# Hey Tomndebb, grow a pair already **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 8, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075 "2009-06-08T06:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/21 "2009-06-09T03:13:18Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > That doesn’t fit the “group” criteria on two counts: > (1) It’s too small group; and > (2) It’s a group of posters, and ONLY posters. Hence, insulting that group is insulting other posters. Full stop. > > Our exception is intended to allow people to insult Republicans, Democrats, Whigs, intellectuals, police, doctors, whatever. It may be that some posters are Republicans, Democrats, Whigs, intellectuals, police, doctors, whatever; the insult addressed at the group is NOT the same as insulting the other posters. > > When the group is just posters, then your example is just trying to fancy-foot around the rules. > > **Second Stone** , you seem itching to push for a warning. I suggest that you take a day or two away from the boards to cool down and relax, take deep breaths, and forget this incident. Thank you for your input. I respectfully disagree with so much of what you have said and the reasons for your saying them that I won’t post it here. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/22 "2009-06-09T03:42:38Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Thank you for your input. I respectfully disagree with so much of what you have said and the reasons for your saying them that I won’t post it here. Dude, seriously. You engaged in a thread that got a little heated. If the mods really wanted to, I suppose they could go back through the thread and pass out warnings to most of the participants, including me. Is that the kind of board you want? Really? Get over it already. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/23 "2009-06-09T04:22:34Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Dude, seriously. You engaged in a thread that got a little heated. If the mods really wanted to, I suppose they could go back through the thread and pass out warnings to most of the participants, including me. Is that the kind of board you want? Really? > > Get over it already. No, I want a board where everybody is treated in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Anonymous\_Coward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Anonymous\_Coward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonymous_Coward)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/24 "2009-06-09T05:20:22Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Slashdot is barely one step above youtube comments. I agree ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/25 "2009-06-09T05:20:42Z")
> [@The Second Stone](#): > > No, I want a board where everybody is treated in the same way. Then find a board where everybody earns the same treatment. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/26 "2009-06-09T05:30:12Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No, I want a board where everybody is treated in the same way. Everybody was treated the same way. We were all equally not warned. Well, OK…my not warning was shinier than yours, but I’m special like that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/27 "2009-06-09T06:16:05Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Everybody was treated the same way. We were all equally not warned. Well, OK…my not warning was shinier than yours, but I’m special like that. See, you get it. People who don’t get it just don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/28 "2009-06-09T07:24:06Z")
> [@](#): > > **Dr. Seid** : “…well we call people like you assholes in the pit.”. Technical nitpick: But posters are limited to occasional use of _asshole_ when in **the Pit**. In **Great Debates** , if he is “lured into bad behavior” by following someone else’s example, he might be thus victimized numerous times and use this vulgarity repeatedly. “Mods, have mercy!” she foreshadowed. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/29 "2009-06-09T10:35:54Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No, I want a board where everybody is treated in the same way. Then you should find another board. Seriously, I think it’s fairly well established that certain mods have certain biases, and those are not going to go away anytime soon. (There have been many, many threads about this. Lots of posters point out the biases and the mods deny, deny, deny. Rinse and repeat.) So you can either learn to live with them, stay out of their forums, or leave. I’ve choosen option 2, because I don’t have the time or the energy to waste fighting a losing battle against a lost cause. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/30 "2009-06-09T11:26:43Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Thank you for your input. I respectfully disagree with so much of what you have said and the reasons for your saying them that I won’t post it here. If you would like to start a separate thread discussing the policy of not insulting other posters outside the Pit, feel free to do so. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/31 "2009-06-09T11:37:40Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > If you would like to start a separate thread discussing the policy of not insulting other posters outside the Pit, feel free to do so. Why are you goading him here? He has said that he won’t be continuing the discussion, yet you push him to do so. What purpose does that serve Dex? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/32 "2009-06-09T12:14:49Z")
**Zoe** , Presuming that’s supposed to be quoting me, I’d humbly request that you quote me accurately. I said > [@](#): > > stupid asshole or worse is what they call people who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about and attempt to insult people who we respect over in The Pit in response to the defense that it was okay to call **Una** an anonymous coward because that’s the standard at Slashdot. Your quotebox of > [@](#): > > well we call people like you assholes in the pit is putting significantly different words in my mouth. As I had pointed out to **Second** , and in the interest of precision, I did not actually call **Second** an asshole and any interpretation that I did is made only by those who implicitly accept that **Second** was indeed someone who didn’t know what the fuck (s)he was talking about, was already trying to insult someone who the rest of us respect, and that **Second** ’s ploy of saying it is okay to do here because it is an allusion to what (s)he and others do elsewhere is no defense whatsoever. Whether not all of those things were or were not implicitly obvious to all reading and participating in the thread is a separate issue. Yes, I know that my post was still an implicit slapdown as those things were implicitly obvious and was a thus a violation of the _spirit_ of the rule against personal insults in GD, but I did phrase it in such a way as to not violate the letter of the law. Something that **Second** who claims to be a lawyer, should understand and even appreciate. Still I’d not have whined if I got a warning for the post. Or if mod wisdom had kept a tighter rein in that thread from early on. Really though? “Asshole” is “limited to occasional use” in the Pit now? Wow. I did not know and I hope we don’t all get too constipated. If only we could limit the assholes themselves to occasional! ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/33 "2009-06-09T13:14:27Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > See, you get it. People who don’t get it just don’t get it. Yeah, I’ve noticed at least one person who doesn’t get it… ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/34 "2009-06-10T04:28:21Z")
From my original post: > [@](#): > > **Zoe** : > > > [@](#): > > > > **Dr. Seid** : “…well we call people like you assholes in the pit.”. > > Technical nitpick: But posters are limited to occasional use of asshole when in the Pit. In Great Debates, if he is “lured into bad behavior” by following someone else’s example, he might be thus victimized numerous times and use this vulgarity repeatedly. From your response: > [@](#): > > **Dr. Seid** : Zoe, Presuming that’s supposed to be quoting me, I’d humbly request that you quote me accurately. I said > > Quote: > stupid asshole or worse is what they call people who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about and attempt to insult people who we respect over in The Pit > > in response to the defense that it was okay to call Una an anonymous coward because that’s the standard at Slashdot. Your quotebox of > Quote: > well we call people like you assholes in the pit > > is putting significantly different words in my mouth. I agree that that is indeed putting different words in your mouth. In a quotation, as far as I am concerned, any difference in meaning is significant. And any rearrangement of words is significant. At the time that I posted the quotation, I had read your original statement, but do not recall the exact wording. I certainly did not notice that the wording was any different from what another had posted in this thread. My quote came from this thread. I was actually quoting what **Sinaijon** had said that you had said. This was a careless but unintentional mistake on my part. I promise never ever ever to trust **Sinaijon** again. I’m afraid it’s true that the word _asshole_ is limited in the Pit. So is _bitch_. There is a new program on TV that has “BeYatch” (or however it’s spelled) in the title. I will avert my eyes. No offense to you, Sinaijon, Tom, The Stone, a leaf, an unfound door intended… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/35 "2009-06-10T11:58:32Z")
**Zoe** no worries. I hesitated about even correcting it. And I must admit that “a leaf, an unfound door intended …” has whooshed over my head. Is there a reference that I am missing? A pun? I do not spend very much time Pitside; how strictly do the mods actually enforce these mockworthy rules? What I’ve seen in my little time there is pretty much ignoring them except for the occasional poster who is intentionally and provocatively flaunting them (e.g. putting “Fuck” in the title, or repetitively posting “cunt” often in extra large font). Is that your experience too? Actually relevant to this thread - I get the impression that ever since the big outcry over these silly rules that the mods have been lax on enforcing any of the rules anywhere - has that been any one else’s impression as well? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/36 "2009-06-10T15:53:13Z")
MODERATOR NOTE: When using the quote-tags, quotes need to be accurate. This is one of our rules. Think of the way you would handl a quote in a research paper. Standard editing techniques are OK, such as elipses when words are left out, use of [sic], etc, just as in a theme paper or formal research paper. If you want to paraphrase or satirize, don’t use quote-tags. Also, **Zoe** , please note that the name is **DSeid** not “Dr Seid.” * * * In terms of the Pit, we’re fairly liberal about what can be said, but there are limits. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/37 "2009-06-10T16:27:58Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > In terms of the Pit, we’re fairly liberal about what can be said, but there are limits. :dubious: Not anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/38 "2009-06-10T16:31:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I do not spend very much time Pitside; how strictly do the mods actually enforce these mockworthy rules? What I’ve seen in my little time there is pretty much ignoring them except for the occasional poster who is intentionally and provocatively flaunting them (e.g. putting “Fuck” in the title, or repetitively posting “cunt” often in extra large font). Is that your experience too? Actually relevant to this thread - I get the impression that ever since the big outcry over these silly rules that the mods have been lax on enforcing any of the rules anywhere - has that been any one else’s impression as well? Generally, the rule on thread titles got relaxed a while back. The language rules regarding posts remain in place. > [@](#): > > Don’t go nuts in thread titles > > Profanity is permitted, but don’t get carried away. We reserve the right to do something about thread titles we think are over the top. > > Observe the Pit language rules > > A few expressions are not to be directed at other posters; a few others should be used sparingly - here’s a list. We may update the list from time to time. We reserve the right to take appropriate action in cases of posts we find exceptionally cruel, shocking, or crazy, regardless of target. [Revised Forum Rules for the BBQ Pit: read this before posting - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507985) [QUOTE=Gfactor] I’m not taking a living constitution approach to the list of words that shall not be spoken. [I apply it as written.] Here it is: > [@](#): > > Restricted language in the Pit > > * * * > > The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. > > cunt and variants, e.g., cuntlapper > motherfucker > cocksucker > fuck you and variants, e.g., go fuck yourself, fuck off and die > suck/lick my dick/cock and variants > > Expressions not referred to above but which are normally considered vulgar (e.g., asshole, dick, prick, bitch, kiss my ass) are subject to the following limitations: > > - occasional use only > - no posts consisting solely or mainly of vulgarities. > > Don’t play games. For example, don’t say, “X [some offboard personality] is a cunt, and you’re like X.” > > This list is subject to revision. [Restricted language in the Pit - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) I’ll let folks know by moderator note if they’re anywhere close to exceeding the occsional use limit for “expressions . . . normally considered vulgar.” There will be no surprise warnings. So far, nobody is even close. [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11221820&postcount=171](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11221820&postcount=171) [QUOTE=Gfactor] I’m willing to give each poster the benefit of the doubt, whether they \*should \*have gotten a clue or not. I explained my philosophy about this here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10872571#post10872571](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10872571#post10872571) My approach in every forum has been to mod note first and warn later, except in rare cases. I see no reason to deviate from that approach here. [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11099744&postcount=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11099744&postcount=5) **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/39 "2009-06-10T23:50:21Z")
> [@](#): > > **GFactor** : The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. > > cunt and variants, e.g., cuntlapper > motherfucker > cocksucker > fuck you and variants, e.g., go fuck yourself, fuck off and die > suck/lick my dick/cock and variants I’m glad that you reposted the rule. It is actually different from what I remembered. Most of the time I don’t have a problem with refraining from directing those expressions at other posters. There are exceptions for the truly vile, but those folks are _usually_ drive-bys anyway. But I do need to curse at random sometimes. Like during the Iron Bowl. “\* Fuck Alabama!\* War Eagle!” etc. And even though I don’t remember how I found the Straight Dope, I do remember using _Cocksucker_ in the Pit very early on just to show that I had ovaries. Then I found out that it was actually offensive to some people I liked and I hadn’t thought about that issue before. Okay to offend fellow Presbyterians; not okay to offend friendly gays. Sorry about screwing up you name **DSeid**. Can you tell I haven’t seen my shrink since last fall? Someone pays attention to a post that I make and I start calling him “Doctor.” I am pretty much in agreement with you that the rules are in place if needed and that maybe our comments did make a difference. I do remember Ed’s reassurance also that the changes would not be all that drastic anyway. Only a slight and almost meaningless pun for “a stone, a leaf, and unfound door.” Here are the opening lines to Thomas Wolfe’s _Look Homeward, Angel_. I’ve thrown in a _Battlestar Gallactica_ site for a cite. [Opening lines with _Battlestar Gallactica_ episode commentary](http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/battlestar_galactica/no_exit_2a.php?page=10) > [@](#): > > …a stone, a leaf, an unfound door; of a stone, a leaf, a door. And of all the forgotten faces. > Naked and alone we came into exile. In her dark womb we did not know our mother’s face; from the prison of her flesh we come into the unspeakable and incommunicable prison of this earth. > Which of us has known his brother? Which of us has looked into his father’s heart? Which of us has not remained forever prison-pent? Which of us is not forever a stranger and alone? > O waste of loss, in the hot mazes, lost, among bright stars on this most weary unbright cinder, lost! Remembering speechlessly we seek the great forgotten language, the lost lane-end into heaven, a stone, a leaf, an unfound door. Where? When? > O lost, and by the wind grieved, ghost, come back again. > > – Thomas Wolfe, _Look Homeward, Angel_ But where were we? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075/40 "2009-06-11T01:27:39Z")
**Zoe** , really no worries … and that is my profession - and half of my last name - not a psychiatrist, a pediatrician - I had thought that you had somehow remembered that from some past thread… And despite the fact that **C K Dexter Haven** felt the need to pound you with the quote rule after you had already acknowledged the error I do get the impression that enforcement has been in the other direction, lax, lately. The Pit rules are loosely applied and GD is often allowed to get quite a bit snarky before anything is “suggested”. The thread that spawned **Second** ’s inane whine of an op had indeed been very snarky for GD for most of its run. I think in days past a tighter rein would have been kept … but then everyone had a clear place to vent to whatever degree they desired to in the Pit, and that is at least officially, no longer the case … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-tomndebb-grow-a-pair-already/499075.md?page=3)