# High School Caucasian Club deemed 'culturally insensitive' by NAACP-double standard? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555 "2003-11-11T05:15:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/221 "2003-11-14T01:47:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferrous \* > \*\*So suggesting that a white person might want to purchase a higher SPF sunscreen than a black person is racist? Or to recommend different hair care products to a black person than you would a white person? For a medical professionals to note differing incidences of things like heart disease and sickle-cell disease in persons of different races, and adjust care accordingly? > > That’s nonsense. Of course there are differences between people of various races, based on both physical characteristics and historic and socioeconomic background. Some are trivial, and some not so. That’s not to say that any one race is superior to another, but to ignore the obvious fact of those differences, and the fact that they may possibly require race-specific actions, is blind foolishness. Simply to acknowledge that there are differences between people is not to say that one type is better than another, or more deserving, or more anything at all. It is _not_ inherently racist, at least not in any useful or meaningful sense of the word. \*\* Nice straw man. We are talking about differing treatment of folks based upon differing physical characteristics, characteristics that are customarily and somewhat inaccurately identified as “race”. You list different physical characterstics and then claim that diferentiating between them is not “racist”, a claim that nobody has made. Again, we’re talking about treatement of people _because_ of those differing physical characterists. Try again on topic, mmkay? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/222 "2003-11-14T01:48:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*What makes you think it’s like this? Do you have a good reason to believe that people who are a blend of immigrant and American-born parents have an eradicated" heritage? \*\* Point of fact, I _don’t_ believe this. I agree that the notion is absurd. I raise the point because that’s the logical conclusion of what some in this thread are saying: that after a certain number of generations have lived here, due to intermarriage with the progeny of slaves, the progeny of postslavery immigrants have effectively had their culture stolen as well. They’re effectively saying that after x generations in America, black people lose their status as immigrants and become part of the teeming mass of culture-raped slavery descendants. Which raises the question: why? Why should those who have descended from immigrants be deemed to have had their culture stolen just because they also have former slaves in their family tree? Doesn’t their immigrant culture remain just as vibrant and alive? \*\* > [@](#): > > No, you just keep belaboring the negative differences betwen black immigrants and native black Americans, talking about cultural ills and whatnot, while downplaying things like 300 hundred years of discrimination.\*\* Dearie, the difference between immigrant and native performance is part of the discussion; it isn’t “belaboring” it to talk about those differences. What you are basically saying is mere disagreement on the causes of those differences equates to calling blacks “mouth-breaking, knuckle-draggers.” Not only is that an abject lie, it is deeply offensive to boot. You are trying to paint me with racial animus that I simply do not possess. \*\* > [@](#): > > I’m sure if a million black Americans rich enough to migrate moved to Europe, you would find that this population tends to be more successful than the European population as a whole. Does that mean Europeans suffer from cultural “ills”. Does that mean black Americans as a whole are wealthy and educated? Or does it mean it’s stupid to compare immigrants to natives? \*\* Look, if racial discrimination is the principal cause of black problems in America, we would expect similar levels of achievement from native and immigrant populations; after all, if whitey’s keeping you down, it doesn’t matter what your socioeconomic background is or where you came from. Comparing immigrants to natives makes sense because it isolates the variable of skin color: if performance levels differ, it must be for some other reason than racism. \*\* > [@](#): > > **Dewey** , do you remember that it was _me_ who mentioned that African immigrants tend to be wealthier than the black Americans stationed on this little rock of ours? I’m not disputing this.\*\* Actually, I went back and read your initial posts and thought they were vague enough that I should give you the benefit of the doubt on this point. Now that you’ve clarified, let me point out your constant flip-flopping on this issue. You continunally switch between saying native blacks are stuck in a dismal pit of underperformance and saying that native blacks are just as successful as any other group, including immigrant blacks. You pick whichever approach suits your purpose for any given post. It is very hard to discuss something with a person who constantly moves the goalposts. Please pick one approach, and stick with it. \*\* > [@](#): > > I’m disputing your assertion that this difference indicates that there is something wrong with black Americans. \*\* Define “something wrong.” I don’t think there’s anything wrong with black people _per se_. I just think there are serious cultural issues in that community that tend to propagate counterproductive viewpoints (all problems are the result of discrimination, academic success is “selling out,” etc, etc, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/223 "2003-11-14T01:57:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > You can’t have a “white” club because it’s racist, pure and simple. If you actually read the fucking thread you’ll see that the other clubs in question are not based on skin color but on culture. \*\* Actually, you’re the only one making the moronic assertation that a black club has nothing to do with color, AFAICT because you’re afraid to face the truth about many of your cherished assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/224 "2003-11-14T02:05:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\* If my great-grandfather had been schooled crappily because of his race or discriminated in employment or lynched without cause, that not only impacted his immediate family, but it also impacts me decades later. Not only do black people today have to deal with the shitna that comes with being black, but they have the burden of that past shitna on their shoulders too. > \*\* I’m gonna have to call bullshit on this one. While blacks and whites in America may have to deal with each other as equal members of a society that has a shameful legacy of slavery in it’s past, unless you are facing the same barriers to education and freedom that your great-grandfather faced, that burden does not rest upon your shoulders at all. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/225 "2003-11-14T02:09:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*That stupid form means absolutely nothing. The terms on the form are not even comparable. It asks for “race” and then lists a bunch of options which, with the exception of “caucasian” cannot be called races. They are broad ethnic groups at best, and in the case of “Asian,” not even that. “Caucasian” is in a completely different category than "Hispanic’ or “African-American.” Just because some moronic, beaurocratic form wants to mis-classify people in such bizarre fashion does not automatically imbue those classifications with any legitimacy. > \*\* Of course, we should use your arbitrary classifications because you say so. That has much more legitimacy than governmental forms. Christ, your debating style amounts to “it’s true because I think it’s true, and therefore you are a moron, racist, homophobe, misogynist, etc. if you disagree with me.” It gets rather tiresome. You won’t concede any point if it doesn’t coincide with your ultra-liberal assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/226 "2003-11-14T02:10:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Nice straw man. We are talking about differing treatment of folks based upon differing physical characteristics, characteristics that are customarily and somewhat inaccurately identified as “race”. You list different physical characterstics and then claim that diferentiating between them is not “racist”, a claim that nobody has made. Again, we’re talking about treatement of people _because_ of those differing physical characterists. Try again on topic, mmkay? \*\* I disagree. We’re talking about keeping racist groups out of schools. The only group which has come up in this thread which solely defined by skin color is caucasians. It is wrong to allow clubs based on skin color. Skin color is only _incidental_ to the community of American slave descendants. It is _definitive_ in the case of “caucasians.” “African-American” is the only group where skin color is even incidentally a factor. It plays no role at all in the case of “Hispanic,” “Asian” or “gay” clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/227 "2003-11-14T02:14:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Creative\_Munster \* > \*\*Of course, we should use your arbitrary classifications because you say so. That has much more legitimacy than governmental forms. > > Christ, your debating style amounts to “it’s true because I think it’s true, and therefore you are a moron, racist, homophobe, misogynist, etc. if you disagree with me.” > > It gets rather tiresome. You won’t concede any point if it doesn’t coincide with your ultra-liberal assumptions. \*\* What did say in that post which wasn’t self-evidently true? Do you contend that “Asian” and “Hispanic” are actually races? Are they skin colors? What did I say that wasn’t obviously true? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/228 "2003-11-14T02:20:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > **Nice straw man. We are talking about differing treatment of folks based upon differing physical characteristics, characteristics that are customarily and somewhat inaccurately identified as “race”. You list different physical characterstics and then claim that diferentiating between them is not “racist”, a claim that nobody has made.** It’s not a strawman. You claimed that treating people differently based on race is racist in all cases, regardless of motive. I simply pointed out some circumstances in which it is clearly not. (And by the way, I’m perfectly aware of the tenuous and arbitrary nature of “race.” But I’m not going to say “that group of characteristics customarily and somewhat inaccurately known as ‘race’” every other sentence. Simply saying “race” is adequate for the purposes of this discussion.) > [@](#): > > \*\* Again, we’re talking about treatement of people _because_ of those differing physical characterists.\*\* Actually, we’re talking about treating people differently based on socioeconomic differences between races, not physical characteristics. Those differences are as real as the physical ones, if a bit harder to define. > [@](#): > > \*\* Try again on topic, mmkay? \*\* Ooh, that’s so cute! The “mmkay” really boosts your argument. I’m gonna have to try that sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/229 "2003-11-14T02:34:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Christ, your debating style amounts to “it’s true because I think it’s true, and therefore you are a moron, racist, homophobe, misogynist, etc. if you disagree with me.” I have not called anyone in this thread a racist, a homophobe or a misogynist. The jury is still out on morons. ---
**Author:** ![Ryle\_Dup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Ryle\_Dup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryle_Dup)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/230 "2003-11-14T03:01:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*That stupid form means absolutely nothing. The terms on the form are not even comparable. It asks for “race” and then lists a bunch of options which, with the exception of “caucasian” cannot be called races. They are broad ethnic groups at best, and in the case of “Asian,” not even that. “Caucasian” is in a completely different category than "Hispanic’ or “African-American.” Just because some moronic, beaurocratic form wants to mis-classify people in such bizarre fashion does not automatically imbue those classifications with any legitimacy. > > You can’t have a “white” club because it’s racist, pure and simple. If you actually read the fucking thread you’ll see that the other clubs in question are not based on skin color but on culture. \*\* Sorry, I could sick of your ridiculous bullshit on page 5 you stuck up sack of shit. You can take your definitions and blow them up your ass, just cause you want to keep asserting the same bullshit over and over ain’t gonna make it true. You’re a racist, fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/231 "2003-11-14T03:09:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I raise the point because that’s the logical conclusion of what some in this thread are saying: that after a certain number of generations have lived here, due to intermarriage with the progeny of slaves, the progeny of postslavery immigrants have effectively had their culture stolen as well If we believe the stats that **tomndebb** presented that the number of African immigrants who have come to this country since emancipation is miniscule compared to the number of native-born black Americans, then it seems common sense would dictate that the native-born black Americans are going to be the “dominant” culture. Your question would make sense if we were talking about populations that were anywhere close to being the same size. Do you have reason to believe that they are? To me, your question is as silly as asking why white Americans haven’t picked up the culture of Russian immigrants. Doesn’t it make sense that the larger culture would swallow up the smaller one, not the other way around? Dearie? > [@](#): > > Dearie, the difference between immigrant and native performance is part of the discussion; it isn’t “belaboring” it to talk about those differences. What you are basically saying is mere disagreement on the causes of those differences equates to calling blacks “mouth-breaking, knuckle-draggers.” Not only is that an abject lie, it is deeply offensive to boot. You are trying to paint me with racial animus that I simply do not possess. It’s belaboring if you fail to use the brains God gave you. You are comparing immigrants NEW to this country with a population of people who have been here ever since this place was hatched. You are comparing people who have never experienced Jim Crow in their history to people who have. You are comparing a population that hasn’t had to deal with three hundred years of slavery with one who has. You are comparing people raised in a multitude of cultures (Nigerian, Ethiopian, South African, Senegalese…) to people who are more culturally homogenous. How could a native-born black person like myself just let that slide without argument? Numerous posters besides myself have given you an answer for why black Americans differ from black African immigrants, and you have dismissed all of them as “poppycock”. You dismissed the point brought up by DtC and me that Americans treat black Africans and black Americans differently as “anecdotal”. When we bring up the impact of centuries long discrimination, you bring up the Jews…another group that immigrated here voluntarily and is predominately white. You continue to talk about the differential between black African immigrants and native-born blacks while seemingly ignoring the fact that the success of black Americans has risen substantially over the past few decades. Then you shoot down the quite common sensical notion that black African immigrants have benefited from the civil rights legacy initiated by native-born black Americans. Even this was preposterous to you. If that’s not belaboring, I don’t know what is. Dearie. > [@](#): > > if whitey’s keeping you down, it doesn’t matter what your socioeconomic background is or where you came from. Even if we assume that discrimination is a thing of the past, as you seem too wont to do–this is a stupid statement. Do you realize that black Generation X-ers are the first in their familes NOT to be born second-class citizens? History–or where you come from–has everything to do with this hijack discussion. The horrible thing about racism is that it leaves a legacy. Even when the faucet is shut off, the water is still there on the floor to mop up. Black Africans who move to this country don’t have water to mop up. Why can’t you see that? Dearie. > [@](#): > > Now that you’ve clarified, let me point out your constant flip-flopping on this issue. You continunally switch between saying native blacks are stuck in a dismal pit of underperformance and saying that native blacks are just as successful as any other group, including immigrant blacks. This is what happens when you keep belaboring a meaningless point without _listening_ to what others are saying. Switching nothing. I countered your “Black Africans tend to be more successful than black Americans” with a statement about how successful black Americans are. Later, I presented a cite that states that black Africans are more successful than Americans as a whole. What are the cultural ills in white America that are responsible for this disparity, pray tell? And doesn’t this question make my beef with your “point” pretty clear? Unlike you, I have tried to use examples, analogies, personal experiences, and actual cites to bolster my loudmouthery and make my point clear to anyone who cares. If you are not following, I don’t know how else to help you. > [@](#): > > I just think there are serious cultural issues in that community that tend to propagate counterproductive viewpoints (all problems are the result of discrimination, academic success is “selling out,” etc, etc, etc). **DtC** touched on this question and you didn’t address it: Why do you think black Americans and not–say, black African immigrants–subscribe to these feelings? Do they have these attitudes for any particular reason? Or do you think they arise due to stochastic processes independent of the history of this great nation of ours? Don’t you think this is an important question to ask if you want to have a discussion about “cultural ills”? Dearie? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/232 "2003-11-14T03:17:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m gonna have to call bullshit on this one. While blacks and whites in America may have to deal with each other as equal members of a society that has a shameful legacy of slavery in it’s past, unless you are facing the same barriers to education and freedom that your great-grandfather faced, that burden does not rest upon your shoulders at all. If a person is a billionare tycoon, chances are his grandchildren are going to be billionare tycoons too. Why doesn’t the reverse hold true? If a person is undereducated, underemployed, and denigrated, chances are his children will be undereducated, underemployed, and denigrated simply because they will be POOR. Doesn’t seem like bullshit to me, unless we’ve been magically transported to the Horatio Algers dimension without me knowing. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/233 "2003-11-14T03:20:53Z")
Sorry. The above is addressed to **Weirddave**. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/234 "2003-11-14T03:30:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*If a person is a billionare tycoon, chances are his grandchildren are going to be billionare tycoons too. > > Why doesn’t the reverse hold true? > > \*\* Because a billion dollars is a tangable asset that can be passed from generation to generation. It’s a thing that can be handed from one person to another. Education and opportunity are intangables, opportunities that are made available to people so again, unless you can demonstrate that because of your skin color you were denied access to education or opportunity as your great-grandfather was, your great-grandfather bore burdens that you do not. You also seem to be saying ( and correct me if I’m wrong ) that black American decendents of slaves face greater predjudice than black African immigrants. I don’t have the slightest idea what hat you pulled this out of but I can assure you that to white folks who are racist “a nigger is a nigger is a nigger”. I have never heard anybody make that kind of destinction when they were spreading their vile poison. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/235 "2003-11-14T03:42:30Z")
Slave descendants face unique _psychological_ disadvantages borne from a specific history of dehumanzation which has _not_ been faced by recent immigrants. It’s not just about episodic racism it’s about how generation after generation of slaves and slave-descendants were conditioned to _accept_ it while immigrants were not. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/236 "2003-11-14T03:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Education and opportunity are intangables, opportunities that are made available to people so again, unless you can demonstrate that because of your skin color you were denied access to education or opportunity as your great-grandfather was, your great-grandfather bore burdens that you do not. Just to clarify: I wasn’t talking about my great-grandfather personally. But are you serious? So what you’re saying is that if you’re poor, your children aren’t poor? So what you’re saying is the old line “poverty begats poverty” is a stone cold lie? I’m not even talking about race anymore, just a basic truth. If a person can inherit the riches of their grandparents, they can also inherit their troubles if they are broke. If racism is the cause of someone’s poverty, then racism will impact his children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. The burden will be lifted through the generations, but it will be inherited nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/237 "2003-11-14T03:52:11Z")
\*\* Dewey Cheatum\*\* > [@](#): > > Look, if racial discrimination is the principal cause of black problems in America, we would expect similar levels of achievement from native and immigrant populations… Hasn’t the point all along been that racial discrimination is NOT the principal cause of black problems in America, but rather it is a product of having culture, wealth, and self-worth denied via chattle slavery and years of socioeconomic oppression ? Either you are not reading these posts or you’re engaging in strawmanship. Or you’re just dense. > [@](#): > > Comparing immigrants to natives makes sense because it isolates the variable of skin color: if performance levels differ, it must be for some other reason than racism. “The man” has not been brought up by anyone except you. Comparing immigrants to natives does not make for good science. What **DtC** and **monstro** keep trying to drive home to you is that the two groups only have skin color in common from an ethnicity stand point. The descendants of slaves became a distinct group as soon as they lost their cultural ties to their tribes and nations. Its not being passed up by cabs or stalked in department stores that are responsible for blacks being disproportionately poorer. The blacks of today are disproportionately poor because the blacks of yesterday were disproportionately poor. Why were _they_ disproportionately poor? Because of institutional racism that made it okay to withhold things like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (and wealth) from people of African descent. It’s not a difficult concept to understand. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/238 "2003-11-14T03:55:48Z")
> [@](#): > > You also seem to be saying ( and correct me if I’m wrong ) that black American decendents of slaves face greater predjudice than black African immigrants. I’m not an expert enough to know whether or not they face the same or different amounts of discrimination. However, I would not be surprised if they differed based on my personal experiences, and based on what I have read. Sure, a redneck racist thinks “nigger” regardless, but I don’t worry about redneck racists. I worry about the person who assumes a man named Olufume will be a harder worker than Tyrone because those “Tyrones have all those cultural ills”…and then chucks the corresponding resume in the gahbage. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/239 "2003-11-14T12:36:40Z")
> [@](#): > > (originally posted by Zoe): It is clear to me in reading some of your posts that you have very little longterm exposure to the day-to-day lives of non-whites. Some of you have also resorted to the condescending language of someone who knows that is all he has left. It stands out like a sore thumb. > [@](#): > > **Cerri** Was that directed at me? If so, it is clear to me, that you know nothing about me, my background, or who any of my friends are, much less any exposure I’ve had to them. Why would you think that was directed at you? I’m glad to know that you are not racially isolated as some of the posters here appear to be. Even though I disagree slightly with your point of view, I _don’t_ sense that your posts spring from ignorance or maliciousness. > [@](#): > > **Dewey** : Comparing immigrants to natives makes sense because it isolates the variable of skin color: if performance levels differ, it must be for some other reason than racism. That is still debatable. I have also seen recent immigrants treated with more respect. Please allow me to change just one word. I don’t think you can deny that the result is true, so what do you make of it? > [@](#): > > Comparing immigrants to natives makes sense because it isolates the variable of skin color: if performance levels differ, it must be for some other reason than **race**. > [@](#): > > Weirddave: Weirddave: I can assure you that to white folks who are racist “a nigger is a nigger is a nigger”. I have never heard anybody make that kind of destinction when they were spreading their vile poison. Gee, Weirddave. Not all racists are alike. Some (such as those you have described above) take pride in their racism. At the other extreme are people who aren’t even aware of their racism. It is they who would be generally more accepting of recent immigrants, light-skinned Blacks, those Blacks whose features have traditionally white shapes, etc. > [@](#): > > **Weirddave** : Unless you can demonstrate that because of your skin color you were denied access to education or opportunity as your great-grandfather was, your great-grandfather bore burdens that you do not. Do you honestly think that there is racial equity in the work place? In politics? In the justice system? ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/240 "2003-11-14T14:25:50Z")
**Zoe** , you’d been referring to something I’d been talking about immediately preceding that statement, so I was worried it was referring to me. =) Glad it wasn’t me you were referring to…I love to debate, but I hate arguing. _grin_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555.md?page=13)