# Hey, what ever happened to monorails? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604 "2004-12-19T04:13:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jsleek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8dc957/32.png) [@jsleek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsleek)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604/41 "2004-12-21T05:13:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I would **not** want to ride a bus to work with sirens blasting in my ears. And how else could you make sure cars would get out of the bus’s way? In California you don’t want to run into a school bus. It would be an expensive lesson. If that protection were extended to all busses, the problem would solve itself. I dont ride the bus, so I don’t much care. But if you want people to prefer public to private transportation, you should support making busses a more tolerable ride. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604/42 "2004-12-21T08:30:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I would **not** want to ride a bus to work with sirens blasting in my ears. And how else could you make sure cars would get out of the bus’s way? Several bus routes near me are fitted with a GPS system, that switches traffic lights to green for them as they approach. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604/43 "2004-12-21T13:28:55Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Getting places in that town has _always_ been screwed up. What on earth is it with the belts? Do they really take you anywhere? Do they take you where things were twenty years ago? Do they possibly lead you right into the river, maybe? The belts are more of an abstract idea than a real system of roadways. There are 6 colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple. Red is farthest from the city and purple is closest. All the belts are what you would get by looking at a map and drawing a loop around the city by connecting bits and pieces of existing streets and highways. IOW, “constructing” the belts consisted of little more than putting up some signs. The idea behind the belt system was that they would be alternate routes and relieve congestion on I-376 and I-279. Whether they have actually done so is questionable, since the belts IME tend to be a rather tortorous way to get from point A to point B. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604/44 "2004-12-25T23:48:06Z")
Here’s something I found in the Wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monorail:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monorail:) > [@](#): > > Advantages: > > The primary advantage of monorails over conventional rail systems is that they require minimal space, both horizontally and vertically. The width required is determined by the monorail vehicle, not the track, and monorail systems are commonly elevated, requiring only a minimal footprint for support pillars. > > Due to a smaller footprint they are more attractive than conventional elevated rail lines and visually block only a minimal amount of sky. > > They are quieter, as modern monorails use rubber wheels on a concrete track > > Monorails are capable of climbing, descending and turning faster than most conventional rail systems. > > Monorails are safer than many forms of at-grade transportation, since the monorail wraps around its track and thus cannot derail and unlike a light rail system, there is minimal risk of colliding with traffic or pedestrians > > They cost less to construct and maintain, especially when compared to underground metro systems. > > Disadvantages: > > Monorails require their own guideway. > > While a monorail’s footprint is less than an elevated conventional rail system, it is larger than an underground system’s. > > A monorail switch by its very design will leave one track hanging in mid-air at any given time. While all rail switches suffer the same problem of having at least one input track not connected to an output track at any given time, only monorail and elevated rail vehicles have the additional risk of falling several meters to the ground in addition to the basic hazard of derailing. > > Most countries (apart from Japan) do not have standardized beam specifications for monorails, so most tend to be proprietary systems. > > In an emergency, passengers cannot immediately exit because the monorail vehicle usually sits on top of its rail and there is no ledge or railing to stand on. They must wait until a fire engine or a cherry picker comes to the rescue. If the monorail vehicle is on fire and rapidly filling with smoke, the passengers may face an unpleasant choice between jumping to the ground (and breaking bones in the process) or staying in the vehicle and risking suffocation. Newer monorail systems resolve this by building emergency walkways alongside the entire track. > > There are also some lingering concerns over the speed and capacity of monorails. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604/45 "2004-12-26T12:19:40Z")
I’d checked out that Wikipedia article before - the trouble with that list of pros & cons is that it compares them to underground systems and conventional railways, but not to light rail. And a couple of the ‘advantages’ are disingenuous - they have very tight turning circles beacuse they’re built with small capacities, and any system that doesn’t go near traffic or pedestrians won’t collide with them! ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604/46 "2004-12-27T09:05:52Z")
Las Vegas recently put in a monorail system (I’m surprised nobody has mentioned this yet). I haven’t heard much in the way of complaints. Most of what I’ve heard and read is that it is pretty popular and is working well. Besides, a $3 monorail ride sure beats a $20 cab ride. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604/47 "2004-12-27T09:10:51Z")
Sorry for the double post but here is a bit more info on the LV monorail. [Link](http://www.lvmonorail.com/about_04_fastfacts.html) > [@](#): > > How does the monorail benefit Las Vegas? > The system is electric and helps expand transit without impacting air quality. It will take more than 4.4 million automobile trips off the major roadways and reduce carbon monoxide by 135 tons per year. > > -snip- > > How is the monorail funded? > A $650 million financing plan that included bonds and contributions from resort properties along the alignment and the design-build contractors was developed. The monorail is 100% privately financed and will not use any tax money for building or on-going support > > -snip- > > Are there plans to extend the route? > Yes. We are currently working with the Regional Transportation Commission of Southern Nevada to extend the monorail to downtown (Fremont Street). We also plan on extending this system to McCarran Airport as well as extensions on the west side of the Strip. Our vision is to connect a majority of the hotels and convention facilities to the airport and government centers making it easier for both visitors and residents of Southern Nevada to move around in the Resort Corridor of Las Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604/48 "2004-12-27T15:49:03Z")
> [@Club 33](#): > > Sorry for the double post but here is a bit more info on the LV monorail. > > [Link](http://www.lvmonorail.com/about_04_fastfacts.html) One thing that site **doesn’t** tell us is how long the monorail has been in operation. Ridership is given in “projected” figures. Also, based on the route map, at present the line only connects Strip casino-hotels to other Strip casino-hotels and does not yet extend to the airport or downtown, although extensions are planned. Until they are built, it will be impossible to really evaluate the LV monorail as a viable mass-transit system. But it is interesting to see such forward thinking in what has been, up to now, perhaps the worst-planned and most automobile-dependent major city in America. From _The City in Mind,_ by James Howard Kunstler (The Free Press, 2001), chapter 5, “Las Vegas: Utopia of Clowns”: > [@](#): > > Originally there was downtown Las Vegas, platted in 1905 by the San Pedro, Los Angeles, and Salt Lake Railroad into forty three-hundred- by four-hundred-foot blocks, subdivided by alleys. This was a normal American urban grid pattern of the time, producing optimal frontages and building lots designed for rapid sale and easy development. The drawback, common in the American West, was a monotonous geometry unrelieved by focal points, terminal vistas, diagonal thoroughfares, or other grace notes of civic design – though one block at center was reserved for “public purpose” – say, a courthouse or a plaza. The streets, at eighty feet, were uniformly too wide to produce a pleasing ratio of spatial enclosure – another common western practice. They were designed to permit horse-drawn wagons to turn around without circling an entire block. (This was a cultural carryover from earlier times that would shortly be obsolete; 1905 was only two years before Ford’s introduction of the Model T.) > > \ > > The modern, post-World War Two Las Vegas of the famous Strip, Highway 604, now Las Vegas Boulevard, lies wholly outside of the incorporated town and its original grid. It is under the jurisdiction of the Clark County. The Strip developed where it did for several reasons: Taxes on gambling and hotel rooms were lower outside the city proper, desert land outside town was very cheap, and the bulk of visiting thrill-seekers arrived by car from Los Angeles, a seven-hour drive then, four hours nowadays, and they expected the usual autocentric amenities associated with L.A. life – that is, parking, parking, parking. The El Rancho Vegas, Siegel’s Flamingo, the mob’s Desert Inn, the Frontier, the Sand, the Sahara, Riviera, Dunes, Stardust, Aladdin, Tropicana, and so on were thus deployed at half-mile intervals along the highway to provide a certain cushioning separation between establishments. . . . > > By the late 1960s, the desert to both the east and west of the Strip began to fill in with houses and apartments for the ever-growing population of hotel and casino workers and with el cheapo shopping plazas to service the houses. The Strip runs basically north-south, with a slight northeast dogleg halfway up. The major east-west arteries were named after the casinos that occupied each regular interval of the Strip: Sahara Avenue, Desert Inn Drive, Flamingo Road, Tropicana Avenue. The problem from an urbanist’s point of view was that this pattern for future development was based on blocks one-half-mile square – in some cases even a mile square – with six-, eight-, and ten-lane streets between them. Buildings went up along the edges of these blocks but the deep interiors of the blocks did not necessarily ever develop. . . . > > \ > > . . . [T]he distances between things in Las Vegas were so vast, the scale so exaggerated (even by West Coast standars), and the heat so punishing, that the automobile became an indispensable prosthetic organ. For instance, it was just five blocks from the Tropicana Hotel to the Liberace Museum. It didn’t look like much on the rent-a-car map. But in reality it was a trip of nearly three miles down a ten-lane boulevard without continuous sidewalks, past innumerable strip-mall parking lagoons, chain-link fences, berms, hydrological earthworks, filling stations, and other unimaginably tedious landforms, in blaring sunlight that could elevate the ground temperature to above 125 degrees. Lawrence of Arabia would not undertake such a trek. I sure hope the monorail helps. Time will tell. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-what-ever-happened-to-monorails/280604.md?page=2)