# High noon vs. low noon (???) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610 "2005-08-11T17:03:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/1 "2005-08-11T17:03:31Z")
I work for a property management company. Someone called to make an appointment for a showing, and our leasing agent said she could be there at 12:00 noon. Caller: Is that high noon or low noon? Leasing Agent: What? High noon or low noon? I meant 12:00 - noon. C: Well, is that high noon or low noon? LA: The middle of the day. 12:00 PM - just noon. C: OK. We’ve been confused ever since. Anybody else ever hear of “low noon”? ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/2 "2005-08-11T17:09:58Z")
> [@Dictionary](#): > > The time or point in the sun’s path at which the sun is on the local meridian. Also called noontide, noontime It’s a redundancy to emphasise the sun being overhead which is already implied by the word noon. Just one step removed from the PIN number you use in the ATM machine. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/3 "2005-08-11T17:12:38Z")
Who would actually ask that? Who doesn’t understand what 12:00 noon means? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/4 "2005-08-11T17:14:37Z")
Well, there’s the usual bit of confusion when people try to refer to noon as either 12 a.m. or 12 p.m., when it can’t be either; actually referring to it as noon ought to make it simpler… ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/5 "2005-08-11T17:16:51Z")
Before use of watches and clocks was common, noon could have been mid-day…a range of 1-3 hrs. High noon narrows it down. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/6 "2005-08-11T17:22:23Z")
> [@Avarie537](#): > > I work for a property management company. Someone called to make an appointment for a showing, and our leasing agent said she could be there at 12:00 noon. > > Caller: Is that high noon or low noon? > > Leasing Agent: What? High noon or low noon? I meant 12:00 - noon. > > C: Well, is that high noon or low noon? > > LA: The middle of the day. 12:00 PM - just noon. > > C: OK. > > We’ve been confused ever since. Anybody else ever hear of “low noon”? Methinks you’ve been had by one of those people who also answers a cashier’s inquiry of “Did you find everything?” with “I couldn’t find any of those big bags of money.” ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/7 "2005-08-11T17:28:20Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > people try to refer to noon as either 12 a.m. or 12 p.m., when it can’t be either. People are often confused by 12 AM/PM but I am confused by your statment that it “ **can’t** be either.” Noon by clock is specifically 12PM. Midnight is 12AM. If you meant to say it “ **can** be either” this would also be incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/8 "2005-08-11T17:32:09Z")
Maybe he ment “can’t be neither”, which would technically be correct? ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/9 "2005-08-11T17:36:57Z")
> [@Ace309](#): > > Methinks you’ve been had by one of those people who also answers a cashier’s inquiry of “Did you find everything?” with “I couldn’t find any of those big bags of money.” My answer to that is, “No. I couldn’t find any childhood innocence or youthful idealism” ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/10 "2005-08-11T17:37:00Z")
> [@Padeye](#): > > People are often confused by 12 AM/PM but I am confused by your statment that it “ **can’t** be either.” Noon by clock is specifically 12PM. Midnight is 12AM. If you meant to say it “ **can** be either” this would also be incorrect. Actually, I believe you are wrong. Noon and midnight are neither AM nor PM. Yup, here’s a cite to back that up. [http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm](http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/11 "2005-08-11T17:43:42Z")
I realize that 12:00 is nether before or after the meridian but it has always been my understanding that the 12PM convention is used for noon. ---
**Author:** ![heywalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee7513/32.png) [@heywalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heywalt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/12 "2005-08-11T18:01:12Z")
I’m going to take a WAG, but I’m thinking that the caller was meaning that as something of a joke. I’ve never heard of a ‘low noon’ per se, though you could assume there was one since there’s a ‘high noon’. It sounds like the caller was trying to be funny, but then they were taken seriously and so they kept asking. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/13 "2005-08-11T18:24:29Z")
> [@Who\_me?](#): > > Actually, I believe you are wrong. Noon and midnight are neither AM nor PM. > > Yup, here’s a cite to back that up. > > [http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm](http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm) Appeal to authority doesn’t work for usage. In common usage 12 p.m. is noon and 12 a.m. is midnight. It’s ridiculous to keep saying that this is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/14 "2005-08-11T18:29:00Z")
> [@heywalt](#): > > I’m going to take a WAG, but I’m thinking that the caller was meaning that as something of a joke. I’ve never heard of a ‘low noon’ per se, though you could assume there was one since there’s a ‘high noon’. It sounds like the caller was trying to be funny, but then they were taken seriously and so they kept asking. I concur. This sounds exactly like something my dad would say. When drunk. They probably expected the employee to say something like “High noon, sir. I’ll bring my revolver.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/15 "2005-08-11T18:29:22Z")
> [@Avarie537](#): > > Caller: Is that high noon or low noon? > > Leasing Agent: What? High noon or low noon? I meant 12:00 - noon. > > C: Well, is that high noon or low noon? > > LA: The middle of the day. 12:00 PM - just noon. > > C: OK. Maybe the caller was trying to figure out whether to round up some deputies to help capture Frank Miller and his gang. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/16 "2005-08-11T18:36:28Z")
Yes, noon is 12:00 PM. The minute after noon is 12:01 PM, no question about \*ante \* or \*post meridiem \* there, so why wouldn’t the minute before 12:01 PM be 12:00 PM? “High noon” is a literary term, inspired by the sun being at its highest then, not a scientific term. Relax. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/17 "2005-08-11T18:37:19Z")
Another vote for “the customer was being a jackass.” I encountered one of these when riding along with a musician friend to a gig. We had some trouble finding the right building, and when we thought we had the right one, I hopped out of the car to go see. The place was locked up, so I knocked and this guy came to the door. I said, “Hi, I’m here with Friend who’s playing here tonight. Are we at the right place?” He says something like, “Well, are any of us in the right place?” I gave a small chuckle and said something like, “yeah, well, is this where we should be?” “Who really knows where they SHOULD be?” I wanted to strangle the guy, but I had to be nice because I was “representing” my friend. Look, buddy, we just want to know if we can park the car and unload our stuff. Time’s a-wasting. After a few more rounds of this nonsense I finally ascertained that yes, this was the place. I run into this type of jerk far too often. Yes, hardy har har, you made your lame joke. Now can we conduct our business? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/18 "2005-08-11T18:42:29Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Maybe the caller was trying to figure out whether to round up some deputies to help capture Frank Miller and his gang. Or lie a coward, a craven coward, or lie a coward in his grave? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/19 "2005-08-11T18:44:16Z")
I did, in fact, mean that “p.m.” means post-meridian, “a.m.” means “ante-meridian”, and noon IS the meridian, so it can’t be either. I have heard very heartfelt explanations for it being both, however (the above example of “12:01 is pm, so 12:00 is, too…” being countered by "the clock goes from 1:00 to 12:59; 1 in the morning is obviously a.m., so 12:59 (eleven hours and 59 minutes later) is, too; noon, being within that time span, is obviously a.m.). I just use “12 noon.” Or noon. And don’t even get me started on “next Saturday…” ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610/20 "2005-08-11T18:48:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes, noon is 12:00 PM. The minute after noon is 12:01 PM, no question about \*ante \* or \*post meridiem \* there, so why wouldn’t the minute before 12:01 PM be 12:00 PM? Per common usage, you’re right. However, “noon” does not refer to the minute before 12:01, but to that infinitesimal moment between morning and afternoon. It is neither _ante_ or _post meridiem_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-noon-vs-low-noon/316610.md?page=2)