# High Fructose Corn Syrup Responsible for Obesity **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 29, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360 "2009-06-29T16:37:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/61 "2009-07-26T17:51:48Z")
> [@SeanArenas](#): > > Thanks.. I forgot to mention about people who call it Coke, whether they mean Coke or Pepsi. > > My department at work goes to lunch together every Friday. People have determined the most specific ways for getting exactly what they want. > > Person one: Coke or Pepsi > Person two: Water with no ice > Person three: Soda water > Person four: Strawberry lemonade > Person five: Water with ice > Person six: Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi > Person seven: Root beer > > But all that is while ordering. In casual conversation, they say “soda.” I say “diet soda”. Now, 80% of the time that’s Diet Coke, but I prefer Diet Pepsi. But if I order Diet Pepsi, they will correct me if all they serve is Coke products. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/62 "2009-07-26T17:58:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I say “diet soda”. Now, 80% of the time that’s Diet Coke, but I prefer Diet Pepsi. But if I order Diet Pepsi, they will correct me if all they serve is Coke products. I say diet cola, if I indeed want a diet cola. It seems that this isn’t sufficient, because I will almost always be asked “Is diet coke OK?” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/63 "2009-07-26T18:17:14Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > I say diet cola, if I indeed want a diet cola. It seems that this isn’t sufficient, because I will almost always be asked “Is diet coke OK?” Yeah, that chaps my hide too. But if you say “Diet Pepsi”, you will always get corrected if all they have is Diet Coke. OTOH, I have never had a table-service restaurant serve any Diet other than diet cola from it’s fountain. Some fast-food places have more selection- sometimes they have the Diet lemonade sold by Coke or if they carry Pepsi products they might have Diet Mt Dew or Diet Sobe. I \*like \*having a non-caffeine diet beverage as a choice. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/64 "2009-07-26T18:37:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, that chaps my hide too. But if you say “Diet Pepsi”, you will always get corrected if all they have is Diet Coke. > > OTOH, I have never had a table-service restaurant serve any Diet other than diet cola from it’s fountain. Some fast-food places have more selection- sometimes they have the Diet lemonade sold by Coke or if they carry Pepsi products they might have Diet Mt Dew or Diet Sobe. I \*like \*having a non-caffeine diet beverage as a choice. There are a handful of restaurants where I live that serve Diet Dr Pepper and Diet Mountain Dew, and one that serves diet orange. They tend to be Chinese buffets. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/65 "2009-07-26T18:42:01Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > There are a handful of restaurants where I live that serve Diet Dr Pepper and Diet Mountain Dew, and one that serves diet orange. They tend to be Chinese buffets. But they aren’t table service are they? Do you serve yourself your own drink? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/66 "2009-07-27T01:45:17Z")
No, there is a server who brings drinks and clears dirty dishes. The customers get their own food, however. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/67 "2009-07-27T05:18:56Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > I say diet cola, if I indeed want a diet cola. It seems that this isn’t sufficient, because I will almost always be asked “Is diet coke OK?” Try what my friends try. Say, “I’ll take a Diet Coke or a Diet Pepsi, whichever you have,” and see if that helps the conversation just move on at that point. ---
**Author:** ![sawdee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@sawdee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sawdee)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/68 "2009-11-14T05:39:33Z")
I would like to highlight something that is, though perhaps not immediately relevant to the article, nonetheless significant and missed there and mentioned only once in this thread: > [@](#): > > As I understood it, it’s not that HFCS is cheap, it’s that in the US sugar is tarriffed enough to drive the cost higher than HFCS The reason there is even a discussion about HFCS in the first place is because the US corn lobby has paid congress to make American consumers and food manufacturers pay almost 200% more for sugar than the rest of the world. Select few industries in the US puppeteer congress as shamelessly as corn. Corn prices too low? No problem – congress (via legislation authorizing it) pays farmers /not to grow/ corn in order to decrease market supply and raise the price. Did you ever wonder why corn is the leading ingredient in most pet food? It’s not because our feline companions have ever been observed stalking corn stalks, it’s because the corn lobby set it up this way. Veterinarians can tell you about the ill-effects of starch build up in dogs as a result of most dog food. Apparently when your industry is a member of the country’s Good Ol Boys club, the word Free in Free Market means Free to do whatever you want. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/69 "2009-11-14T16:53:00Z")
> [@sawdee](#): > > … Select few industries in the US puppeteer congress as shamelessly as corn. > > Apparently when your industry is a member of the country’s Good Ol Boys club, the word Free in Free Market means Free to do whatever you want. they say an honest politician is one who stays bought. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/70 "2009-11-14T18:01:02Z")
> [@sawdee](#): > > I would like to highlight something that is, though perhaps not immediately relevant to the article, nonetheless significant and missed there and mentioned only once in this thread: > > The reason there is even a discussion about HFCS in the first place is because the US corn lobby has paid congress to make American consumers and food manufacturers pay almost 200% more for sugar than the rest of the world. Select few industries in the US puppeteer congress as shamelessly as corn. Corn prices too low? No problem – congress (via legislation authorizing it) pays farmers /not to grow/ corn in order to decrease market supply and raise the price. Can you either elaborate on that or provide some good links to further reading. I was having a discussion with a coworker and I was pretty much starting to make that point but ended up letting it go since I didn’t feel like I knew enough about it. ---
**Author:** ![sawdee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@sawdee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sawdee)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/71 "2009-11-14T18:28:10Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > Can you either elaborate on that or provide some good links to further reading. I was having a discussion with a coworker and I was pretty much starting to make that point but ended up letting it go since I didn’t feel like I knew enough about it. Sure: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002\_farm\_bill:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_farm_bill:) “Rep. Larry Combest (R-TX), chairman of the House Committee on Agriculture, drafts and sponsors initial house farm bill. His proposal would spend the equivalent of the entire federal budget surplus for FY2001, and included $76 billion in new spending on top of the previous bill’s spending, for a total of $171 billion.” The merits of agricultural subsidies are one controversial debate (on which you can guess my position); that corn deserves far more of them than any other crop is a controversy I would scarcely call a debate outside of the local economies that benefit directly and mostly from agriculture. According to Wikipedia’s source “Encyclopedia of Junk Food and Fast Food, Andrew F. Smith, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2006 (page 258)” on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose\_corn\_syrup:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup:) “Since the mid-90s US Federal subsidies to corn growers have amounted to $40 billion” [http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html](http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html) FTA: “Moreover, every $1 of profits earned by ADM’s corn sweetener operation costs consumers $10, and every $1 of profits earned by its ethanol operation costs taxpayers $30.” I would ask that anyone who takes issue with CATO’s general political positions (Democrats) consider this particular research in isolation. The agriculture industry it’s speaking out against is far more aligned with the party it traditionally supports, lending credibility to their position if anything. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/72 "2009-11-14T21:51:42Z")
> [@sawdee](#): > > The reason there is even a discussion about HFCS in the first place is because the US corn lobby has paid congress to make American consumers and food manufacturers pay almost 200% more for sugar than the rest of the world. Select few industries in the US puppeteer congress as shamelessly as corn. Corn prices too low? No problem – congress (via legislation authorizing it) pays farmers /not to grow/ corn in order to decrease market supply and raise the price. Moreover, the vast majority of the corn that is grown has much less nutritional value than it did 50 years ago because corn that is full of nutrients isn’t beneficial for producing corn syrup. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/73 "2009-11-14T23:25:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Pepsi has introduced Pepsi Throwback, sweetened with “pure sugar”. Same price as regular. Does it come in caffeine-free? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/74 "2009-11-15T02:01:55Z")
> [@SeanArenas](#): > > I said, fridge it in 90 minutes or toss it. They didn’t agree. I wouldn’t agree either. > [@](#): > > With huge meals served (especially if the price isn’t low) that makes people MORE likely to take large meals and let them sit for longer. The mindset of not wasting food (or the mindset of not wasting the money on the expensive food) kept them saving that food through what I considered unhealthy conditions. Eh. You can leave cooked food unrefrigerated 8-12 hours no problem, so long as it’s covered. Remember cooking is a preservation technique. This about this: Do you buy bread from the supermarket? They don’t refrigerate it. It’s probably been sitting on the shelf for days. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/75 "2009-11-15T03:38:45Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > This about this: Do you buy bread from the supermarket? They don’t refrigerate it. It’s probably been sitting on the shelf for days. No, that’s probably not accurate for bread. In the USA, bread is baked at night and delivered to supermarkets every morning, 5-6 days a week. Any leftover bread that hasn’t sold is removed, and sold as day-old bread in bakery outlet stores. They have various color codes on the twist-ties used on the packages so the store workers can quickly identify old bread. Most bakeries don’t deliver on Sundays, so if you shop Sunday evening, you might get bread that was baked Friday night and delivered Saturday morning, and so is 40 hours old or so. But bread doesn’t get much older than that. If you want old stuff, look in the produce section. I’ve been in a warehouse in the midst of a Minnesota January winter, and seen racks of ‘Minnesota grown’ apples that were picked in September or October, about to be sent to stores February 1st. And they weren’t preserved in any way, except being stored in a controlled environment. ---
**Author:** ![glilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/48db29/32.png) [@glilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glilly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/76 "2009-11-15T19:55:36Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Moreover, the vast majority of the corn that is grown has much less nutritional value than it did 50 years ago because corn that is full of nutrients isn’t beneficial for producing corn syrup. Though this may be technically true, it sounds misleading. Over the past 50 years there has been a large growth in demand for high-starch corn, which farmers have supplied. That could let one say that corn “on average” has less nutritional value, but that average is skewed by corn not grown for human consumption, which makes it a meaningless metric. Farmers grow strains of corn with high starch content (and low everything-else\*) for HFCS, ethanol, and other products derived from starch. These aren’t particularly palatable, so varieties of sweet corn are grown for human consumption. \*I’ve simplified the explanation a bit, for example, there are strains of corn with both high starch and high oil (for corn oil extraction). But generally there are “industrial” corn and sweet corn. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/77 "2009-11-15T21:33:38Z")
It seems like soda is sweeter these days than forty years ago. I read somewhere that Pepsi won all those taste tests in the 1980’s because it’s sweeter. Younger people preferred it in the test because it is sweeter. Maybe it’s the HFCS? Or maybe coke added more sweetener too? Coke had to do something to stay ahead in the cola wars. Size plays a big role. Coke started in 6 oz bottles. Then 10 oz when I was a kid. But, we only got coke about three times a week. Suddenly, cokes are 20 oz and kids are drinking the things for breakfast? No wonder childhood diabetes is rising. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/78 "2009-11-16T00:34:50Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Coke started in 6 oz bottles. Then 10 oz when I was a kid. But, we only got coke about three times a week. Suddenly, cokes are 20 oz and kids are drinking the things for breakfast? > No wonder childhood diabetes is rising. Do you have a cite for your implication that drinking sweet things causes diabetes? Because as far a I know, it is still a genetic-related disease. It may be noticed sooner in people who comsume more sheets, but the actual cause is still their genetics. (As someone with a grandmother, both father & mother, 3 uncles, 2 aunts, 4 cousins, and 1 brother who are diabetic, I’m well aware of the genetic connections!) ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/79 "2009-11-16T02:00:03Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Do you have a cite for your implication that drinking sweet things causes diabetes? > > Because as far a I know, it is still a genetic-related disease. It may be noticed sooner in people who comsume more sheets, but the actual cause is still their genetics. Type 2 is a little different, according to this [article](https://health.google.com/health/ref/Type+2+diabetes): “Because sugar is not getting into the tissues, abnormally high levels of sugar build up in the blood. This is called hyperglycemia. Many people with insulin resistance have hyperglycemia and high blood insulin levels at the same time. People who are overweight have a higher risk of insulin resistance, because fat interferes with the body’s ability to use insulin.” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360/80 "2009-11-16T02:48:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you have a cite for your implication that drinking sweet things causes diabetes? It seems like every news report blames a high sugar diet (in childhood) and lack of exercise for the ballooning childhood diabetes epidemic. Maybe the news people are blowing it out of proportion. I’m just repeating what they say. I do hear people ordering cokes for breakfast at McDonalds. Makes me want to gag. Cokes were for special occasions in my family. You drank one after mowing the yard, or playing football in the backyard. They weren’t intended as a substitute for water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-fructose-corn-syrup-responsible-for-obesity/501360.md?page=5)