# Hi, Dio! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910 "2008-11-21T21:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/21 "2008-11-21T22:16:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Really? How so. If people are allowed to have their own opinions about one thing, they might start having their own opinions about everything? This is just so odd. I have read your posts for years and for the most part you seem pretty smart. I am boggled that you seem to be unable to see the nuances involved here. Take away the whole (to you) ooky sex part of this issue for a moment. Do you really believe that a group of people (or sub culture) should not be allowed to determine how they define their own relationships and to define what is and is not acceptable language in discussing what they do? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/22 "2008-11-21T22:18:25Z")
Well, I’m with Dio on this one… For better or worse, these activities are considered sexual in origin. It seems ridiculous to me that those involved in it would get so worked up about it being considered a prostitute/john situation. Aren’t they all for free love and letting go your inhibitions? Doesn’t that include prostitution? I’m all for legalization of this and all other types of sex for money situations, so don’t think I’m lumping you into a “bad crowd.” And, I agree that your attitude about the use of “prostitution” makes you seem like you consider yourself “above” a mere hooker. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/23 "2008-11-21T22:21:08Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > You said it yourself, **Dio** : you do not understand this culture. Why do you keep insisting that your uninformed opinion is as valid as an informed one? > > Please remember that you don’t get to decide how other people are allowed to view your opinion. I promise, I’m, not trying to be obtuse (or whatever) but could you explain how “dildo training” is not sexual in nature? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/24 "2008-11-21T22:23:33Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > This is just so odd. I have read your posts for years and for the most part you seem pretty smart. I am boggled that you seem to be unable to see the nuances involved here. Take away the whole (to you) ooky sex part of this issue for a moment. Do you really believe that a group of people (or sub culture) should not be allowed to determine how they define their own relationships and to define what is and is not acceptable language in discussing what they do? Really? They can can use whatever terminology or distinctions they want. That doesn’t mean I have to see it the same way or agree to the same distinctions. Some people think porn actors are prostitutes. I don’t, but those people who do have a right to see it that way if they want to. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/25 "2008-11-21T22:27:25Z")
See, I don’t think you are hearing me here. No one is saying that you can’t see the world any way that you want (though I have to be honest I am baffled that a porn star is not a prostitute in your mind but somehow a dominatrix is). Leaving that to the side, the point is that people that are a part of the Dom/sub subculture have expressed a preference that you not use that term. So I guess that in the same way that you might think “nigger” or “faggot” but have the minimum social grace to not call someone that, I am suggesting that you drop your whole prostitute/hooker thing. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/26 "2008-11-21T22:31:18Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I promise, I’m, not trying to be obtuse (or whatever) but could you explain how “dildo training” is not sexual in nature? I’ll try. Now’s a good time to reiterate that I am a dom, but not a sadist, so I’m talking through my hat a bit on this. Given the extended silence from this thread’s OP, I’m guessing she’s AFK for a bit, so I’ll go ahead and try. Dominance/submission, which is all I can speak to really\*, is not, at it’s core, about sex. It’s about power. When I spank my babygirl, I do it not because she gets off on it (she doesn’t) or because I get off on it (I don’t)but because she needs to be punished for something. It’s my reminding her that I am in charge of her on whatever issue has resulted in the spanking. When I tie her up, it’s not because she gets off on it (she doesn’t) or because I get off on it (I don’t), it’s because she sometimes needs to be able to let go of control of her life in a way that she achieves through being tied up. She relinquishes control of her life (literally) to me. If I tie her up and leave the house, what if the house burns down? Even if I don’t leave, what if I have a coronary? What if she has a coronary? It’s a power exchange that lets her relax parts of her mind that she can’t otherwise. By knowing that I am in total control of her and will take care of her. Now, to your question: “dildo training” isn’t called “anal sex” for a reason: it’s not about sex. It’s about training. Training the sub to take what the Dom does to them without question and without resistance. It’s the power exchange that it’s about. The sub drops the inhibitions and gives power over that aspect of their life to the Dom. And let me say, I understand the confusion. I only learned earlier this year where I fit into all of this. Before that, I just thought I was sick. 😉 \*I’m also not much for B&D, despite references to spanking and tying up. They’re necessary evils, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/27 "2008-11-21T22:32:31Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > See, I don’t think you are hearing me here. No one is saying that you can’t see the world any way that you want (though I have to be honest I am baffled that a porn star is not a prostitute in your mind but somehow a dominatrix is). Leaving that to the side, the point is that people that are a part of the Dom/sub subculture have expressed a preference that you not use that term. So I guess that in the same way that you might think “nigger” or “faggot” but have the minimum social grace to not call someone that, I am suggesting that you drop your whole prostitute/hooker thing. I think that’s a ridiculous comparison, with all due respect. I also think that anyone who is going to shove dildoes up men’s asses for money is going to have to grow a thick skin about being called a prostitute. And what do they thing is wrong with prostitution anyway? It does sound like they think regular prostitutes are beneath them. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/28 "2008-11-21T22:39:13Z")
Personally I think **Dio’s** real bullshit in the thread is when he says that the prostitute has no say in the sexual encounter. The paying customer is always right. > [@Savage Love Column -- Who Was Out of Line?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savage-love-column-who-was-out-of-line/473818/74): > > I think it’s laughable to compare it to a class. There are no other students. There’s nothing “dangerous” going on. It’s just a sex game. He’s paying for the time, and the time is his to do with as he sees fit. She’s there to follow his agenda, he’s not there to follow hers. Jesus that’s some scary fucking way of thinking there. I’m surprised more people haven’t taken issue with it. If the paying customer suddenly wants to change the nature of the sale to something the prostitute doesn’t want. Well fuck her she’s just there for his agenda. The John’s not buying some vague fuck-time in which he has the right to do whatever he wants with her. He bought a specific service she was offering in this case he’s there to be dominated and if he changes his mind wanting to alter the deal half way through and she doesn’t like it well he’s the one who loses out. Though I do say I think Dan Savage was wrong about the issue. The sub asked for some proof the dildo was clean. Big fucking whoop that’s not topping from the bottom no matter how many Domme’s are getting their panties in a twist over it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/29 "2008-11-21T22:39:25Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > See, I don’t think you are hearing me here. No one is saying that you can’t see the world any way that you want (though I have to be honest I am baffled that a porn star is not a prostitute in your mind but somehow a dominatrix is). Leaving that to the side, the point is that people that are a part of the Dom/sub subculture have expressed a preference that you not use that term. So I guess that in the same way that you might think “nigger” or “faggot” but have the minimum social grace to not call someone that, I am suggesting that you drop your whole prostitute/hooker thing. This part I’m not sure I understand. Is “prostitute” a pejorative term? I always assumed it was a more or less neutral description of a person who exchanges money for performing personal services of a sexual nature. The reason we don’t call people “niggers” or “faggots” is because we all know these are intended to be pejorative terms. I suppose the equivalent here would be “whore”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/30 "2008-11-21T22:44:51Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > Personally I think **Dio’s** real bullshit in the thread is when he says that the prostitute has no say in the sexual encounter. The paying customer is always right.Jesus that’s some scary fucking way of thinking there. I’m surprised more people haven’t taken issue with it. If the paying customer suddenly wants to change the nature of the sale to something the prostitute doesn’t want. Well fuck her she’s just there for his agenda. > > The John’s not buying some vague fuck-time in which he has the right to do whatever he wants with her. He bought a specific service she was offering in this case he’s there to be dominated and if he changes his mind wanting to alter the deal half way through and she doesn’t like it well he’s the one who loses out. What I meant by that was not that he is entitled to do anything to the prostitute that he wants, but that he doesn’t have to everything SHE wants. I’m not saying she should have to do anything she doesn’t want, but that he doesn’t have to anything HE doesn’t want. He doesn’t have to play the whole scene if he doesn’t want. He can read a book if he feels like it. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/31 "2008-11-21T22:46:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What I meant by that was not that he is entitled to do anything to the prostitute that he wants, but that he doesn’t have to everything SHE wants. I’m not saying she should have to do anything she doesn’t want, but that he doesn’t have to anything HE doesn’t want. He doesn’t have to play the whole scene if he doesn’t want. He can read a book if he feels like it. Yep. And she can terminate the business relationship. Which she did. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/32 "2008-11-21T22:46:46Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > See, I don’t think you are hearing me here. No one is saying that you can’t see the world any way that you want (though I have to be honest I am baffled that a porn star is not a prostitute in your mind but somehow a dominatrix is). Leaving that to the side, the point is that people that are a part of the Dom/sub subculture have expressed a preference that you not use that term. So I guess that in the same way that you might think “nigger” or “faggot” but have the minimum social grace to not call someone that, I am suggesting that you drop your whole prostitute/hooker thing. The black person’s not saying he not a nigger, just that the word is no longer acceptable. A gay person doesn’t deny being a faggot, just asks that you not use that hurtful word. So does that mean a Dom is likewise asking for a vocabulary switch while accepting the veracity of the (to them) hurtful word? I have no problem believing that, for some people, sexual gratification is not a part of the paid dominatrix experience. But for those dominatrixes who facillitate sexual pleasure or release, “prostitute” is a perfectly applicable word. Ditto on massage therapists - we’re not all prostitutes as we don’t all facilitate sexual pleasure, but those who do are prostitutes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/33 "2008-11-21T22:46:54Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Yep. And she can terminate the business relationship. Which she did. Which was rude, since all he asked for was proof that her equipment was clean. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/34 "2008-11-21T22:50:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Which was rude, since all he asked for was proof that her equipment was clean. Equipment that was not being used. Like I’ve said in the other thread about this, I would ask too if I were him. But I would not have done it in the way that he did. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/35 "2008-11-21T22:51:41Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > I mentioned this in the other thread but think that it is worth reiterating here. The people involved in this subculture do not define this as prostitution and have made clear in no uncertain terms that this is so. To continue to use this (charged) term is pretty insulting and obtuse. What does that matter? I don’t care how _they_ define what they do, they don’t have any right to prescribe the terms I use to describe them. Just because they don’t like being called prostitutes doesn’t mean it is isn’t true. Greedy, opportunistic lawyers don’t like being called ambulance chasers either (or even “greedy, opportunistic lawyers”). Tough shit - their opinion doesn’t change reality. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/36 "2008-11-21T23:00:32Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > What does that matter? I don’t care how _they_ define what they do, they don’t have any right to prescribe the terms I use to describe them. Just because they don’t like being called prostitutes doesn’t mean it is isn’t true. > > Greedy, opportunistic lawyers don’t like being called ambulance chasers either (or even “greedy, opportunistic lawyers”). Tough shit - their opinion doesn’t change reality. Please see my first post in this thread for one answer as to “why it matters.” If **Chefguy** were in here, would you say it was okay to (essentially) call him a “burger flipper”? If **Rick** were in here, would it be okay to (essentially) call him a “pump jock”? Note to **A Priori Tea** : I know you don’t need me to defend your honor. Tough titty. I’m a daddy dom. It’s part of my makeup. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/37 "2008-11-21T23:01:15Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I’ll try. Now’s a good time to reiterate that I am a dom, but not a sadist, so I’m talking through my hat a bit on this. Given the extended silence from this thread’s OP, I’m guessing she’s AFK for a bit, so I’ll go ahead and try. > > Dominance/submission, which is all I can speak to really\*, is not, at it’s core, about sex. It’s about power. When I spank my babygirl, I do it not because she gets off on it (she doesn’t) or because I get off on it (I don’t)but because she needs to be punished for something. It’s my reminding her that I am in charge of her on whatever issue has resulted in the spanking. When I tie her up, it’s not because she gets off on it (she doesn’t) or because I get off on it (I don’t), it’s because she sometimes needs to be able to let go of control of her life in a way that she achieves through being tied up. She relinquishes control of her life (literally) to me. If I tie her up and leave the house, what if the house burns down? Even if I don’t leave, what if I have a coronary? What if she has a coronary? It’s a power exchange that lets her relax parts of her mind that she can’t otherwise. By knowing that I am in total control of her and will take care of her. > > Now, to your question: “dildo training” isn’t called “anal sex” for a reason: it’s not about sex. It’s about training. Training the sub to take what the Dom does to them without question and without resistance. It’s the power exchange that it’s about. The sub drops the inhibitions and gives power over that aspect of their life to the Dom. > > And let me say, I understand the confusion. I only learned earlier this year where I fit into all of this. Before that, I just thought I was sick. 😉 > > \*I’m also not much for B&D, despite references to spanking and tying up. They’re necessary evils, IMHO. Okay, so it’s about total submission, fine. He or she wants to engage in activity that releases them from a position of power. This is demonstrated by training him or her, up the ass, with a fake dick. And that particular part is not about sex? Again, not trying to be difficult, but I find it hard to believe that activity isn’t completely about sex at its core. Power demonstrations can be made in many different ways - rape is a power demonstration using sex at its core. Sure - it’s a power demonstration, but it uses sex to demonstrate that you have no power. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/38 "2008-11-21T23:05:00Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > See, I don’t think you are hearing me here. No one is saying that you can’t see the world any way that you want (though I have to be honest I am baffled that a porn star is not a prostitute in your mind but somehow a dominatrix is). Leaving that to the side, the point is that people that are a part of the Dom/sub subculture have expressed a preference that you not use that term. So I guess that in the same way that you might think “nigger” or “faggot” but have the minimum social grace to not call someone that, I am suggesting that you drop your whole prostitute/hooker thing. Nigger and faggot are deliberately insulting and prejudicial. “Prostitute” is an accurate, accepted, unbiased, polite term for people who are paid for sexual favors. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/39 "2008-11-21T23:08:38Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Okay, so it’s about total submission, fine. He or she wants to engage in activity that releases them from a position of power. This is demonstrated by training him or her, up the ass, with a fake dick. And that particular part is not about sex? > > Again, not trying to be difficult, but I find it hard to believe that activity isn’t completely about sex at its core. Power demonstrations can be made in many different ways - rape is a power demonstration using sex at its core. > > Sure - it’s a power demonstration, but it uses sex to demonstrate that you have no power. No, I get it. It gets fuzzy for me sometimes, too. This came to me in the shower just now, and maybe it will help: If it were just about sex (the penetration, the orgasm), he could do that at home. Alone, with someone else, whatever, but he could do that at home. The fact that he’s going to a professional to have this need attended to says something about the transaction, and that is, he does not want _just sex_ out of it. Yes, he may get sexual stimulation from it. And as I said before, some dominatrices would throw his ass out on the street if he did. Now, let’s talk about rape. The safe word thing becomes very important here, because, here’s the thing: that’s where some people want their power exchange to go. There are people who want a full-on rape experience. They want to be able to scream “no,” to kick and fight, to resist in every way imaginable _but still be taken_. That’s why there are safe words. If I’m with a girl and I get a little rough with her and she says, “no! stop!” I stop. If I’m with my babygirl and I get a little rough with her and she says, “no! stop!” I keep going. Because I know her safe word, and it isn’t either of those. Please keep asking questions, because this stuff isn’t easy to learn at home. If it were, there’s be a BDSM channel. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910/40 "2008-11-21T23:09:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What I meant by that was not that he is entitled to do anything to the prostitute that he wants, but that he doesn’t have to everything SHE wants. I’m not saying she should have to do anything she doesn’t want, but that he doesn’t have to anything HE doesn’t want. He doesn’t have to play the whole scene if he doesn’t want. He can read a book if he feels like it. Who, exactly, in this thread or the other one, do you think needs this explained to them? > [@Absolute](#): > > What does that matter? I don’t care how they define what they do, they don’t have any right to prescribe the terms I use to describe them. Just because they don’t like being called prostitutes doesn’t mean it is isn’t true. > > Greedy, opportunistic lawyers don’t like being called ambulance chasers either (or even “greedy, opportunistic lawyers”). Tough shit - their opinion doesn’t change reality. Well, yeah, you can use whatever terms you want to describe other people. As a general rule, though, if someone asks you not to use a term to describe them, continuing to use that term is dickish. Obviously, with some people (such as greedy, opportunistic lawyers) you’re not going to care if you’re being a dick to them. Being a dick to them might even be a desired goal. So, is there any particular reason you want to be a dick towards professional dominatrixes? If there’s not, why are you insisting on calling them prostitutes, after being informed that they don’t like being referred to by that term? > [@Sateryn76](#): > > I promise, I’m, not trying to be obtuse (or whatever) but could you explain how “dildo training” is not sexual in nature? There’s a pretty big difference between “sexual in nature” and “prostitution.” Stripping is sexual in nature, but isn’t prostitution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-dio/473910.md?page=3)