# Hi I'm trying to find a good definition of "conceit" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853 "2015-08-25T17:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/1 "2015-08-25T17:38:25Z")
Hi Most of the definitions for conceit, as used in journalism today, don’t seem to square with this definition: Most definitions of conceit go something like this: “Conceit develops a comparison which is exceedingly unlikely but is, nonetheless, intellectually imaginative. A comparison turns into a conceit when the writer tries to make us admit a similarity between two things of whose unlikeness we are strongly conscious and for this reason, conceits are often surprising.” I would really like a better definition. I look forward to your feedback. davidmich > **[SLOT88 - Situs Judi Slot Online Jackpot Terbesar](https://www.journalismethics.info/)** > > Slot88 merupakan sebuah situs daftar slot online game yang sangat gacor dan mudah maxwin di indonesia dengan jackpot terbesar. All truths are subject to examination (or at least that is a highly-favoured conceit). > **[Time to Abandon the 'Conceit' of Objectivity](https://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/greg-sheffield/2006/03/31/time-abandon-conceit-objectivity)** > > Slate founding editor Michael Kinsley writes: CNN says it is just thrilled by the transformation of Lou Dobbs—formerly a mild-mannered news anchor noted for his palsy-walsy interviews with corporate CEOs—into a raving populist xenophobe. Ratings are... Objectivity—the faith professed by American journalism and by its critics—is less an ideal than a conceit. Even if you were naïve enough to believe that presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton was actually listening to anything through her mercifully brief “listening tour” to Iowa — during which she met with a handful of hand-selected and bused-in Democratic activists — the whole adventure demonstrates what Nobel prize-winning economist F. A. Hayek called “the Fatal Conceit.” All that remains to be seen is whether Hillary Clinton’s conceit is fatal to her presidential hopes or to the nation’s aspirations for a thriving future. The 2016 election will surely kill one of them. > **[Journalism Is Fine Because Everyone Is a Journalist](https://gizmodo.com/journalism-is-fine-because-everyone-is-a-journalist-5854415)** > > The Washington Post had an interesting back and forth wringing its hands over the future of journalism. Oh no! Journalism is dying! Again! Or so a newspaper with declining readership and revenue would have you believe. The Posts’ Gene Weingarten took the first crack in a recent column. Weingarten frets and willakers because Ben Huh the LOLcats guy is delivering future-of-media keynote addresses instead of someone older and more boring like Bob Woodward. Weingarten litters his copy with what I think he thinks is a cute conceit, repeatedly linking to pictures of cats. (You fool. Your cats should be inline images. > **[Q&A: Mike Daisey on New Show, 'JOURNALISM'](https://www.pdxmonthly.com/arts-and-culture/2013/05/q-and-a-mike-daisey-on-his-new-show-journalism-may-2013)** > > After getting caught in a journalistic scandal over his show about Apple, the monologist writes the industry a love letter in a world premiere on May 21. It isn’t a journalism conceit. The brutal conditions are across the Special Economic Zone. Other places’ violations are even more terrible than the ones that Apple has been caught with. The stories that come out of Samsung are even worse. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/2 "2015-08-25T18:11:46Z")
How would you define “conceit” in the following example? > **[Obama's Fatal Conceit](https://truthonthemarket.com/2011/09/21/obamas-fatal-conceit/)** > > From the beginning of his presidency, I’ve wanted President Obama to succeed.  He was my professor in law school, and while I frequently disagreed with his take on things, I liked him very much.  On the eve of his inauguration, I wrote on... I have now become convinced that President Obama’s biggest problem is that he believes — wrongly — that he (or his people) know better how to allocate resources than do the many millions of “men and women on the spot.” This is the thing that keeps our very smart President from being a wise President. It is killing economic expansion in this country, and it may well render him a one-term President. It is, quite literally, a fatal conceit. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/3 "2015-08-25T18:30:20Z")
It seems to me that the word “conceit” is being used interchangeably with “trope” these days. Not sure. > **[What Are Tropes in Language?](https://www.thoughtco.com/trope-rhetoric-1692567)** > > A trope is a figure of speech and a rhetorical device that produces a shift in the meanings of words. Learn more about how tropes are used. Trope as a Buzzword "The new word-that-must-be-used is ‘trope,’ meaning metaphor, example, literary device, picture–and maybe whatever else the writer wants it to mean. "The main meaning of ‘trope’ is ‘figure of speech.’ . . . "But as I’ve noted before, the sense has been extended to something vaguer and less effective, like ‘theme,’ ‘motif’ or ‘image.’ ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/4 "2015-08-25T19:02:26Z")
I’ve always considered conceit to be the same as self-assurance. . Someone may be conceited or self-assured about their conclusions independently of whether those conclusions are correct, or even reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/5 "2015-08-25T19:03:26Z")
There’s no perfect definition of the word ‘conceit’. As a personal attribute it tends to mean ‘having a high opinion of oneself’. In popular journalistic use, it seems to be used interchangeably with ‘concept’, especially when one wants to smuggle in some negative connotation. When I try to think of a conceit proper, I think of the gravelly voiced movie preview narrator beginning with the immortal phrase “In a world…”. Whatever comes after that is the central conceit. The conceit is usually interesting enough to make you watch the first few minutes of the movie (or article) to see if anything interesting shakes out. If a conceit is very popular, then other writers may reuse its basic form. This spreading form of the conceit is called a trope. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/6 "2015-08-26T19:07:29Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > When I try to think of a conceit proper, I think of the gravelly voiced movie preview narrator beginning with the immortal phrase “In a world…”. You mean [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVDzuT0fXro). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/7 "2015-08-26T19:56:26Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > How would you define “conceit” in the following example? > > [Obama's Fatal Conceit - Truth on the Market](http://truthonthemarket.com/2011/09/21/obamas-fatal-conceit/) > > I have now become convinced that President Obama’s biggest problem is that he believes — wrongly — that he (or his people) know better how to allocate resources than do the many millions of “men and women on the spot.” This is the thing that keeps our very smart President from being a wise President. It is killing economic expansion in this country, and it may well render him a one-term President. It is, quite literally, a fatal conceit. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > There’s no perfect definition of the word ‘conceit’. As a personal attribute it tends to mean ‘having a high opinion of oneself’. Yes; in the passage **davidmich** quoted from, it certainly sounds like the writer is accusing Obama of being **conceited** : of having too high an opinion of himself or his abilities, knowledge, etc. This is one meaning of the word “conceit.” Not to be confused with the literary device [conceit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceit), which is a type of unexpected comparison or extended metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/8 "2015-08-26T20:03:28Z")
I think it’s being used more like [conceit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_conceit) as an idea or assumption. Try reading it that way: “It is, quite literally, a fatal idea.” “…that is a highly-favored idea.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/9 "2015-08-26T20:14:03Z")
You want to see an icon of conceit? See [John Fitsgerald Page](http://clatl.com/atlanta/5-john-fitzgerald-page/Content?oid=1270474), aka [The Atlanta Douchebag](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536893). ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/10 "2015-08-28T15:24:00Z")
Quite why we use the same word to mean “a concept” and “an over-high opinion of oneself”, I don’t know. But I think there’s a sort of link in that both imply some degree of _fanciful_ assumption, not necessarily founded in reality. I’ve always understood “a conceit” (in literary terms) to mean something along the lines of an assumption for the purposes of argument or an imagined idea for the sake of entertainment, that’s understood not to be an attempt at realism. It’s not too far a leap from that to calling someone “conceited” when their idea of themselves doesn’t appear (to others) to be justified. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/11 "2015-08-28T15:36:25Z")
The Etymology Dictionary says this: > [@](#): > > late 14c., “something formed in the mind, thought, notion,” from \*conceiven \* based on analogy of deceit and receipt. Sense evolved from “something formed in the mind,” to “fanciful or witty notion” (1510s), to “vanity” (c. 1600) through shortening of self-conceit (1580s). From the same root as conceived in the sense of “take into the mind” is from mid-14c., a figurative sense also found in the Old French and Latin words. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/12 "2015-08-28T15:42:26Z")
[Conceit: Straight Dope August 1, 2000](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=32956). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/13 "2015-08-28T16:15:56Z")
According to the OED (p. 477 of my copy) there are 10 separate definitions of _conceit_ as a noun and 5 as a verb. And 6 of _conceited_ as an adjective. Detailing them would go beyond Fair Use, but you can look it up. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/14 "2015-08-31T11:06:05Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Quite why we use the same word to mean “a concept” and “an over-high opinion of oneself”, I don’t know. But I think there’s a sort of link in that both imply some degree of _fanciful_ assumption, not necessarily founded in reality. I’ve always understood “a conceit” (in literary terms) to mean something along the lines of an assumption for the purposes of argument or an imagined idea for the sake of entertainment, that’s understood not to be an attempt at realism. It’s not too far a leap from that to calling someone “conceited” when their idea of themselves doesn’t appear (to others) to be justified. And there’s the definition for the “concept” definition I see in other dictionaries. They all refer to it as “fanciful” or “imaginative.” But, in writing it, I think there’s a better word. It’s clearly not just a concept. It’s an assumption. To put it in a full definition: “ **an assumption that is considered incorrect or suspect**.” Though I do wonder if it’s starting to pick up some meaning from the similarly sounding (but etymologically unrelated) word “concede.” I’m pretty sure I’ve heard people use it as a synonym for “concession.” Confer the second-to-last example in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hi-im-trying-to-find-a-good-definition-of-conceit/728853/15 "2015-08-31T11:29:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Though I do wonder if it’s starting to pick up some meaning from the similarly sounding (but etymologically unrelated) word “concede.” I’m pretty sure I’ve heard people use it as a synonym for “concession.” Confer the second-to-last example in the OP. Umm… no. That’s nowhere near a concession. That comes under definition 7 in the OED: a fanciful, ingenious, or witty expression.