# High School..drugs..cops...on the floor! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015 "2003-11-08T02:10:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/141 "2003-11-15T05:43:32Z")
[For all of you in the witness protection program.](http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/business/7216323.htm) šŸ˜‰ > [@](#): > > Two witnesses, Charlene Selby and Randy Blankenship told The (Charleston) Post and Courier about the shooting. > > During the struggle between Wylder and police, one officer was stabbed with a knife, they said. The officerā€™s bulletproof vest prevented him from being injured. An officer fired one shot, hitting Wylder, who staggered to the ground and police handcuffed him. > > Witnesses said officers beat Wylder with their hands and a baton after handcuffing him. And then, they said, there was a second shot. > > ā€œAfter they shot him the first time, they had him on the ground, handcuffed, and were beating him,ā€ Blankenship said. > > Zumalt said based on his conversations with officers at the scene, there was no indication Wylder was shot at or beaten while handcuffed. ā€œPeople will get angry and say they saw things like that,ā€ Zumalt said, adding that one or two shots were fired during the exchange. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/142 "2003-11-15T08:50:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*there is considerable evidence that some high schools are actually very dangerous places. \*\* That does not give the lawmen a right to bust up in there and paint all the students with a wide brush. Here in Jackson, in the inner city schools with their strife and mayhem, honors students ARE there and ARE trying their best. I see this as an erosion of our civil liberties. See my previous post in this thread. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/143 "2003-11-15T08:53:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Moe \* > \*\*But this is the point Iā€™m objecting to. Why do we then assume that the school is NOT safe? > > \*\* THIS school or schools in general? We can all agree that there are SOME schools that are unsafe. Lets seperate these issues. Issue A is the decision to do the raid. Issue B is the raid itself. As I see it, issue A is the problem. As was brought up by several people, there wasnā€™t enough investigation and information gathering before hand. Thus, the raid was ill-advised should have not have been ordered. I can agree with that. Issue B is the raid itself. The thing about raids is that you _always_ assume that there is considerable danger to the officers. To do otherwise could get officers killed. AFAIK, they donā€™t have different rules for raids depending on where they are. They have to bust in, suprise the suspects and totally secure the area. To me, saying the raid should have been handled differently _because it ws at a school_ is wrong and is certainly not the same as saying that the raid shouldnā€™t have taken place because it was a school. Do you see what Iā€™m getting at? Just a guess here, but I think that officers who did the raid were not the guys who _decided_ on the raid. The guys who did the raid did their jobs as they were supposed to. The guys who _ordered_ the raid did not. ---
**Author:** ![Becky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@Becky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/144 "2003-11-15T14:00:25Z")
**Beagle** , youā€™ve got the right case. And yes, the Post and Courier has recently begun requiring registration to view articles ā€¦ sorry about that ā€¦ Explain this to me, please! Chief of police says thereā€™s no evidence to support witness statements that they saw the police beat and shoot the guy, but ā€¦ heā€™s dead! Of gunshot wounds! Did the wounds just magically appear? Did the officers accidentally unholster and discharge their weapons directly at him? :mad: Sorry if this is a slight hijack. Iā€™m just of the opinion that the way the raid was handled is not an isolated ā€œwhoops, we really screwed that upā€ kind of thing, but a reflection of a much bigger and uglier problem. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/145 "2003-11-15T14:02:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NinetyWt \* > \*\*That does not give the lawmen a right to bust up in there and paint all the students with a wide brush. > \*\* They _painted_ them??? Man, thatā€™s just wrongā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/146 "2003-11-15T14:37:42Z")
There is a knife-no knife situation and a one or two shots situation. Moreover, we have a confiscated evidence situation where the police could be defendants. No worries, they rarely get convicted. It sounds like there is a great deal of confusion over what actually happened. If there is/was video, the feds better get down there pronto, before something happens to Fort Sumter. šŸ˜‰ Iā€™m trying to be delicate here. The ā€œbad applesā€ thing suggests to me that the whole force is rotten from the top down. ā€œOne shot OR two shotsā€? What does that mean, Chief? How many bullets are your guys missing? Shell casings, find any? Bullet wounds, did you count them? Any evidence of ricochets? Etcā€¦ Somebody _cough_ the police are hiding something. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/147 "2003-11-15T14:44:32Z")
**Beagle** , are you talking about a different case? Were there shots fired at this school? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/148 "2003-11-15T14:46:39Z")
Becky, Unless you are personally responsible for the, eh, Post and Courier, donā€™t sweat the registration thing (I linked it fergoodnessake). If you areā€¦ Itā€™s just that that article has a lot more stuff and **I** canā€™t get back in, having registered and confirmed. Technology sucks. :mad: Not really. That quote, IMO, ends better than the actual article. I love to leave the reader with a little joke. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/149 "2003-11-15T14:48:31Z")
Older case. Same force? Charleston, represent. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/150 "2003-11-15T15:09:43Z")
I agree that this shitā€™s been happening since the 70s. Also reminds me of the softer, gentler ATF at Ruby Ridge and Waco. Law Enforcement has become much more gestapo-esque over the last 30 years. Criminals and lowlifes beware!!! ---
**Author:** ![FabioClone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5f8ce5/32.png) [@FabioClone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FabioClone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/151 "2003-11-15T16:42:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Criminals and lowlifes beware!!! Ordinary high school students beware!!! It bothers me that many of the people I have discussed this with see no problem with the raid. I suspect if they had been the ones handcuffed on the floor, they might feel differently. This whole thing is clearly not acceptable. You have a violent raid conducted on innocent people for a mostly harmless substance on questionable evidenceā€¦ and some people find that ok? I think there should be a little outrage. Or slight agitation. Or minor discomfort. Or mild indigestion. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/152 "2003-11-15T17:37:30Z")
Given that the police didnā€™t find _anything_, Iā€™m thinking that may be the single cleanest HS in the Western Hemisphere. Since they are all so dangerous and filled with gangs, itā€™s really a miracle. What? ---
**Author:** ![Becky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@Becky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/153 "2003-11-15T23:44:12Z")
Well, the fatal shooting last week involved the North Charleston PD, and the school raid involved the Goose Creek PD. The Snowden case mentioned in the article was also the North Charleston PD, I think (donā€™t quote me on that, though). The whole areaā€™s police have a reputation, especially since the people that get shot for questionable reasons have almost always been black. The school raid also appeared to target the black students. This might give you more information. It is not an unbiased source, being our local City Paper artsy rag kind of thing, but at least you wonā€™t have to register to get at it. [http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/columns.html](http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/columns.html) I also was amazed that they found **nothing, nada, zip, zilch, no pot, no cash, no weapons** after going in the way they did ā€¦ itā€™s the kind of methodology Iā€™d associate with, oh, breaking up a heroin ring or something. The area is known for its low crime ā€¦ seems that this supports that rather than otherwise. AFAIK, most of the local gang activity is in North Charleston, on the northern end of the peninsula. Thatā€™s a bit south of Goose Creek. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/154 "2003-11-16T03:42:32Z")
The ā€œartsy ragā€ adds another useful perspective, IMO: ā€œ70 surveillance cameras.ā€ McCrackin used to suspend honor students for not having their shirts tucked in. The ā€œriding cropā€ part was a nice touch, but not based on enough facts to run with. I liked the part about uniforms, but lacking armbands. The lead really said it all. You could scrap all the opinion, but itā€™s funny. > [@](#): > > ā€œIā€™ll utilize whatever forces I deem necessary to keep this campus safe and clean ā€¦ Iā€™m sure it was an inconvenience to those individuals who were in the hallway, but there is a valuable experience there.ā€ā€”Principal George McCrackin of Stratford High School. ā€œWhatever forces I deem necessaryā€¦ā€ As your attorney, Iā€™d advise you to shut up now. This guy should be fired, and quickly. > [@](#): > > **McCrackin even patted down some of the suspects and questioned them about the money in their pockets.** If only Berkeley County had given him a riding crop and let him throw a few kids to ā€œThe Hole,ā€ George McCrackin would be the happiest man on earth. [bolding mine, heh] Oh, and it ā€œsent a message.ā€ That is, perhaps, my least favorite justification for state action ā€“ ever. Forget about the raid producing the intended outcome (stopping the ā€œcrime waveā€\* in the HS), now it was a ā€œmessage.ā€ If the school has seventy ā€œ7ā€ ā€œ0ā€ surveillance cameras, Iā€™ll bet they have a PA or bulletin boards for messages. \*Nothing. That really is amazing. They had dogs there and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/155 "2003-11-16T04:05:21Z")
Save ā€œvaluable experienceā€ for closing argument, whip out a replica gun, and stick it in McCrackinā€™s face. _bam_ Baliff kills you. Great drama. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/156 "2003-11-16T11:51:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*Given that the police didnā€™t find _anything_, Iā€™m thinking that may be the single cleanest HS in the Western Hemisphere. Since they are all so dangerous and filled with gangs, itā€™s really a miracle. What? \*\* They didnā€™t find _anything???_ Even at seminary school thereā€™d be a few kids holding. Even at the cleanest school in the freaking WORLD, thereā€™d be a couple of kids with a jointā€¦ Unless they _knew_ there was gonna be a raidā€¦ Ya know, itā€™s possible (though unlikely) that the kids set this up. They knew the principal was watching, so they made it _look_ like something was going on. Maybe, just maybe, the kids played the principal AND the copsā€¦ But that would take smart, devious and vindictive kids. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/157 "2003-11-16T12:49:36Z")
Or maybe the druggies are smart enough to keep their stashes in their cars, which have typically not been included in premises warrants for schools, or somewhere outside of the building but easily accessed on the school campus. Or perhaps the drugs being dealt at the school werenā€™t the kinds of things which were held, but taken immediately, like very low level Ritalin deals, a couple of kids selling their prescriptions instead of taking them. Iā€™m starting to sound like a broken record, but oh, the things that mightā€™ve been uncovered with an investigation instead of a breachā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/158 "2003-11-16T13:00:28Z")
Well, I guess the principal could have just rounded some kids up from the bathroom or wherever he thought they were dealing from, and had them empty their pockets and backbacksā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![zenith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zenith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zenith)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/159 "2003-11-16T14:21:19Z")
I agree that the persecution of young people did not originate with Ashcroft. On a sporadic town-by-town basis demonization of youth has always existed. However, it was Clintonā€™s administration that made demonization of youth profitable by opening the federal treasury to all communities that could show a ā€œgrowing and substantial youth crime problemā€. In my town, the police dusted off a seldom-enforced ban on underage smoking. Since each ticketing amounts to an arrest, the town cops could show an ā€œincrease in youth crimeā€ by hanging out at the park across the street from the high school immediately before and immediately after class. Also, disobediance of the town curfew, which used to be enforced via informal warnings, became an arrestable offense. Where formerly the only kids ever arrested were those who talked back to the cop or those caught out a second time in the same night, now all curfew violations go to ā€œjuvieā€. Of course, juvenile courtā€™s and the police departmentā€™s budgets have grown substantially. No gutless wonder of a county commissioner or city councilman ever asks where all the fine money and federal grant money went whenever he is hit up for more money from the general fund. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015/160 "2003-11-16T23:09:48Z")
> [@](#): > > But that would take smart, devious and vindictive kids. His despotism unwittingly, but predictably, spawned a ā€œrebel forceā€ that managed to turn his immense power against him? Future leaders in the war against the machines? So, McCrackin is doing a good job? Or, maybe there really was nothing on campus. I donā€™t think itā€™s healthy to give anyone that many cameras to watch and nothing to do all day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-drugs-cops-on-the-floor/212015.md?page=9)