/51 "2006-08-16T22:32:15Z")
PS While I was googling for examples of politicians using the “real America” rhetorical device, I came across another confluence of Tunisia and Real America that occured [exactly a year ago this month.](http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/related/87159.php) > [@](#): > > Tunisian teens get to see ‘real’ America Are these stories related? Is time, in fact, circular in nature? Pay me five american dollars to find out the horrifying truth! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/52 "2006-08-16T22:39:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But do you really believe that he slipped up **three times** uttering a slur when he knew that he was being filmed by his opponents camp? He is smooth. He is no idiot. That’s the part that makes no sense to me. He’s not that dumb. He was using a totally obscure slur, so I know _I_ can believe it. I’m not saying I do believe it 100%, but it seems most likely. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/53 "2006-08-16T22:44:53Z")
> [@Fred D](#): > > **eleanor:** I choose to attribute his statements to the dangers inherent in going off-script – to me, at least, it appears that he intended to show that his opponent (and therefor his opponent’s volunteers) were unfamiliar with the values of real Americans but bungled the delivery quite badly (both at the time and with his subsequent lousy apologies and excuses). No offense, but IMO, you are charitable to the point of --well, you’re too charitable. If I were a minority and were told by a white man, in front of a group of whites, “welcome to America”, I would be on the phone to Jesse Jackson or (insert appropriate lobbyist/spokesperson here). I don’t see how it can be construed as anything but racist–especially given his Macaca remark. I hope the Dems actually DO something with this–Swift Boat this guy’s ass back under the rock he crawled out from. (how’s that for a tortured sentence?) ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/54 "2006-08-16T23:43:15Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Swift Boat this guy’s ass back under the rock he crawled out from. Why SwiftBoat him, when you can use true stuff? (am I swimming against the tide for this usage?) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/55 "2006-08-17T00:11:14Z")
Related: [Allen’s sister calls him a bully who enjoys making people suffer.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/08/16/gop-senator-george-allen_n_27382.html) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/56 "2006-08-17T00:25:39Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > huh? This makes no sense to me. He is speaking to a young man with a video camera–is every young man with a camera now assumed to be one of the Hollywood elite? He knows this guy is from his opponent’s campaign. How would it be less offensive if he said “welcome to the real America”? That would be even more offensive–why is he assuming that the kid-Sidharth-is NOT an American at all? > > Have you ever heard anyone say this to another white person during a campaign? I doubt I could find a cite, but I’m pretty sure that I have heard similar rhetoric used in just that context. “My opponent is a Hollywood leftist/beltway insider/rich plutocrat. He doesn’t know what it’s like out here in the REAL America!” That part, at least, I don’t think is necessarily racist. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/57 "2006-08-17T00:36:44Z")
It is, I think, however increasingly vile: it’s an extremely unthinking reflexive signal to start hating. It’s also a superiority complex a mile wide born out of pure resentment and a sense of victimhood… from, bizarrely, the priveleged and powerful. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/58 "2006-08-17T00:38:19Z")
Allen wasn’t speaking to Web, then–he was “greeting” Sidarth. If he had been referring to his opponent, he should have said so, or made it clear that he was. As it stands, he is speaking to the guy holding the video camera–not that guy’s boss/candidate. I meant Swift Boat in the sense of just putting it everywhere in the media and never letting the story die. I do realize the SBers were making shit up out of whole cloth. And here we have someone who is apparently open about his feelings re minorities. Sadly, there will be plenty who support him BECAUSE of his sentiments, not despite them. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/59 "2006-08-17T01:07:43Z")
I don’t think there are many that would support him because of it. Even the white power assholes who use that term aren’t generally Republican voters and partisan Republicans are far more to find reasons to excuse his behavior, explain it away, or focus on the evilness of Democrats. Virtually none of them are going to be happy that this happened. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912/60 "2006-08-17T01:19:41Z")
Yet another amusing wrinkle along that “you’re not from here!” line: [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,208720,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,208720,00.html) > [@](#): > > Webb said he was particularly irritated that, during the video clip, Allen insinuates that Webb has never been to towns in far southwest Virginia like Breaks, Va., where Allen gave his “Macaca” speech. > > “I’ve spent a good part of my life going down there not because of politics but because I have family there,” Webb said, noting that Sidarth had actually stayed the home of Webb family members the night before Allen’s speech. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-there-macaca-welcome-to-america-george-allen-our-next-president/368912.md?page=4)