# Hey! you're cloning your characters, Mr. Writer! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510 "2006-07-14T18:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/21 "2006-07-14T21:50:43Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Wait…when’d Fred pine after Angel, then? I thought, actually, you’d both gotten Fred and Will backwards when you were making the list and accidentally swapped Angel for Xander, since Fred did spend most of the time between when they got put in charge of WRH and when Illyria ate her soul trying to get Wes to notice her. > > I remember her hero-worshipping him a bit early on, but I don’t remember her ever pining after him. I was referring to that period, which lasted about half the 3rd season, if I recall aright. Actually, looking back over my list, I see that most of the traits I listed are common to only two of the three–but which two varied. (I won’t count being hot; that’s almost a requirement for being on TV, and is a matter of opinion anyway. I mean, there are probably some people–insane people, but people nonetheless–who think Charisma Carpenter and Sarah Michelle Gellar are better looking than Alyson Hannigan OR Amy Hacker. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/22 "2006-07-14T21:52:20Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > IAmy **Hacker**. 😕 Or even Amy Acker. ---
**Author:** ![Blanche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Blanche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blanche)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/23 "2006-07-15T03:44:52Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > Or even Amy Acker. Steven Barnes tends to write himself into every novel he contributes to…just look for the diminutive black badass. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/24 "2006-07-15T03:53:32Z")
I think you might be able to add Kitty Pryde to Joss’s similar characters list. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/25 "2006-07-15T04:04:24Z")
It’s been years since I’ve read a **Wilbur Smith** novel, so I can’t name names, but I remember having the selfsame thought about his characters. ---
**Author:** ![Taran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Taran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taran)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/26 "2006-07-15T04:11:47Z")
Nah, Kitty was like that when he got there. Pat Conroy is really bad this way. You’ve got your abusive father, your son who plays basketball (or football! That’s _very different_!), your woman who refuses to face the shitty reality of rher situation (usually, but not always, the protagonist’s mother), your unconventional teacher who calls people names and who everyone loves, and a male main character: a cowardly jock English major or proto-English major. It’s a good thing I like Pat Conroy’s favorite plot, because he uses it every damn time. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/27 "2006-07-15T04:28:03Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > I think you might be able to add Kitty Pryde to Joss’s similar characters list. Hmm… Well, on the one hand he didn’t create Kitty; she far predates his tenure on the X-men… And she doesn’t have much of a dark side, unless you count her experiences with Ogun, but nobody ever talks about her ninja skills any more, not even Joss. On the other, the beautiful-but-doesn’t-know-it-because-she’s-overshadowed-by-a-more-flamboyant-friend bit–hell, Kitty INVENTED it. And she’s an early cute technogeek as well. I think Kitty and Kaylee would be friends, likewise Kitty and Fred. But Willow would set off her bad mojo spider-sense. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/28 "2006-07-15T04:34:11Z")
> [@Taran](#): > > Nah, Kitty was like that when he got there. > > Pat Conroy is really bad this way. You’ve got your abusive father, your son who plays basketball (or football! That’s _very different_!), your woman who refuses to face the shitty reality of rher situation (usually, but not always, the protagonist’s mother), your unconventional teacher who calls people names and who everyone loves, and a male main character: a cowardly jock English major or proto-English major. It’s a good thing I like Pat Conroy’s favorite plot, because he uses it every damn time. Largely but not entirely true; I assume you’re talking about _Lords of Discipline, The Great Santini, Prince of Tides_, and _Beach Music_. Will McLean’s father may have been a protypical Conroy abusive military man or vet, but he’s not a character in _The Lords of Discipline_. Also, I think Will’s the only one of the four main characters whose an out & out coward; the others are just overshadowed by the more powerful friends. On the other hand, Jordan Elliot from **Beach** , Luke Wingo from **Prince** , and Mark Santoro from _Lords_ are all much closer variations on a theme. Oddly, Pat has more variety in his love interests. Susan Lowenstein isn’t much like Annie Kate Gervais who isn’t much like Shyla or Ansley. I can’t even imagine those women being friends–well, Susan and Ansley, but no other two. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/29 "2006-07-15T15:01:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Piers Anthony is terrible at this. I think he has about five characters, that he just sticks different names on. Most of his characters aren’t really enough of a character to say he is reusing, but indeed. At some point in the last decade he added the thirteen or fourteen year old black girl that everyone for a square mile wants to throw down and have passionate sex with. Trying to envision what prompted this exact character is pretty guaranteed to squick me out. ---
**Author:** ![merrily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@merrily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrily)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/30 "2006-07-15T15:32:36Z")
Tolstoy uses a lot of the same characters in \*War and Peace \* and in _Anna Karenina_. I reread them after a number of years, and was astonished to find out all my favorite W&P moments were in the other book. :smack: Dostoyevsky reuses characters, but not so considerably. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/31 "2006-07-15T16:47:41Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > Most of his characters aren’t really enough of a character to say he is reusing, but indeed. He did a decent–for him, anywhistle–job in creating Stile in the _Apprentice Adept_ trilogy. Yes, I wrote TRILOGY. There were no books after the third one. None whatsoever. UNICORN POINT and its ilk were all hallucinations. You guys have got to get off the smack. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/32 "2006-07-15T16:59:00Z")
Dean Koontz. Are all his protagonists ex-special forces guys with an inheritance so they don’t need a job? And girl friends are invariably incapable of having children, so as not to distract from the frequent, passionate sex. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/33 "2006-07-15T16:59:30Z")
John Irving manages to put essentially the same female character in most of his books. Tough, tomboyish, not-quite-attractive (but the main character always wants her, whether or not she’s family), and assertive/aggressive. Melony in _The Cider House Rules_, Hester in _A Prayer for Owen Meany_, and Franny in _The Hotel New Hampshire_ are three that come to mind right now - it’s been a while since I’ve read his other stuff, so I may be forgetting some. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/34 "2006-07-15T17:02:03Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > Hmm… > > Well, on the one hand he didn’t create Kitty; she far predates his tenure on the X-men… > > And she doesn’t have much of a dark side, unless you count her experiences with Ogun, but nobody ever talks about her ninja skills any more, not even Joss. > > On the other, the beautiful-but-doesn’t-know-it-because-she’s-overshadowed-by-a-more-flamboyant-friend bit–hell, Kitty INVENTED it. And she’s an early cute technogeek as well. I think Kitty and Kaylee would be friends, likewise Kitty and Fred. But Willow would set off her bad mojo spider-sense. I think that was maybe **Revenant** ’s point. Whedon is a huge, huge Kitty fanboy and her character probably served as a basis for some of his own. And, also, how’re you going to talk about Joss and not mention the goofy and loyal male sidekick? Wash and Xander are the same person. Him. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/35 "2006-07-15T17:39:02Z")
Heck, this phenomenon goes back to Gilbert and Sullivan - perhaps even to Shakespeare ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/36 "2006-07-15T17:51:33Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I think that was maybe **Revenant** ’s point. Whedon is a huge, huge Kitty fanboy and her character probably served as a basis for some of his own. > > And, also, how’re you going to talk about Joss and not mention the goofy and loyal male sidekick? Wash and Xander are the same person. Him. Er. I think Xander is an asshole for at least the first three seasons. I didn’t find him loveable at all. He redeemed himself in my eyes by the end of the series but he had a long way to come from. I think Wash has some insecurities but they never lead him to act nearly as selfishly and downright evilly as Xander. Still haven’t forgiven Xander for lying to Buffy about Angel’s soul. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/37 "2006-07-15T18:04:22Z")
I can’t believe we’re at post #36 and Nobody’s mentioned **Dan Brown** or **Clive Cussler**. I’ve read one cussler book and saw one cussler movie and _know_ I’ve pretty much read 'em all. I read _five_ of Brown’s books (read one, bought the others before reading a second) They’re ALL the same. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/38 "2006-07-15T18:05:40Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I think that was maybe **Revenant** ’s point. Yeah, but I wrote my post before reading his. > [@](#): > > Whedon is a huge, huge Kitty fanboy and her character probably served as a basis for some of his own. Shows taste! Now that I think on it, some of Kitty’s late 80s’-early 90s’ musings about Rachel Summers and Illyana Rasputin could easily have been put in Willow’s mouth later. [quote] And, also, how’re you going to talk about Joss and not mention the goofy and loyal male sidekick? [/quote Because I wanted to leave somethine for the rest of y’all to talk about? > [@](#): > > Wash and Xander are the same person. Him. Hmm…what evidence have you that Joss based Wash & Xander upon himself? I’m not contesting, just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/39 "2006-07-15T18:07:01Z")
> [@Unintentionally Blank](#): > > I can’t believe we’re at post #36 and Nobody’s mentioned **Dan Brown** or **Clive Cussler**. > > I’ve read one cussler book and saw one cussler movie and _know_ I’ve pretty much read 'em all. > > I read _five_ of Brown’s books (read one, bought the others before reading a second) They’re ALL the same. Why on EARTH would you put yourself through that? Are you a masochist? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510/40 "2006-07-15T18:09:17Z")
> [@Idlewild](#): > > Er. I think Xander is an asshole for at least the first three seasons. I didn’t find him loveable at all. He redeemed himself in my eyes by the end of the series but he had a long way to come from. I think Wash has some insecurities but they never lead him to act nearly as selfishly and downright evilly as Xander. > > Still haven’t forgiven Xander for lying to Buffy about Angel’s soul. I think things would have turned out horribly had he done otherwise … Buffy would have not gone for the kill had she had hope, and she’d have lost that battle. Angel would have been restored just in time to see her dead body at his feet. How else did Xander act evilly? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-youre-cloning-your-characters-mr-writer/364510.md?page=3)