# Hey, we bagged another #2! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028 "2008-10-15T13:28:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/21 "2008-10-15T21:15:07Z")
Al Qaeda has a very flat organizational structure is all that is happening her. ---
**Author:** ![critter42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@critter42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/critter42)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/22 "2008-10-15T21:19:40Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > [Story here](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081015/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq). > > Either being the #2 guy in al-Qaida in Iraq is the equivalent of being the anonymous redshirt dude in the landing party on Star Trek TOS, or we’re making stuff up, or something. That, or like being the drummer for Spinal Tap. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/23 "2008-10-15T22:34:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To the OP: Why don’t you do a little research to convince us of what your thesis is? How many #2s have we bagged over what period of time? It’s not like this happens every week or even every month. A cursory googling reveals this has happened a fair number of times in the last 3 years or so. It’s a bit tricky, since al-Qaida is spelled a few different ways, as are the names of their numerous #2s. Abu Qaswarah, the #2 we just killed [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2008-10-15-iraq-mosul\_N.htm?csp=34](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2008-10-15-iraq-mosul_N.htm?csp=34) Hamad Jama al-Saedi, yet another #2, was arrested by Iraqi authorities in 2006, which is debateably “us” > **[BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq holds 'key al-Qaeda figure'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5309868.stm)** > > Al-Qaeda's number two in Iraq - said to be behind the bombing of a Shia shrine - has been arrested, officials say. Ayman al-Zawahiri, often referred to as a #2, has been reported killed, but turned up alive, now they’re saying he may be dead again, but that’s not verified. > **[Ayman al-Zawahiri](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri)** > > Ayman Mohammed Rabie al-Zawahiri (Arabic: أيمن محمد ربيع الظواهري, romanized: ʾAyman Muḥammad Rabīʿ aẓ-Ẓawāhirī;\[a\] 19 June 1951 – 31 July 2022) was an Egyptian-born pan-Islamist militant and physician who served as the second general emir of al-Qaeda from June 2011 until his death in July 2022. He is best known for being one of the main orchestrators of the September 11 attacks. > Al-Zawahiri graduated from Cairo University with a degree in medicine and a master's degree in surgery and was a s... Back in Sept. 2005, we also apparently killed #2, Abu Azzam. [http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,16740136-1702,00.html](http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,16740136-1702,00.html) I think there may be more, but to tell you the truth, it’s really kind of tedious trying to sift through them all. It’s quite common knowledge that there have been a few. As far as thesis goes, I believe I stated in the OP that I believe that it’s a combination of there having been a fair number of #2’s and there having been some amount of bullshit coming from the Pentagon/CIA/al-Qaida Busters-R-US. I didn’t mention that some of it appears to be oversimplification by the media, as **xtisme** suggested, and I agree that’s likely a factor, as well. It seems to me that the ::trumpets blaring:: We got #2!!! thing is getting diminishing returns anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/24 "2008-10-15T22:45:25Z")
This all reads like an allegorical 'Sixties British television show: Number 6: Where am I? Number 2: In the Village. Number 6: What do you want? Number 2: We want in-formation. Number 6: Whose side are you on? Number 2: That would be telling. We want in-formation. In-formation. In-formation. Number 6: You won’t get it. Number 2: By hook or by crook, we will. Number 6: Who are you? Number 2: The new Number 2. Number 6: Who is Number 1? Number 2: You are Number 6. Number 6: I am not a number, I am a free man. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/25 "2008-10-15T23:49:14Z")
Jeez, this big brother stuff gets old. In February the #3 Al Qaida leader, Abu Laith alLibi, was killed in Afghanistan. There are plenty others. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/26 "2008-10-17T05:42:50Z")
I know of a company where a retiring vice president receives a handsome bonus, a rich pension, an office, and research space & funding (it’s a pharmaceutical company). Executives on the verge of retirement would eagerly beseech their pals on the board to get them promoted. This company, at the time my informant left, had 50 vice presidents, and a org chart like a bowl of cappellini tossed in olive oil. Maybe Osama bin Laden offers generous retirement benefits to his #2’s? ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/27 "2008-10-17T05:59:12Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Maybe Osama bin Laden offers generous retirement benefits to his #2’s? 72 virgins and a gold pocketwatch? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/28 "2008-10-17T08:37:53Z")
Thanks for the Prisoner references. You do realize though, that… (on preview: note that this really is a spoiler for the show, not just a spoiler for a lame joke. Do not read if you intend to watch the show) …if you take it to its logical conclusion, then the conspiracy theories that Bush et al were the actual masterminds/participants of 911 fit like a glove. Of course there’s puffery involved – but even in a more structured organization you can have several and varying V.P.s or whatnot that can arguably be described as second in commands. As for overstating, I’m more sickened by the continual reference to the number of “insurgents” killed. No, I don’t doubt that a lot of them have been targets, but it always sounds so clean to say that after such-and-such a firefight, X number of insurgents were killed. I don’t know, sounds… contrived. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/29 "2008-10-17T09:09:13Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Ayman al-Zawahiri, often referred to as a #2, has been reported killed, but turned up alive, now they’re saying he may be dead again, but that’s not verified. > > [Ayman al-Zawahiri - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri) No wonder we’re killing so many #2s - we’re camping their spawn points! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/30 "2008-10-17T13:58:10Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Thanks for the Prisoner references. You do realize though, that… > (on preview: note that this really is a spoiler for the show, not just a spoiler for a lame joke. Do not read if you intend to watch the show) > > …if you take it to its logical conclusion, then the conspiracy theories that Bush et al were the actual masterminds/participants of 911 fit like a glove. Number 6: [referring to the chess game] Why do you use people? Chessmaster: Some psychiatrists say it satisfies the desire for power. 'the only opportunity one gets here. Number 6: That depends what side you’re on. Chessmaster: [quickly] I’m on my side. Number 6: [quickly] Aren’t we all. Chessmaster: You must be new here. In time, most of us join the enemy - against ourselves. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/31 "2008-10-17T14:04:27Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No wonder we’re killing so many #2s - we’re camping their spawn points! Win. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/32 "2008-10-17T14:07:19Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Please clean up after your terrorist! That was my first thought, on seeing the thread title! [Austin Powers] Who does Number Two work for? [/Austin Powers] ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/33 "2008-10-17T22:29:43Z")
The US government takes credit for capturing or killing al-Qaeda’s number three no fewer than five times already: Mohamed Atef aka Abu Hafs al-Masri in 2001 Khaled Sheikh Mohamed 2003 Abu Faraj al-Libi 2005 Hamza Rabi’a 2005 Abd-al-Hadi al-Iraqi 2006. That’s for greater al-Qaeda. This latest guy is the number two in al-Qaeda in Iraq. From [here](http://www.nctc.gov/site/profiles/capture.html). ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028/34 "2008-10-18T01:45:59Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The Close Door button is used when the elevator is on “independent service” or “manual” control. When it’s in that mode, the elevator will stay at a floor with the door open until you pick the floor you want to go to and hold the Close Door button until the door closes. It’s useful if you’re loading or unloading things. and it certainly does speed up door closing on **some** elevators (like the apartment building where I live). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-we-bagged-another-2/468028.md?page=1)