# High school band forced to return shirts referencing evolution
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [September 1, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451 "2009-09-01T04:34:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/21 "2009-09-01T18:48:52Z")
> [@Quartz](#):
>
> Umm… aren’t monkeys and humans on different branches of primate evolution? So the parents would be entirely correct. Albeit for the wrong reasons.
We’ve talked about this one a few times on the SDMB. The class of monkeys only makes taxonomic sense if it includes apes, and the class of apes only makes taxonomic sense if it includes humans. So humans all descended from apes, and apes all descended from monkeys. It’s just that the monkeys we descended from are not the monkeys living now, but monkeys living many millions of years ago.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/22 "2009-09-01T18:51:51Z")
> [@Simplicio](#):
>
> … (and in any case, the shirts weren’t so much endorsing evolution as simply referencing it) …
Yes. If they had a T-shirt with the message “Band is my religion” I would think that perfectly acceptable under the First Amendment. No one would think that established Band as a state religion, or seriously put down religion in any way. It would be just making a humorous reference to religion.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/23 "2009-09-01T19:09:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”
That quote just jumped off the page at me. Ouch. The stupid, it burns.
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/24 "2009-09-01T20:18:10Z")
They are certainly idiots. But you know, I’ve come to realize that this one problem with the Internet – now one goofball school out in nowheresville does something ridiculous, and all of us are up in arms! Is it really that important? I’ve decided that for me, the answer is no.
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### Author:  [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/25 "2009-09-01T20:25:07Z")
> [@Zoe](#):
>
> And no one is suggesting that monkeys and early man played brass instruments either.
Obviously. [Ukulele](http://www.totallysavage.com/monkey_guitar.jpg), on the other hand…
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/26 "2009-09-01T20:54:34Z")
> [@suranyi](#):
>
> They are certainly idiots. But you know, I’ve come to realize that this one problem with the Internet – now one goofball school out in nowheresville does something ridiculous, and all of us are up in arms! Is it really that important? I’ve decided that for me, the answer is no.
Considering how widespread belief in creationism is, and how it’s followers always try to push it on everyone else , yes I think it’s important. Especially in a forum with a tagline about “fighting ignorance”; this is one of the pervasive forms of ignorance out there.
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### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/27 "2009-09-01T21:31:47Z")
> [@suranyi](#):
>
> They are certainly idiots. But you know, I’ve come to realize that this one problem with the Internet – now one goofball school out in nowheresville does something ridiculous, and all of us are up in arms! Is it really that important? I’ve decided that for me, the answer is no.
It beats daytime TV.
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### Author:  [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/28 "2009-09-02T00:04:35Z")
The funny thing is, the shirts didn’t promote evolution anyway, so even if it were a religious thing it would still be neutral. It only proves that these morons are only interested in suppressing any ideas that they don’t like. Frankly that’s even more disgusting than their ignorance of science.
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### Author:  [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/29 "2009-09-02T00:13:40Z")
The brass did NOT evolve. They sprang perfectly formed from the mind of [Sax](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxhorn). 😃
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/30 "2009-09-02T00:16:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Considering how widespread belief in creationism is, and how it’s followers always try to push it on everyone else , yes I think it’s important. Especially in a forum with a tagline about “fighting ignorance”; this is one of the pervasive forms of ignorance out there.
You’re not fighting anyone’s ignorance – we all think the school is a bunch of nitwits. All you’re doing is driving yourself crazy.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/31 "2009-09-02T00:32:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Charming.
Really? I didn’t think you’d take offense to that. I mean, you DO despise religion and the religious, especially Christians. You don’t make any bones about it. And those who’re “against” evolution think that the, uh, “pro-evolutionists” hate religion, and them. I think it’s a perfectly apt comparison.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/32 "2009-09-02T00:34:06Z")
I’m actually surprised that ALL of the kids returned the shirts. I’d have kept mine.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/33 "2009-09-02T00:35:13Z")
So neuturality means you can’t express an opinion. _Facepalm_
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/34 "2009-09-02T00:43:23Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> So neuturality means you can’t express an opinion. _Facepalm_
Care to elaborate?
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/35 "2009-09-02T01:01:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Care to elaborate?
Evolution is a proven scientific theory and attempting to consider a religious/political issue doesn’t make sense anymore then banning someone from wearing a shirt with the Globe on it since it’s opposed to Flat Earthers.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/36 "2009-09-02T01:02:52Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> Evolution is a proven scientific theory and attempting to consider a religious/political issue doesn’t make sense anymore then banning someone from wearing a shirt with the Globe on it since it’s opposed to Flat Earthers.
Thank you.
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### Author:  [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/37 "2009-09-02T01:12:54Z")
> [@suranyi](#):
>
> You’re not fighting anyone’s ignorance – we all think the school is a bunch of nitwits. All you’re doing is driving yourself crazy.
Or entertaining ourselves with their stupidity. Sometimes it really has more to do with the “watching the train wreck and pointing and laughing” value than fighting ignorance.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/38 "2009-09-02T01:27:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#):
>
> Umm… aren’t monkeys and humans on different branches of primate evolution? So the parents would be entirely correct. Albeit for the wrong reasons.
They weren’t complaining because the shirts were technically inaccurate, they got the shirts returned because OMG EVILUTION!
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/39 "2009-09-02T02:19:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> How moronic. Why don’t these people give up on evolution and try protesting some other scientific advances like electricity or collective agriculture?
Movable Printed Type!? We must keep this from the serfs, lest they gain literacy and threaten the Landed Gentry! 😃
What amazes me is that the US is (as far as I know), the _only_ “civilised” country where there are significant numbers of people who not only believe that Creationism is an accurate account of how everything got started, but they also publicly declare that “fact”, AND they try and suppress the modern, scientifically approved & generally regarded as fact by the rest of the planet version from other people.
And the US wonders why the rest of the planet has such a low collective opinion of some of its constituent states…
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-band-forced-to-return-shirts-referencing-evolution/508451/40 "2009-09-02T02:21:21Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#):
>
> The brass did NOT evolve. They sprang perfectly formed from the mind of [Sax](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxhorn). 😃
Well, they probably don’t approve of sax education either.
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