# Hey, you, yeah, you the selfish jerk! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840 "2005-12-22T18:52:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/21 "2005-12-22T22:09:51Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Okay, 'scool, then :). I think maybe I was conflating your view with **fetus** ’s view that ignoring no smoking signs was perfectly kosher; as long as you recognize that that’s not okay, I got no beef with you. The thing is there are so many of the signs that sometimes it’s hard to know what to do. There a street near here where, if you follow the signs literally, you have to cross the street about 4 times in the space of walking down about 200 feet of it. Then at one point the only legal thing to do is to walk down the middle of the street. For health reasons, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/22 "2005-12-22T22:13:56Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > The thing is there are so many of the signs that sometimes it’s hard to know what to do. There a street near here where, if you follow the signs literally, you have to cross the street about 4 times in the space of walking down about 200 feet of it. Then at one point the only legal thing to do is to walk down the middle of the street. For health reasons, mind you. Isn’t it legal to put out the cigarette? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/23 "2005-12-22T22:14:02Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > For your information, we prefer to be called “pro-breath”. Sir, I salute you. > [@](#): > > And it’s not exaggerated. I _might_ have a compunction to expose (or risk exposing) people to toxins that’s as compulsory as your nicotine addiction. I can’t see inside your head to know how strong your compulsion is – neither can you dismiss mine. So I guess you prefer not to drive, fly, or use any hydrocarbon-based public transport too, to keep those around you pure of health? No coal-based electricity for you? > [@](#): > > Yours isn’t. Yet it gets defended as a right. Blame Sir Walter Raleigh, or the American Indians from whom it was stolen, for making it an unpleasant aspect of the society that you share with us addicts. > [@](#): > > Smokers typically have reduced senses of smell. In my experience, they often are surprised when I can detect their smoke. I assume they’re not stupid – feel free to assert otherwise – so my best guess is that they think the smell “rises and leaves” efficiently. It doesn’t. Not very well. Are you saying that walking past a part of the sidewalk where I’ve been smoking, a minute later, and you’ll be able to smell the smoke? If so, you’re very gifted. > [@](#): > > Okay, how about _right next to_ someone? Personally I’d go out of my way to avoid standing near anyone who objected to cigarette smoke. But even if you were in such a situation, that exposure _is not going to kill you_, despite your subsequent claims. You might not like the smell of burning leaves, and nor do I, but really, show me citations that very occasional exposure, outdoors, to a tiny amount of cigarette smoke, will cause you ill health. > [@](#): > > Cancer (only one of the hazards of cigarette smoke) is unpredictable – the cellular change that starts it is like a stray bullet hitting something critical , a million-to-one shot. No one knows exactly when a particular case is started; no one knows whether a little exposure or a lot will start _a particular given case_. It is known that sometimes a little exposure does, and sometimes a lot does not. For you to claim that the amount I’m exposed to is insignificant seems to be asserting special knowledge. You’re exposed to thousands of carcinogens on a daily basis. That theoretical “million-to-one shot” you’re talking about, with respect to tobacco smoke, needs to be compared to all the other "million-to-one shot"s you’re exposed to. Perhaps you will join me in my campaign to ban Saran Wrap? In seriousness, you appear to be verging on the hysterical about this subject. It’s unpleasant, I admit, but it’s not as bad as you’re making out. Our direct antecedents were exposed to second-hand cigarette smoke on a daily basis, and most of them seem to be doing fine. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/24 "2005-12-22T22:17:23Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Are you saying that walking past a part of the sidewalk where I’ve been smoking, a minute later, and you’ll be able to smell the smoke? If so, you’re very gifted. I dunno: on a still day, I’m pretty sure I could, and my nose isn’t especially sensitive. I **like** walking through a cloud of cigarette smoke sometimes, especially on a cold winter day; its fragrance is warm and roasty and nice. But I can certainly smell it strongly. And I’m not really sympathetic toward people who ignore No Smoking signs just because it’s so hard for them to find somewhere to smoke; comments about calling a Waaaahmbulance come to mind. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/25 "2005-12-22T22:30:20Z")
**Mr Dorkness** , I seriously doubt that, even on a still day, a minute later you would ever know that one of the afflicted had been there. But I do realise we’re way down most people’s pity list. The point of my posts is not to justify inconsiderate smokers, but to try to argue that many of the supposed threats presented by the “bro-breath” (good grief!) crowd are absurdly exaggerated. And also to reinforce that for someone who absolutely has to satisfy their vaguely-societally-acceptable craving, sometimes it can be awfully tricky to find somewhere that it is allowed. Particularly in places that place an absurdly large exclusion zone from the premises, which often intersect with other exclusion zones. That still doesn’t justify people who lean on no-smoking signs to smoke, or smoke in subway elevators. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/26 "2005-12-22T22:36:50Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > **Mr Dorkness** , I seriously doubt that, even on a still day, a minute later you would ever know that one of the afflicted had been there. You might be right. It’d be an interesting experiment. Someone was right earlier when they pointed out that smoking really stunts your sense of smell, though: what the world smells like to us non-smokers is very different from what it smells like to you smokers, as I understand it. (Sometime I’ll tell my Cuban cigar anecdote–it’s my firsthand experience with this phenomenon). > [@](#): > > That still doesn’t justify people who lean on no-smoking signs to smoke, or smoke in subway elevators. Well, I’m not wayyyy anti-smoking. I dated an asthmatic woman once who really **could not** be around smokers, but like I said, I kinda like the smell of fresh cigarette smoke (the old stuff, like in a smoker’s car, is horrifically vile). I like to sit in the no-smoking section at restaurants only because the smoking section has the smell of old smoke in it; if it were all fresh-smoke smell, I’d probalby like to sit there. But I know that the world does have asthmatics in it, and the research on secondhand smoking is pretty unresolved at this point as near as I can tell. So I think folks ought to respect the no-smoking signs. If you do, then I really have no beef with you. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/27 "2005-12-22T22:36:51Z")
I’m jsut not sympathetic to this “hey, I can’t find a place to smoke” whine. And I’m a guy who likes to have a nice fat cigar most days. If you can’t find a place to smoke, then don’t smoke, or go in your car and roll up the windows. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/28 "2005-12-22T22:45:28Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m jsut not sympathetic to this “hey, I can’t find a place to smoke” whine. And I’m a guy who likes to have a nice fat cigar most days. If you can’t find a place to smoke, **then don’t smoke** , or go in your car and roll up the windows. My highlight illustrates the problem. We can’t _not_. We’re pathetic. Actually, in review, what I’m really trying to say to people like **Sailboat** is: don’t alienate those amongst the addicts who attempt to be considerate. You’ll only create more militant assholes if you do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/29 "2005-12-22T22:49:27Z")
I thought \*\*Sailboat \*\*had a legitimate response to **fetus** ’ post that no smoking signs mean “jack shit”. Didn’t sound to me like he ( **fetus** ) was trying to be considerate. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/30 "2005-12-22T22:54:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I thought \*\*Sailboat \*\*had a legitimate response to **fetus** ’ post that no smoking signs mean “jack shit”. Didn’t sound to me like he ( **fetus** ) was trying to be considerate. Yes, I concede you have a good point. I do maintain, however, that **Sailboat** did it in a tremendously inflammatory (no pun intended) manner. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/31 "2005-12-22T23:39:21Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > For your information, we prefer to be called “pro-breath”. And it’s not exaggerated. I _might_ have a compunction to expose (or risk exposing) people to toxins that’s as compulsory as your nicotine addiction. I can’t see inside your head to know how strong your compulsion is – neither can you dismiss mine. > > What part of my theoretical addiction to exposing you to poison makes it less a “right” than your addiction to exposing me to poison? I hope you’re not going to drive a car anywhere close to me and expose me to exhausts. And I expect you to never stay close to a wood fire, a barbeque, etc… and their toxic and carcinogenic smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/32 "2005-12-22T23:55:52Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > [The point of my posts is not to justify inconsiderate smokers, but to try to argue that many of the supposed threats presented by the “bro-breath” (good grief!) crowd are absurdly exaggerated. I feel like I say this in every smoking thread on the SDMB, but here goes (again): cancer is not the only issue with second-hand smoke. In fact, I wouldn’t particularly worry about cancer from second hand smoke unless there was serious exposure - a waitress in a smoking section or a bartender or something. Much more serious, and as far as I’m aware, is that even incidental second-hand smoke can be a serious asthma trigger. The #1 best way to cause my breathing to become laboured is exposure to smoke, as is also true for my mother. I’ll immediately start to cough if I get a whiff of passing smoke, and if I stay in a smoky bar for an hour, I’ll wheeze for several. It’s a fact of life and I accept it, but if there are no-smoking signs outside the door for my workplace, which I must walk by on a daily basis, it would be great if people didn’t smoke there. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/33 "2005-12-23T00:05:53Z")
What really annoys me is - they took smoking out of our building. Good. But, then they took away the smoking hut. WTF? So, instead of a nice little glass room that the smokers could be in, (with a large open doorway to vent) they know get to stand outside in the cold. The only place for them to be is blocking the only entrance. And that’s where they put their ashtrays. It’s not their fault. Why couldn’t you at least move the smoking hut somewhere? And I don’t smoke and don’t like inconsiderate smokers. But at least in this case, they’ve been driven to it! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/34 "2005-12-23T00:17:17Z")
> [@Helen's Eidolon](#): > > if there are no-smoking signs outside the door for my workplace, which I must walk by on a daily basis, it would be great if people didn’t smoke there. I agree with you, and I don’t doubt your medical condition, but I must say, it’s only - and I genuinely mean this - on the SDMB that I’ve ever encountered this particular trigger. I’ve never ever heard of this on this side of the pond. Do other forms of smoke trigger you? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/35 "2005-12-23T00:23:03Z")
**Anaamika** , thank you for being understanding about some of the nonsense we’re subjected to. I should add by way of solidarity, **Helen’s Eidolon** , that I’m an athsmatic too (a pack-a-day one - sensible, no?) and my trigger is puréed garlic, but unfortunately you can’t predict, nor legislate, against that. ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/36 "2005-12-23T01:44:04Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I agree with you, and I don’t doubt your medical condition, but I must say, it’s only - and I genuinely mean this - on the SDMB that I’ve ever encountered this particular trigger. I’ve never ever heard of this on this side of the pond. Do other forms of smoke trigger you? My personal thoughts is that it is the additives in the cigarettes. wood smoke doesn’t bother me near as much as cigarettes as long as the wood smoke isn’t in my face. Cigarettes on the the other hand bother me anywhere in the vicinity, can’t stand to be around incense either. I grew up with 2 heavy smokers in the house and always thought I was allergic, I have been told since that smoke is an irritant not an allergen. I do know that even if Iam not conscious of the smoke, I will soon not be able to breathe if there is a cigarette nearby. I used to work in a retail store and there was an ashtray the other side of my register, I would realise that my nose had stuffed up completly and sure enough there would be a cigarette in left burning in the ashtray. ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/37 "2005-12-23T01:46:16Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Yes, I concede you have a good point. I do maintain, however, that Sailboat did it in a tremendously inflammatory (no pun intended) manner. True dat. **Sailboat** is a whingeing, obnoxious choad. _“Pro-breath”?_, give me a fucking break. I think the late, great, Bill Hicks summed up my feelings best when he said: “I’ve realised that there is only one reason why I continue to smoke and that is…_spite_. I _hate_ you non smokers with all my little black heart. I swear, I’d quit if I didn’t think I’d become one of you fucking people”. And no, I do not smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/38 "2005-12-23T01:47:24Z")
As it happens, at the entrance in question, there is a smoker’s hut not 4 metres away. But they don’t use it. Truthfully, when I’m in PA, I’ve absolutely never been troubled by smoke when it wasn’t a situation I knew to expect it (ie, bars). Montreal, on the other hand… _wheeze_ **jjimm** , some kinds do, some don’t. Hookah smoke doesn’t, nor does pot (unless it’s cut with lots of cigarette tobacco). Cigar smoke is worse than cigarette smoke. I’m sure it’s the additives rather than the actual tobacco. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/39 "2005-12-23T02:28:57Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > You might be right. It’d be an interesting experiment. Someone was right earlier when they pointed out that smoking really stunts your sense of smell, though: what the world smells like to us non-smokers is very different from what it smells like to you smokers, as I understand it. Former smoker here, so I know both sides of the olfactory fence, and it’s true that when you smoke your sense of smell is blunted, and you have no idea of how pungent you are. It’s not just the burning cigarette’s fumes, either – there’s a definite odor that clings to smokers’ clothing and hair. When I used to ride commuter trains regularly, I could always detect a smoker sitting in the row ahead of or behind me by the reek of stale smoke. It’s also true that, in my experience, where the air is still the aroma of smoke lingers. It doesn’t immediately disappear when the visible cloud does. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840/40 "2005-12-23T04:23:19Z")
> [@fetus](#): > > So many places put “No Smoking” signs up where it doesn’t make any difference whether you smoke, that us smokers have learned to ignore them (here in California, anyway; can’t speak for other states or countries). Really? You don’t think there’s a particular reason for the subway to put those things up there? Perhaps there’s a law requiring it even? > [@](#): > > It’s basically to the point that we have to bring a referee and a lawyer to find a place to light up. Near a vent? Put up a sign that says “Do not smoke here because there is a vent nearby and you will stink up the building.” Otherwise, “No Smoking” means jack shit. Or perhaps you’d just honor the signs that are placed where they are. Instead of satisfying your own selfish desires, you could respect the rights of others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-you-yeah-you-the-selfish-jerk/336840.md?page=3)