# Hi Disney, Whar my toy? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306 "2016-02-17T00:35:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/41 "2016-02-21T16:42:58Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And it would be somewhat more believable that it isn’t about gender if there weren’t a ton of chatter about Katniss Everdeen being a Mary Sue - when she has a very good backstory for explaining her competence in survival. And if it weren’t called a Mary Sue. I’ve not read articles about Katniss being a Mary Sue and I believe you that she has a good believable background. And like I said no one has accused Furiosa, or Ripley (Aliens) or Sarah Conner (Terminator 2) of being a Mary Sue. I’ve only seen the accusation made of Rey, for a good reason that she’s different to all the examples I’ve mentioned, she genuinely is one. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/42 "2016-02-21T17:07:11Z")
There’s something that’s just weird about this whole situation. It would be one thing if Rey was just a minor background character who suddenly everyone loved out of proportion to her importance to the film, and there were fewer toys of her than of equivalent minor male background characters. But she’s clearly, unquestionably, the protagonist of the film. However, the people who make the action figures and so forth have to do their planning and so forth long before the film is actually complete, based on some amount of communication they get from Lucasfilm about who the characters in the film are, how important they are, etc. I’m guessing that, intentionally or not, there was some breakdown at that level which made it way way way less obvious to someone planning a toy line two years ago how important a character Rey would end up being. Of course, that miscommunication could easily have been aided and abetted by sexism on various levels… ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/43 "2016-02-21T18:19:47Z")
[QUOTE=coremelt] Furiosa, in contrast, is an entirely self made woman. She is kidnapped as a child and earns her position and skills with her own determination, not magical luck. I know which one I’d rather have as a role model for my own female children. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=coremelt] I’ve not read articles about Katniss being a Mary Sue and I believe you that she has a good believable background. And like I said no one has accused Furiosa, or Ripley (Aliens) or Sarah Conner (Terminator 2) of being a Mary Sue. I’ve only seen the accusation made of Rey, for a good reason that she’s different to all the examples I’ve mentioned, she genuinely is one. [/QUOTE] Terminator 2, Alien and Mad Max: Fury Road are NOT childrens movies. Star Wars is. Rey is NOT a important because she is a “good role model” for female children. She is important because she TAKES AWAY a weapon from asshole MALE children. No longer can girls be excluded from play because “girls can’t be jedis/fly the falcon/be whatever it is the boys want for themselves this time”. They can, the movies said so, so little asshole bro will just have to suck it. Good role models for girls was never the issue. Girls were never the problem. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/44 "2016-02-21T18:27:28Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Also, Rey is a terrible role model for women. So she’s only good at everything because she’s a force adept , which only certain very rare people are born with the talent. So the subconscious message is, you can be a kick ass female hero if you’re born into the right magical family. So, just as bad as the Harry Potter series. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/45 "2016-02-21T18:33:04Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Terminator 2, Alien and Mad Max: Fury Road are NOT childrens movies. Star Wars is. Ok then, so I can name Brave, Pocohontas and Mulan as empowering female hero childrens films that don’t resort to a ridiculously overpowered Mary Sue character. Sorry TFA was just badly written, a rehash of ANH that should have been honestly branded as the reboot that it was instead of sold as a sequel. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/46 "2016-02-21T18:35:15Z")
Rey never fought a Sith. Kylo Ren is a member of the Knights of Ren. And he’s not fully trained. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/47 "2016-02-21T19:41:16Z")
The idea of using Furiosa as a counterpoint to demonstrate Rey’s “Mary Sueness” is kind of weird, as both characters have effectively identical backgrounds. They were both orphaned/abandoned as young girls in harsh, wasteland environments where they had to learn fighting and some technical skills in order to survive. If, “How did Rey learn to fly a spaceship?” is a reasonable criticism of _Star Wars_, then “How did Furiosa learn how to drive a war rig?” is a reasonable criticism of _Fury Road_. And if, “She learned by growing up in a violent, marginal society where you picked up those skills or you died,” stands as an explanation for Furiosa, then it stands just as well for Rey. And the same hold right down the line for all of the “Mary Sue” complaints aimed at Rey. You don’t even need to fanwank them: they’ve almost all got plausible, in-story explanations, or are an inherent part of the Star Wars setting ever since the first film. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/48 "2016-02-22T01:59:00Z")
I don’t find Rey’s abilities any less believable than Luke’s in ANH. Or Anakin’s in TPM. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/49 "2016-02-22T02:03:59Z")
Not at all. Furiosa was accepted into a warrior order as a child where she was given formal training. And the only things she’s good at (that we see in the movie) are fighting and driving. She’s not the one that repairs the war rig, thats one of the warboys. Rey appears to have had no formal training in anything and yet is an expert at hand to hand combat, mechanic, pilot and then she figures out how to do things with the force in days that took Luke years of training. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/50 "2016-02-22T02:20:42Z")
I don’t think war boys receive anything that could legitimately be called “formal” training. They’re a bandit gang - something Rey’s probably pretty familiar with on Jakku. As to their skill set, they both know how to fight, and they both know their way around a vehicle. Rey’s shown using more explicitly technical knowledge, but I’d be surprised if Furiosa didn’t know how to jury rig some repairs herself. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/51 "2016-02-22T06:01:49Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > Rey never fought a Sith. Kylo Ren is a member of the Knights of Ren. And he’s not fully trained. He’s barely a Knight of Stimpy. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/52 "2016-02-22T06:20:25Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > the stingy bastards have gone back to five points of articulation on pretty much the entire range. I’ve got a $5 Transformer on my desk with better posability than the Optimus Prime I had as a child, but Star Wars has regressed back to 1977 Kenner quality. > [@TBG](#): > > They’re nicely scuplted, but have 1977 Kenner levels of articulation. OK, I don’t know anything about doll collecting but now I’m curious what would be the “ideal” number of points of articulation? And interesting how you both mention “1977 Kenner” (whatever that is), so I’m surmising that is the gold (brown?) standard of bad doll articulation? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/53 "2016-02-22T07:59:04Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > OK, I don’t know anything about doll collecting but now I’m curious what would be the “ideal” number of points of articulation? And interesting how you both mention “1977 Kenner” (whatever that is), so I’m surmising that is the gold (brown?) standard of bad doll articulation? If you’e roughly my age (I’m 41) then you know exactly what they are. The Kenner action figures - never dolls! - and their associated sets were the alpha and omega of toys in the late 70s-early 80s. [Example](https://www.google.co.il/imgres?imgurl=http://www.museumofplay.org/online-collections/images/Z006/Z00662/Z0066239.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.museumofplay.org/online-collections/1/12/111.4068&h=1023&w=662&tbnid=H9ql-S-x1FRAxM:&docid=_dC7twZdR6EGmM&ei=fMDKVov4EoL3Ut-2jPAH&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiLpuP884rLAhWCuxQKHV8bA34QMwg8KAwwDA#h=1023&imgdii=H9ql-S-x1FRAxM%3A%3BH9ql-S-x1FRAxM%3A%3BCnFOl3Bya2Ve8M%3A&w=662). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/54 "2016-02-22T09:04:24Z")
Star Wars Jabba the Hutt Inflatable. Now we’re talking. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/55 "2016-02-22T16:51:22Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Star Wars Jabba the Hutt Inflatable. > > Now we’re talking. Slave-girl Leia inflatable. NOW we’re talking… ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/56 "2016-02-22T17:31:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Slave-girl Leia inflatable. > NOW we’re talking… Aaaaaaand this is why Disney decided to stop creating Slave Leia merchandise. You can’t exactly welcome a new generation of fans while the old set are in the back going “HUH huh huh, THIS is how I’D fuck Leia” while fondling one of her toys. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/57 "2016-02-22T18:19:43Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Aaaaaaand this is why Disney decided to stop creating Slave Leia merchandise. You can’t exactly welcome a new generation of fans while the old set are in the back going “HUH huh huh, THIS is how I’D fuck Leia” while fondling one of her toys. Oh for fuck’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306/58 "2016-02-22T21:48:00Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > OK, I don’t know anything about doll collecting but now I’m curious what would be the “ideal” number of points of articulation? And interesting how you both mention “1977 Kenner” (whatever that is), so I’m surmising that is the gold (brown?) standard of bad doll articulation? 1980s Mattel (specifically Masters of the Universe) would probably be the low point for posability (the same articulation points as old school Kenner, but less useful, due to how legs are sculpted)…the default poses are more dynamic, though, so it depends what you consider important. The ‘ideal’ is kind of determined by a whole lot of aspects of the sculpt and just how they’re articulating certain joints, but, IMO, at least, 10 points is minimum - both knees, both hips, both elbows, both shoulders, hips, and neck - this is assuming the shoulders and hips are on ball joints, or something similar, and thus don’t require bicep or thigh swivels. 1980s GI Joe were amazing, and the modern ones are even better, although they have a trade off in the form of sculpts that have slightly odd torso proportions. I think the best useful articulation on any toy I’ve seen lately is on Mattel’s fashion dolls - Monster High, Ever After High, and Super Hero Girls - and the larger (Deluxe/Warrior class and larger) Transformers (smaller ones tend to have their transformation schemes interfere with the ‘useful’ aspect, or have to give up some to not snap apart at the lightest touch). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-disney-whar-my-toy/746306.md?page=2)