# High maintenance/low maintenance women--WHAT? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 17, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995 "2011-01-17T21:22:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/61 "2011-01-18T17:13:03Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > My female friends and I have discussed it, and since most of my friends are feminist, they are disgusted by the phrase and view it as something a man says about a woman who demands respect from them–someone who is not available for booty calls and so on. I know I’ve heard it a lot from Neanderthals like this, but I think they just bitch about it the loudest. And sometimes, it’s just a mismatch between what person A wants and what person B can give - no villain necessary. ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/62 "2011-01-18T17:29:31Z")
never mind/misread :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/63 "2011-01-18T17:34:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It never even occurred to me that anyone might find those terms sexist. Thats just because you are low maintenance 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/64 "2011-01-18T17:45:14Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > \ > I agree with the consensus. You seemed to conflate a woman who puts a lot of maintenance into her appearance, with a person who requires a lot of all around maintenance from his or her relationship partner. The latter example is what someone means when they call a person they are dating “high maintenance.” > > I don’t think it’s sexist. I have heard women call men high maintenance. Someone can put a lot of effort into their appearance and still not be the archetypical “high maintenance” - for example, if a fun thing comes up, and they drop what they’re doing and go have fun, they’re not high maintenance. If they miss out on fun thing because they need two hours to get ready or won’t go at all because it might involve messy hair/chipping a nail, they’re high maintenance. > [@MandaJo](#): > > IME, spur-of-the-moment happens ALL THE TIME with these people and it always ends up a thousand times more complicated than it needs to be. You have the picnic, yes, but it’s two hours later than you wanted, no one is really satisfied with the final food or location selections, and someone’s nursing hurt feelings. True enough. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/65 "2011-01-18T17:46:24Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If your hanging around self described feminists and reading all you can (unless its from actual scientific journals) your are probably making your self less knowledgable about how men and women behave and relate. I’ll give you a hallelujah on that. I’m not a feminist; I’m a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/66 "2011-01-18T17:55:03Z")
Rowr. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/67 "2011-01-18T18:15:24Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > My female friends and I have discussed it, and since most of my friends are feminist, they are disgusted by the phrase and view it as something a man says about a woman who demands respect from them–someone who is not available for booty calls and so on. This sounds like that old saying, “When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” I’ve never heard the term used by anyone to connote anything like what you’re describing here, including at the height of the popularity of the term (which I agree was around 1989, when it was referenced in “When Harry Met Sally.”) Just like that movie, the only people who I’ve known to object to the term were people who were themselves high maintenance. **SecondJudith** , I think while you’re talking about being happy pottering around on your own for a night or a weekend, someone saying “all I need you for is the companionship” is kind of the opposite. The latter says to me that you need the pottering around time, but you don’t need the context of the longer term relationship. Kind of like putting the TV on for background noise. Is that how you view your relationship with your husband? ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/68 "2011-01-18T20:46:40Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > Actually, the guy I’m dating recently called me low maintenance, but a few years ago someone else–someone who knew me but never dated me–called me high maintenance. That got me wondering how I could be perceived as both and exactly what it meant, and then I started noticing that people were saying it everywhere online. When I saw someone say it here on a dating thread, I started this poll to see if I could get a handle on exactly what people meant when they used the phrase. If you can’t tell, the phrase really bugs me, because it seems patronizing. > > Honestly, I actually did think it referred to a woman who required a lot of maintenance, such as weekly mani/pedis, frequent trips to the hair salon, expensive handbags, and so on, which is part of what confused me, since I require none of those things and in fact actively avoid them. My female friends and I have discussed it, and since most of my friends are feminist, they are disgusted by the phrase and view it as something a man says about a woman who demands respect from them–someone who is not available for booty calls and so on. > > Now I see that many people think of something else when they use the phrase, although the meaning is still fairly vague. In the last year or so I have been reading everything I can about the nuances of relationships between men and women, and this is just one small aspect of that larger research. > > Yes, I know I’m overthinking this. People often misrepresent the true nature of their ex-lovers, but I hardly think the term “high maintenance,” is code word for “the woman demanded I respect her, and wouldn’t let me use her for booty calls.” I also find it rather antifeminist of you to assume that a woman who demands respect might not also enjoy booty calls. Kapri I think you dislike this term and find it sexist because it can conform to a common stereotype of gender roles. Regardless of the actual reality of the situation throughout history or today, men have traditionally been portrayed as the active partner in a romantic pairing, while the women are portrayed more passively. Men were the ones who did the courting and seducing. Men bought women drinks. They bought them flowers and chocolates. They composed flattering poetry or stood outside the women’s windows with boom boxes. Men slew the dragon, or collected 100 Philistine foreskins to win the princess. When comedies want to make fun of relationships or dating, they portray men listening to boring, overly detailed, monologues about the attractive woman’s day, or reluctant husbands being dragged to the ballet or a chick flick. The idea of all this being look at all the impressive/silly things men do to get women. I think that this is making you think that high maintenance must be some nasty thing men call women. Of course in reality, women put quite a lot of effort into getting men as well. Just look at Cosmo magazine. Half of the articles in the magazine are about pleasing or understanding your man. I’ve read several Cosmos and I’m willing to share the secret of landing a good man to all you wondering ladies. The secret to landing a good man is to buy the cosmetics, clothing, and other products that advertise in Cosmo magazine. Ok, I got sidetracked there, but the point is, men can be just as high maintenance as women, and as far as my experience indicates, women have no problem disparaging a guy as “needy,” or “clingy,” or “high maintenance.” Is the term nagging sexist? One generally associates nagging with mothers and wives more than with fathers and husbands, but fathers and husbands certainly can and do nag. As for your question about men and needy women, lots of people want to feel needed, and is it surprising that in romantic relationships many men desire to be needed in roles traditionally associated with men? ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/69 "2011-01-18T20:51:06Z")
When my boyfriend and I first started hanging out as friends, I confessed to him that I would make a horrible girlfriend because I was high maintenance. What I meant was that I required a whole lot of attention. Then we went camping, and did other such activities that involved tangled hair, infrequent showers, limited access to toilet facilities and possible nail breakage. He said “You’re not high maintenance!” Apparently he thought high maintenance meant going to great lengths to keep your appearance pristine. I think high-maintenance means both of those things. You won’t know which one until you ask for clarification. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/70 "2011-01-18T21:01:49Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > or collected 100 Philistine foreskins My valentine’s day shopping is DONE baby! ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/71 "2011-01-18T21:05:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > the only people who I’ve known to object to the term were people who were themselves high maintenance. Yeah that was my theory too. She always thought the term meant someone who was really into their own hair and makeup, then she realized it meant someone was who was excessively demanding of their partner. Then she realized that the description fit her. Then she decided it was sexist because the man who used her for a booty call decided she was too high maintenance for a long term relationship and was honest with her about it. Of course that theory was crafted using only the information presented in this thread. I know nothing about kapri. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/72 "2011-01-18T21:09:56Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > My valentine’s day shopping is DONE baby! Yeah but then some jerk will say he’s going to bring back 100, but actually bring back 200, and it will make you look like a slacker. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/73 "2011-01-18T21:31:33Z")
It’s entirely possible for one person to think you’re low maintenance and another to think you’re high maintenance even though you act the same towards both of them. It’s about how much perceived effort it takes to put up with your shit. Say you love to go dancing. If you’re with a guy who hates dancing, that makes you higher maintenance, because he constantly has to do shit that he hates to make you happy, and you’re all, “When are we going out daaaaancing?” and he’s all “Damn, I took her out dancing six months ago!”. If another guy likes dancing that makes you low maintenance, because you never complain when drags you out for an evening of high stepping. Same behavior on your part, yet one guy resents having to put up with it, and another guy thinks you’re easy to get along with. ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/74 "2011-01-18T21:42:03Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Yeah that was my theory too. She always thought the term meant someone who was really into their own hair and makeup, then she realized it meant someone was who was excessively demanding of their partner. Then she realized that the description fit her. Then she decided it was sexist because the man who used her for a booty call decided she was too high maintenance for a long term relationship and was honest with her about it. > > Of course that theory was crafted using only the information presented in this thread. I know nothing about kapri. Um, no. The person I am dating actually called me low maintenance. We see each other maybe twice a week, and I don’t bug him the rest of the time. The rest of the stuff you wrote isn’t accurate either. Sheesh. If you knew me you’d know how hilarious what you wrote is. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/75 "2011-01-18T22:35:19Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > Um, no. The person I am dating actually called me low maintenance. We see each other maybe twice a week, and I don’t bug him the rest of the time. The rest of the stuff you wrote isn’t accurate either. > Sheesh. If you knew me you’d know how hilarious what you wrote is. Damn! I thought I was psychic. What I was actually thinking was if she replies all defensive and offended I was right, if she laughs at me I was way off. I realize from a rereading that that post was well… pointlessly accusatory? Yeah, that’s a good way of putting it. Genuine apologies, I hope no serious offense was taken? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/76 "2011-01-18T22:58:37Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > So men, what do you mean when you say someone is “high maintenance” or “low maintenance”? Why don’t we refer you to the iconic dialogue from _When Harry Met Sally_? > [@](#): > > \*\*Harry Burns: \*\*There are two kinds of women: high maintenance and low maintenance. > **Sally Albright:** Which one am I? > \*\*Harry Burns: \*\*You’re the worst kind; you’re high maintenance but you think you’re low maintenance. > **Sally Albright:** I don’t see that. > **Harry Burns:** You don’t see that? Waiter, I’ll begin with a house salad, but I don’t want the regular dressing. I’ll have the balsamic vinegar and oil, but on the side. And then the salmon with the mustard sauce, but I want the mustard sauce on the side. “On the side” is a very big thing for you. > **Sally Albright:** Well, I just want it the way I want it. > **Harry Burns:** I know; high maintenance. A high-maintenance woman (or man, or friend, etc.) is one with whom interactions require you to work much harder. She wants things only the way _she_ wants things and damn all inconvenience to anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/77 "2011-01-18T23:18:50Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > . Genuine apologies, I hope no serious offense was taken? You know what kind of people you have to apologize to often? High maintenance people, thats who! And Hitler of course 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/78 "2011-01-18T23:27:01Z")
Dammit! I thought we were going to get out of ONE thread without that damned Hitler showing up! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/79 "2011-01-19T00:34:44Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If your hanging around self described feminists and reading all you can (unless its from actual scientific journals) your are probably making your self less knowledgable about how men and women behave and relate. I get all my best relationship advice from _Nature_. IME I guess I am the only person here to hace only ever heard the expression used to describe women, and, while I think it’s apt for many of the people (or types) described here, like the OP says it is often used too broadly to be of any use. I do often wonder, too, if it’s sometimes used to describe women who are either too transparent about their beauty and fitness regimen (eliminating some ‘feminine mystique’) , or who just don’t return someone’s affections. Women who need their extensions, eyeliner tattoos, fake nails and implants readjusted every week, in between gym sessions, electrolysis and specific fancy meals could be called high maintenance (even though they are making a ton of cash and paying for everything themselves)… but they’re attracting the guys (douches) who are in the gym and flashy restaurants right alongside them, who often want to prove their worth by taking their baby shopping or buying her drinks at a club. If anyone enters into a relationship with them shocked that hair doesn’t blowdry itself or that a certain look requires dieting and/or exercise, it’s hard to have a ton of sympathy. (In light of the high maintenance friend thread going on right now somewhere else on the Dope, I’ll say that that is a judgment that takes a little more time, whereas I’ve heard guys declare a woman was ‘high maintenance’ upon looking her up and down.) ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995/80 "2011-01-19T01:02:45Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You know what kind of people you have to apologize to often? > > High maintenance people, thats who! And Hitler of course 🙂 This chick named Eva told me that Hitler was pretty high maintenance himself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-maintenance-low-maintenance-women-what/567995.md?page=5)