# High School Caucasian Club deemed 'culturally insensitive' by NAACP-double standard? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555 "2003-11-11T05:15:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/21 "2003-11-11T06:39:20Z")
I’m with **D the C**. _Maybe_ it’s time to question whether other racial associations are necessary (though I kind of doubt it, just yet). But the idea that white people (and I’m one, BTW) need a club to promote their welfare (or whatever…what _is_ the justification for the thing?) is fucking absurd. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/22 "2003-11-11T06:40:36Z")
Who used the word “power”? The girl in the OP was talking about cultural heritage, and identified herself as something of a European mix. I’m still at a loss to understand your chosen digression. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/23 "2003-11-11T06:44:56Z")
there is no such thing as a caucasian “cultural heritage.” 'Caucasian" is not a culture, it’s an outdated racial designation. It is not something that requires any promotion. ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/24 "2003-11-11T06:59:57Z")
Ferrous, I agree, a club to promote their **welfare** is a silly concept, but one to promote a general appreciation of European and Euro-American heratige…what’s so wrong with that? Its throwing a full blanket over the continent, just like groups such as the NAACP do with all blacks being ‘African.’ Not all blacks are African or consider themselves of African origin. A black Flight Lieutenant (equivalent USAF captain) I knew who was born in Liverpool was shocked by how deeply ignorant American groups were. He had tracked his family records back to slavers which had captured his ancestors in present-day Morocco (thus finding although he was ‘black’, his ethnicity was really Arabic.) I’d say to this (again, Diogenes has inspired me) that if you’re going to cast the blanket and say that “Irish” or “Italian” or “German” clubs are ok, then why have groups like the NAACP, or Black Leaders for Tomorrow (a club in my old high school) or the African-American Students Union (at University)? Their groups are created simply on skin color. If you wanted to be really fair and equal (remember, equality means the same value on both sides of the “=”) then you’d have to force individuals to have a “Nigerian” club or a “Mozambequi” club or a “Nambian” club, and thats if you wanted to go by geography instead of tribal heratige. Again, I simply call for an end to groups such as this. They’re rather unnecessary nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/25 "2003-11-11T07:07:08Z")
“African-American” is more than a skin color. It is a specific minority in a specific cultural context. They also face specific issues that white people do not. For centuries, people of African descent were dehumanized and degraded to such an extent that a “black pride” movement was necessary in order to combat deeply enculturated feelings of inferiority within black Americans. White people have never had that issue. European culture is already the dominant culture. It is superfluous to “promote” it any further. It’s like forming a support group for people who have no issues and feel just great. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/26 "2003-11-11T07:08:06Z")
IMHO, school is where our children should be prepared for critical thinking, armed with the knowledge that will enable them to assume responsibility in society. This girl said to herself, ‘Others have groups, why can’t I/we have one?’ Racial and ethnic issues were injected after the fact. Beyond that, **Diogenes** I’d presume that you and I will have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/27 "2003-11-11T07:12:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > White people have never had to demand equality or make a point of their humanity. I guess you’re not including _Irish_ in your definition of _White_. > [@](#): > > That said, I think it’s time to disband clubs for varying ethinic groups in public schools. Why? What’s wrong with celebrating a particular heritage so long as it doesn’t involve demeaning or condemning another particular heritage? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/28 "2003-11-11T07:22:28Z")
I’m with **DtC** here. White is merely the color of our skin. It’s really a stupid pointless waste of time to have pride in that. Heck, if THAT’S going to become the next thing, I’m going to start a “Blonde Pride” club. As other posters have mentioned, being of African descent is an actual cultural heritage. They’re not being proud of their skin color, they’re showing pride in their ancestry, what they’ve achieved. What has white skin ever achieved? Now, (and again, I’ve already been beaten to this, just wanted to add my agreement), if you’re going to show “Irish pride,” or “Scottish pride” that’s one thing. Just based on the color of your skin? That’s dumb. BTW, we’re not even white, we’re sort of PINK or Peach anyway!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/29 "2003-11-11T07:24:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > \*\*Ferrous, > > I agree, a club to promote their **welfare** is a silly concept, but one to promote a general appreciation of European and Euro-American heratige…what’s so wrong with that?\*\* Well, it’s not that there’s anything so wrong with the idea by itself, it’s just so unnecessary. We’re steeped in the Euro-American heritage every day. It doesn’t need a club to promote it. And further, such a club can’t help but be compared to other such clubs, which _do_ have (or had) a legitamate reason for existence, which gives the impression that white folks are oppressed in some way. This is a common battle-cry of some pretty unsavory racist groups, and shouldn’t be encouraged, IMO. > [@](#): > > \*\* Its throwing a full blanket over the continent, just like groups such as the NAACP do with all blacks being ‘African.’ Not all blacks are African or consider themselves of African origin. A black Flight Lieutenant (equivalent USAF captain) I knew who was born in Liverpool was shocked by how deeply ignorant American groups were. He had tracked his family records back to slavers which had captured his ancestors in present-day Morocco (thus finding although he was ‘black’, his ethnicity was really Arabic.)\*\* I agree with that part, although it doesn’t seem to jibe with the rest of your post…is such a blanket generalization useful, or not? (I say not.) What was that quote (no cite, I read it here on the board somewhere) about the American journalist who said that Nelson Mandela was “the first African-American president of South Africa”?:smack: > [@](#): > > **I’d say to this (again, Diogenes has inspired me) that if you’re going to cast the blanket and say that “Irish” or “Italian” or “German” clubs are ok, then why have groups like the NAACP, or Black Leaders for Tomorrow (a club in my old high school) or the African-American Students Union (at University)? Their groups are created simply on skin color. If you wanted to be really fair and equal (remember, equality means the same value on both sides of the “=”) then you’d have to force individuals to have a “Nigerian” club or a “Mozambequi” club or a “Nambian” club, and thats if you wanted to go by geography instead of tribal heratige.** Well, I’m not interested in forcing anyone to do anything. They can have whatever clubs they like. (Although personally, I’d think “Nigerian” clubs, or whatnot, make more sense.) Just expressing my opinion that I think it’s stupid. (The Caucasian Club, that is.) > [@](#): > > \*\*Again, I simply call for an end to groups such as this. They’re rather unnecessary nowadays. \*\* Maybe, maybe not. That’d be a tough case to make. Again, I personally don’t care what groups people want to form, as long as they’re not infringing on anyone else’s right. But I don’t have to think it’s sensible. ---
**Author:** ![sajwalke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@sajwalke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sajwalke)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/30 "2003-11-11T07:38:55Z")
Does it really matter all that much, one way or the other? It’s a high school social club, ffs. ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/31 "2003-11-11T07:41:19Z")
Diogenes, We’re not connecting somewhere here. You state that it’d be ‘ok’ for groups of European decent to celebrate their own heratages (I wouldn’t have such a problem with some sort of legitimate ethnic club like an Irish or Italian or Swedish club) but then state that “African-American” is its own ‘heratage.’ The way I see it, calling something “African-American” or simply “African” is a lazy way of cobbling something together, calling it a heratige, and feeling smug about accomplishing something. There are over one hundred individual languages, and of those, over five hundred recorded dialects of said languages. It is wrong, nay, immoral to treat so many diverse cultural units as one homogenus unit. There is nothing traditionally “African” or “African American” anymore than there is anything traditionally “European” or “European American.” They’re both clusters of diverse cultures, as diverse as the Irish are to the Russians. As I said before, why not a club based on the rich culture of Namibia, or of Egypt, or those groups which live in the Peoples Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly Ziare.)? And in reverse if you were to allow “African” and “African American” clubs, with their blanket ideas, why not European centered groups? I’m sure that many of my black friends in high school had no freaking clue what kielbasa was (its polish sausage, but in the US, ‘polish sasuage’ is not kielbasa) or ckischiki or perogi are. Nor do they know what borcht is or gespacho or haggis is. A ‘eurocentric’ club could have introduced my black friends to these foods. And the music! And dance! My statement is, either all or none. Why not all? ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/32 "2003-11-11T08:05:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*It’s fucking offensive. What is the fucking point of a “caucasian club” anyway? The whole damn country is a caucasian club. > > White people are not an oppressed minority. They don’t need clubs to deal with the anguish of being white in a white man’s world. > > There is nothing more ridiculous or less sympathetic to me than white people whining about imagined discrimination. \*\* Who says that it must have anything to do with “whining about discrimination”? As I understand it, the purpose of most ethnic clubs is to celebrate their particular culture, while teaching others, and learning more about it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/33 "2003-11-11T08:07:20Z")
African Americans have a culture of their own in America. Remember the Harlem Renaissance? Those weren’t Africans, they were African Americans. They lack the memory of their original African cultures, but they’ve developed their own here in America. Hence, the “African American” club/association/whatever. Caucasian on the other hand is simply a PC term attributed to “white people”. There is no unique culture, except maybe “American”. Hence, “Caucasian Club” is an empty phrase meaning nothing. I think if someone started a “Euro-centric History Club” or something along those lines, it might fly and people might be okay with it. But “Caucasian Club” is utter crap if you ask me. It’s like creating a “High School Student Club” in a high school, it’s devoid of meaning. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/34 "2003-11-11T08:29:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by danceswithcats \* > **This girl said to herself, ‘Others have groups, why can’t I/we have one?’ Racial and ethnic issues were injected after the fact.** Ummm…she’s fifteen, not eight. I’m sure she realized the implications of her actions and was well aware of the point she was making. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/35 "2003-11-11T08:43:54Z")
Dunno about y’all, but I find statements like > [@](#): > > If it involves white people, the NAACP is generally against it. to be much more “culturally insensitive” than any race-based club, Caucasian or otherwise. I mean, geez, if you wanna nail yourself up on a cross, at least let me sell you the lumber and nails… ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/36 "2003-11-11T08:55:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > \*\*My statement is, either all or none. Why not all? \*\* First of all, that’s a silly statement. There are no absolutes. No one rule that applies to all situations. It’s ridiculous to say that if we accept one thing in category X, we must accept all things in category X. Discretion is a good thing. And secondly, dude, you’re all over the place here (at least that how it looks to me). First you say that all racial associations should be discarded, then you say that all of them should be embraced. You say that one overarching categorization (African-American) is meaningless, but that another (Euro-American) is hunky-dory. Pick a lane already. ---
**Author:** ![ProjectOmega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@ProjectOmega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProjectOmega)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/37 "2003-11-11T08:59:25Z")
"She had planned for the club to be open to everyone, “a kind of comfortable place,” she said in an interview late last month, where students of all backgrounds could talk about race – with an emphasis on European history – and how her “whiteness” affects those who aren’t white. " Wow, a girl wanting to start a group so she could dig a little deeper into her European heritage, maybe connect the dots down her family line and discuss the amazing history of Europe. SIEG HEIL! Get real. I would have joined a club like this if it was offered. As it is, the only thing I learned in high school history was that Europeans invented war, committed all genocide and oppressed every woman for approximately 950 thousand years and we should all feel really awful about it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/38 "2003-11-11T09:06:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Everyone should know by now; It’s perfectly fine to stomp on white people. Yes, it is, and that is ok. I’m as white as they come (Swedish) and I think it is perfectly fine. Why? Because, as stated, every day is white history day. Every job offer that isn’t Affirmtive Action is pretty much AA for white people. White people have the money and the power. History books are about white history. I don’t _need_ a support group because being born white and male I have pretty much every advantage possible. In every situation that isn’t legislated in favor of some sort of affirmative action I have the advantage. Basically, white people are on top so it is ok to critisise and make fun of them. A joke about a fat whit emiddleaged man is acceptable from anyone, a joke about an ethnic minority is only acceptable if it comes from one. If it doesn’t, it is a mean of opression. Minorities might need the clubs to increas their power, to bring them up to equality. The “ruling class” doesn’t. Isn’t that obvious? If the “Caucasian Club” had as an objective to decrease white influence, have “white shame” days and generally work against the idea of white as a norm then they would be working for equality. And in _reality_ it seems more likely that such a group would just increase racial tension, as well as provide a breeding ground for white supremacists. > [@](#): > > “Some people would say words like ‘racist’ when they see me,” said Lisa, noting that a group of boys, standing too far for her to recognize, called her that word. “Some people would give me a look. Some people would whisper something.” The horror! She must be scarred for life. ---
**Author:** ![TitoBenito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2acd7d/32.png) [@TitoBenito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TitoBenito)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/39 "2003-11-11T09:17:45Z")
I’m ok with Caucasian club as long as it sticks to celebrating Armenians, Geogians, and Azebazhanis (Could look up how to spell it but i’m far far to lazy). Otherwise whats the freaking point? If you want to feel special just remember all the language clubs are for european languages. (Pointless off subject rant) Completely off subject but is anyone else bothered by the word caucasian. It sounds so stupid and pseudoscientific, like I belong in a anthropology museum. “Here is Caucasian Man he lived from the early stone age to … Here is him eating a ham and cheese sandwich with his mate.” Nobody uses negoid and mongoloid these days, so I say we ditch caucasian along with them. Its just an ugly word. Sounds like a feathered chinese guy. Plus there are already people who are caucasian (Georgians, Armenians ect), and stealing their name isn’t cool, its confusing. Lets not pretend race is scientific anymore and just go back to being white. It sounds nicer and makes better puns. White? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555/40 "2003-11-11T09:18:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoneburg \* > **…If the “Caucasian Club” had as an objective to decrease white influence, have “white shame” days and generally work against the idea of white as a norm then they would be working for equality…** You Swedes can be so delightfully stupid sometimes! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-caucasian-club-deemed-culturally-insensitive-by-naacp-double-standard/212555.md?page=3)