# High maintenance/low maintenance women--WHAT? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 17, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995 "2011-01-17T21:22:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![xoferew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/e9a140/32.png) [@xoferew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xoferew)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/21 "2011-01-18T01:22:28Z")
You can also have a high maintenance car that you’re always washing and buffing and tuning up under the hood, right? Or a high maintenance dog that needs lots of grooming and clipping and organic food that you make in the blender? Some people take pride in having high maintenance stuff in their life. ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/22 "2011-01-18T01:23:36Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > What’s actually worse is _self-maintaining_ women. I was dating a trust-fund baby in a previous life and she had the nerve to say “You know, I’m only keeping you around for the companionship”. The unsaid implication being: “I don’t need you, I can jettison you at any time I want.” > > Which, come to think of it, she did! (And it was the best thing that coulda happened to me). What else did you want her to keep you around for? I’m genuinely curious. Did you want to help her out with her expenses or give her gifts? I can’t figure out why what she said bothered you. Don’t most men want women who are self-sufficient and not needy? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/23 "2011-01-18T01:38:59Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > Don’t most men want women who are self-sufficient and not needy? Not really. Men want to feel like a protector/provider. Our society can fight it all it wants, but that primal feeling is hard-wired, biological, and never ever going away. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/24 "2011-01-18T01:46:05Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > What else did you want her to keep you around for? I’m genuinely curious. Did you want to help her out with her expenses or give her gifts? I can’t figure out why what she said bothered you. Don’t most men want women who are self-sufficient and not needy? The inference was that there was no “for better or worse”, you don’t please me, yer out. It turned me into an accessory. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/25 "2011-01-18T01:48:20Z")
IMO this term can refer to a lover or friend who is: a) clingy b) excessively time-demanding c) low on self-esteem / constantly seeking validation d) a combination of the above ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/26 "2011-01-18T01:50:36Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > This has been used for a lot more than the last few years - I’ve heard it all my life, at the very least (so I presume it was common before that, too). So it was common at least as far back as the 70s. > > I’ve heard it used about men, too, but only in the last few years. The phrase “high maintenance” has certainly been around but the first time I remember hearing it used in a relationship context was after the movie _When Harry Met Sally_ popularized it in '89. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/27 "2011-01-18T01:53:18Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Not really. Men want to feel like a protector/provider. Our society can fight it all it wants, but that primal feeling is hard-wired, biological, and never ever going away. I’d argue that its more often that women expect that or they hit the road… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/28 "2011-01-18T01:58:47Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > IMO this term can refer to a lover or friend who is: > > a) clingy > b) excessively time-demanding > c) low on self-esteem / constantly seeking validation > d) a combination of the above I agree. And the term is not sexist in the least–it’s equally applicable to men and women. In fact, the only person I regularly characterized as “high maintenance” was a male friend of mine. Somebody who is “high maintenance” requires constant attention and validation. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/29 "2011-01-18T02:00:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Some women like to known as high maintenance, because they interpret that phrase to mean that they take care of themselves and expect only the best. “Take care of themselves”? Fine. “Expect only the best”? That’s a bit of a red flag to me; it sounds like someone who always orders the most expensive thing on the menu with no thought as to whether the date treating can afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/30 "2011-01-18T02:14:59Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > The phrase “high maintenance” has certainly been around but the first time I remember hearing it used in a relationship context was after the movie _When Harry Met Sally_ popularized it in '89. Yeah, according to the _Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang_ by way of [Wiktionary](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/high-maintenance), that’s what popularized it. > [@kapri](#): > > Also, I’m an English teacher, editor, and writer, and I sort of insist on precision with regard to language, so when something seems vague to me, I question it. The original, literal meaning of “high-maintenance” had to do with machines, cars, etc. that actually require maintenance (tune-ups, repairs, preventative maintenance). To use the phrase of people or relationships is—or at least, has its origins in—metaphor. And I don’t know if you can demand that metaphorical language be precise. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/31 "2011-01-18T02:27:49Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And I don’t know if you can demand that metaphorical language be precise. I only use the term high-maintenance for women who are fast machines who always keep their motors clean. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/32 "2011-01-18T03:20:19Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > \ > If the relationship or friendship requires an abnormal amount of energy to maintain, then it’s “high maintenance”. That’s how I look at it - everything is just _difficult_ with high-maintenance people - getting ready to go out is difficult, having a conversation is difficult, going on a trip is difficult, going on a spur-of-the-moment picnic is difficult (actually, I don’t think “spur-of-the-moment” ever happens with high maintenance people). ---
**Author:** ![Chicken\_Fingers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Chicken\_Fingers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicken_Fingers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/33 "2011-01-18T04:49:38Z")
My partner is a man, and I consider him high maintenance. He’s worth it, but it takes its toll on me. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/34 "2011-01-18T08:53:58Z")
Aww, looks like someone called kapri high-maintenance. I agree with the consensus. You seemed to conflate a woman who puts a lot of maintenance into her appearance, with a person who requires a lot of all around maintenance from his or her relationship partner. The latter example is what someone means when they call a person they are dating “high maintenance.” I don’t think it’s sexist. I have heard women call men high maintenance. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/35 "2011-01-18T10:46:41Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > What else did you want her to keep you around for? I’m genuinely curious. Did you want to help her out with her expenses or give her gifts? I can’t figure out why what she said bothered you. Don’t most men want women who are self-sufficient and not needy? Some men do… > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Not really. Men want to feel like a protector/provider. Our society can fight it all it wants, but that primal feeling is hard-wired, biological, and never ever going away. … some don’t. Which, if you strike out “men” and substitute “people”, can be assigned to any human characteristic or desire. People are just complicated. I’ve known guys who were extremely happy to have “her with me because she wants me, not because she needs me”. I’ve known others who were unable to accept my help until I framed it on terms that made it sound like it was them who were helping me by sending work my way. You just have to figure out which kind you’re dealing with, every time. The Spanish for “high maintenance” is either “una mujer cara/un tipo caro” (an expensive person) or “demasiado trabajo” (too much work). Trophy spouses are “expensive”, but for those who like having one they’re not “too much work”; if the trophy loses its gilt, though… it suddenly becomes “too much work”. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/36 "2011-01-18T10:51:20Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s how I look at it - everything is just _difficult_ with high-maintenance people - getting ready to go out is difficult, having a conversation is difficult, going on a trip is difficult, going on a spur-of-the-moment picnic is difficult (actually, I don’t think “spur-of-the-moment” ever happens with high maintenance people). IME, spur-of-the-moment happens ALL THE TIME with these people and it always ends up a thousand times more complicated than it needs to be. You have the picnic, yes, but it’s two hours later than you wanted, no one is really satisfied with the final food or location selections, and someone’s nursing hurt feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/37 "2011-01-18T11:00:20Z")
It’s always “their” spur, though, never yours. If you’re the one suggesting something, it gets shot down so fast you’re left wondering whether anybody got the plate number off that star destroyer. Note that this applies only to those who are high-maintenance emotionally: some people like their expensive clothes and their massages, but so long as it doesn’t interfere with already-set plans are perfectly happy to perform their assigned arm-decoration duties (which do require the clothes and massages and whatnot, after all). ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/38 "2011-01-18T11:21:18Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > What’s actually worse is _self-maintaining_ women. I’m also confused about how this is worse! Oh no, my partner can look after herself - what a horror! ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/39 "2011-01-18T12:08:32Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I’m also confused about how this is worse! Oh no, my partner can look after herself - what a horror! You’re missing the subtle: Not only can I look out for myself, I don’t much need you for anything other than a poke. Go stand next to the credenza. Part of the stickiness in marriage is that you can’t MAKE brash decisions, they all take time…enough time for things to get worked out. Keep in mind the age of the people involved at the time. (which I haden’t mentioned, but will now for clarity). She was 28, wanting a kid before 30, I was 24, just out of college and working temp/contract jobs. She had two cars, two houses, two dogs, and a portfolio. At one end, she’d offering to buy me a NEW CAR if I’d pop the question, and on the other, she’s bitching that she wanted to go out to dinner, again, was upset she had to pay for it again, to a guy that was making a tenth of her income. I had a car, a computer, a week’s clothing, and 1/3rd rent with two other guys. She then says, and tone of voice is critical, “You know, you’re just here for the companionship.” Is _that_ conveying the negative aspect? Hey, if you’re happy with a relationship on such uneven terms, good-onya, but I’d live it first. I didn’t want to be the entertainment/sperm-donor. There was also the untreated bi-polar disorder…it was a real treat! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/40 "2011-01-18T12:28:13Z")
That’s not just self-maintaining, that sounds like an unequal relationship for other reasons - you both wanted different things out of it than the other wanted, or was willing to give. I’m not quite sure why companionship is a bad thing, but I’m sure there was some subtext and history there that made it so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995.md?page=3)