# High school band forced to return shirts referencing evolution
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [September 1, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451 "2009-09-01T04:34:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/1 "2009-09-01T04:34:06Z")
[Article here](http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/news/0px-18740-span-font.html).
In a nutshell, a high school band was required to turn in their shirts promoting the fall program because some parents objected to the design, which featured a monkey “evolving” into a man, each with a diffirent instrument, and the caption “Brass Evolution.”
Thoughts? I think the parents were wrong, and at the least should have allowed those students who wanted to keep the shirts.
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### Author:  [@strqwert44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/strqwert44)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/2 "2009-09-01T04:39:20Z")
m’eh.
just another parent advancing the stereotype that people from rural fly-over land are creationists bent on squelching any reference to any product of the scientific method.
i’m assuming by now that both sides have nothing else to do but to continue to yell at the ignorance of the other side.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/3 "2009-09-01T04:42:10Z")
The design theme is actually intended to show the evolution of brass instruments, using the well known descent chart as a template.
Of course it’s an idiotic and ignorant decision. Evolution is not a religious belief. I don’t see how allowing students to reference scientific facts violates anybody’s rights.
It does sadly show just how stupid Americans are becoming that a decided _majority_ of them think that evolution is some of anti-religious statement.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/4 "2009-09-01T04:43:50Z")
The parents are control freaks who want to enforce ignorance, that’s what’s going on.
> [@](#):
>
> “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”
Yeah, and while you are at it demand that the school remove all globes of the Earth, because we wouldn’t want to imply that the Earth might not be flat, right?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/5 "2009-09-01T04:48:46Z")
How moronic. Why don’t these people give up on evolution and try protesting some other scientific advances like electricity or collective agriculture?
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/6 "2009-09-01T04:53:10Z")
From the article:
> [@](#):
>
> Pollitt said the district is required by law to remain neutral where religion is concerned.
Someone needs to explain to this school administrator that the concept of evolution is a matter of science, not a matter of religion. Public schools do not have money to throw away like this.
And no one is suggesting that monkeys and early man played brass instruments either.
Why can’t these people reason? There is no law against evolution being taught at school. It was the Creationists and the supporters of “Intelligent Design” who lost their court battles to have their ideas considered as part of a science curriculum.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/7 "2009-09-01T05:14:53Z")
It’s because they believe that being “for” evolution means you’re **Der Trihs**. It sort of makes sense, then, that they think that evolution is a matter of religion (assuming, of course, they don’t think that believing in evolution _in of itself_ is religion, but they very well could).
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### Author:  [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/8 "2009-09-01T05:20:13Z")
If anyone wants to know what makes me t[eeth-chatteringly, bone-chillingly scared](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528502), stories like this are it.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/9 "2009-09-01T05:22:49Z")
> [@Zoe](#):
>
> Someone needs to explain to this school administrator that the concept of evolution is a matter of science, not a matter of religion.
I would say somebody needs to explain that to the complaining parents first, because school administrators (and most other bureaucrats in particular and people in general) would rather cave to the crazies than stand up to people who can make life unpleasant for them.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/10 "2009-09-01T05:39:03Z")
Haven’t these people seen _Footloose_? Don’t they realize this could lead to dancing?
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/11 "2009-09-01T06:00:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”
Oh I don’t think they need to worry about that.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/12 "2009-09-01T08:38:21Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#):
>
> Oh I don’t think they need to worry about that.
I’m glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I read this.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/13 "2009-09-01T08:52:41Z")
> [@Leaper](#):
>
> It’s because they believe that being “for” evolution means you’re **Der Trihs**.
Charming.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/14 "2009-09-01T11:36:23Z")
Mind-numbingly foolish decision. Not sure what the topic for debate is, actually.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/15 "2009-09-01T11:38:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Mind-numbingly foolish decision. Not sure what the topic for debate is, actually.
“Yes, they’re all fools gentlemen. But the question remains; what KIND of fools are they?” – Gary Larson, _Far Side_.
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### Author:  [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interconnected_Series_of_Tubes)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/16 "2009-09-01T18:26:31Z")
Conversely, if for example somebody wears a shirt with, for example, a picture of the earth with the caption “God’s perfect work” am I then allowed to complain and get it banned, as well?
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### Author:  [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/17 "2009-09-01T18:32:49Z")
All I know is I clicked the link thinking “please don’t be MO” and _bam_ Sedalia, MO. \
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/18 "2009-09-01T18:35:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> “what KIND of fools are they?”
Who never fell in lo-o-ove …
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### Author:  [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/19 "2009-09-01T18:44:47Z")
Umm… aren’t monkeys and humans on different branches of primate evolution? So the parents would be entirely correct. Albeit for the wrong reasons.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/20 "2009-09-01T18:45:45Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#):
>
> Conversely, if for example somebody wears a shirt with, for example, a picture of the earth with the caption “God’s perfect work” am I then allowed to complain and get it banned, as well?
Well, it’s not that someone was wearing the T-Shirts so much that the school itself made and distributed them to promote the Band Program, so I’d say that if they made a religious T-Shirt under the same circumstances, people would be right to complain, as the school would be endorsing religion.
But evolution isn’t a religion (and in any case, the shirts weren’t so much endorsing evolution as simply referencing it), so the parents were silly to complain, and the school silly to give into their complaints.
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